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My Mother, the Holy Spirit...

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posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: SethTsaddik

Allah T'Allah means God Most High.




posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: SethTsaddik


Allah is God or God Most High. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

But not "The Word"? Nor "The Word" being the Christ Jesus? Nor Jesus being the Begotten Son of the Most High? You are incomplete in your mix of theology as presented by the Nazarene's. That is why you skirt the theology of Muhammad's Islam. If you wish to reconvert back to Christianity I would suggest that you at least learn true Christianity. You may pick and choose that of what you try to pull from the Christian gospels to build your own doctrine but millions of your theological kind have tried to do like wise and have failed just as you have failed. Please stay with your Quran and teach from that aspect. At least that would be more honest than what you have been trying to mix. The Nazarene theology of James is not even in the same ballpark as that of Muhammad's theology.



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: Seede

Are you asking me is Jesus God?

Then, no, he is not. Only God is God.

Jesus was the Messiah. Wasn't crucified either, but was born of a virgin and did ascend to heaven.

Allah/Elohim/God are the same.

Jesus was a created being.



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: SethTsaddik


Allah is God or God Most High. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

But not "The Word"? Nor "The Word" being the Christ Jesus? Nor Jesus being the Begotten Son of the Most High? You are incomplete in your mix of theology as presented by the Nazarene's. That is why you skirt the theology of Muhammad's Islam. If you wish to reconvert back to Christianity I would suggest that you at least learn true Christianity. You may pick and choose that of what you try to pull from the Christian gospels to build your own doctrine but millions of your theological kind have tried to do like wise and have failed just as you have failed. Please stay with your Quran and teach from that aspect. At least that would be more honest than what you have been trying to mix. The Nazarene theology of James is not even in the same ballpark as that of Muhammad's theology.



Why are you so hostile?

What is it to you what I believe?

I was simply talking about the fact that Judaism, Christianity and Islam have the same God. A well known fact you can't stand, that someone should be so bold as to believe differently from you.

I don't allow people to decide my theology, so if you are accusing me of having my own theology within the framework of Islam I take that as a compliment.

Islam is a very diverse religion. What is making you so mad?


It might be because you focus to much on differences than similarities, yet their are far less differences than there are similarities and it's not healthy.

I would rather concentrate on similarities, that is how friendships blossom.

I don't care that you worship a man as God.

You shouldn't care that I don't.
edit on 16-12-2016 by SethTsaddik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: Seede

And I don't have the slightest desire to convert to Christianity, I am very happy with being a Muslim.

Telling me to "stick to the Qur'an" is a ridiculous thing to say. There is no reason I can't take part in a discussion about any book.

Especially the Bible. I am more than qualified to discuss Biblical topics. You just get mad when someone disagrees with you and react by attempting to put people down for being different.



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 01:35 AM
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a reply to: Padawan SethTsaddik

Sorry about the late post, went to Wet n Wild on the Goldcoast and then stopped off at Blackbirds in Brisbane for some tucker. First went there for a work Christmas party a week back. Scored some brownie points for my Girlfriend on that, yesss. Gotta love having a job and money to do these things.

But thank you for reading my posts and responding to me youngling.

Bait taken and devoured.... mmmm num nums.


originally posted by: Padawan SethTsaddik
a reply to: Master Coomba

You seem to have an obsession with me over disagreeing with you in another thread, I don't know what your problem is but you need to grow up and act like an adult.


Padawan SethTasaddik, I do not have obsession with you apart from you being my Padawan youngling. I dont care if you dont agree with me its all about attitude and being respectful to your fellow man.

aka. Who cares what you believe in just be respectful! But I know im talking to a brick wall as your head is full of said bricks Padawan SethTasaddik.

Your one of the most disrespectful people on ATS, you should be ashamed of yourself youngling.


originally posted by: Padawan SethTsaddik
a reply to: Master Coomba
As I understand you have been trying to harass me ever since, not realizing that I don't even read most of your messages and if I do they have no effect on me.


Nope, its only harrassment if you let it get to you. But i know you have such thin skin. Guess thats why your such a welfare government, family and friends bludger. Ohh scrap that friends part, you gotta have them to bludge off them. Given your what 35-36 im guessing your friends have all left you behind for greater things. I feel sorry for you Padawan SethTsaddik.

Maybe if you were a decent person youd still have them!!


originally posted by: SethTsaddik
a reply to: Master Coomba
I could link the page of your nasty comments in Aks thread to show what kind of twerp you are.


You could, but them if you could review your posts in general and see the impertinence of your posts. Such a disgrace Padawan, a disgrace!


originally posted by: Padawan SethTsaddik
a reply to: Master Coomba
Out of courtesy I am letting you know I just don't care. You can say anything you want about me and I won't care or even know,


Sweet, so I dont keep you up at night on the truths I say about you Padawan SethTsaddik. Nice to know youngling.


originally posted by: Padawan SethTsaddik
a reply to: Master Coomba
I don't even read most of your messages and if I do they have no effect on me.


Sure you dont, sure it doesnt! When are you finally going to leave ATS or at least be a decent human being?


originally posted by: Padawan SethTsaddik
a reply to: Master Coomba
You can say anything you want about me and I won't care or even know, because I I only read the comments of intelligent and respectful people.


I doubt your brain could computate what is intelligent, Padawan SethTsaddik. You need to be smart to have this ability, and your lack of respect 99% of the time unless someone agrees with you is astounding. Do you not even understand this? 99% of your comments are disrespectful.

And like i have said many many times in the past... I LOVE TROLLING TROLLS!!! If not show me the post where I have disrespected someone who does not deserve it? Show me or be ever know as a stupid troll with no intellect.


Trolls like you and Padawan #2 and #3. What a disgrace you Padawans are. How about growing up.



originally posted by: Padawan SethTsaddik
a reply to: Master Coomba
Stop making a fool of yourself and have some dignity.


Im only a fool to fools youngling. When are you going to learn Padawan SethTsaddik! Talk about stupitity!!!


originally posted by: Padawan SethTsaddik
a reply to: Seede
Allah is God or God Most High.



originally posted by: Padawan SethTsaddik
a reply to: SethTsaddik
Allah T'Allah means God Most High.


This would suggest there are other gods and your mythical Allah is the most high of them all.

What would the majority of Muslims say about that? blasphemy , yes they would say its blasphemy youngling.


originally posted by: Padawan SethTsaddik
a reply to: Seede
Telling me to "stick to the Qur'an" is a ridiculous thing to say.


Correct as you read all the ancient scriptures dont you Padawan SethTsaddik. Even if it contradicts your current religion.

What was it again. First you were a Christian, then a Gnostic, now a Muslim.... What next Padawan SethTsaddik? What next?

And at every stage you have riddiculed people who dont agree with you and praise the ones that do... Why? Cause you seek attention on the net where you dont in reality, hey.


originally posted by: Padawan SethTsaddik
a reply to: Seede
Especially the Bible. I am more than qualified to discuss Biblical topics. You just get mad when someone disagrees with you and react by attempting to put people down for being different.


This quote is so funny its ludicrous. Yes you understand the bible youngling. hahahahahaha.

I think your five to six hour a day scripture study is really warping your mind Padawan SethTsaddik. I honestly believe this! Take a break, forget about the god crap and get a life!

Thank you for reading my post and responding Padawan SethTsaddik, I much appreciate it.

Love.... Master Coomba
edit on 17-12-2016 by coomba98 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: SethTsaddik


Especially the Bible. I am more than qualified to discuss Biblical topics. You just get mad when someone disagrees with you and react by attempting to put people down for being different.

Master Coomba said it best even though I am also in that report. Yes I am very possessive in my belief and yes I am also short tempered when faced with deliberate half truths from anyone. If a man/woman is honest and presents their theology as their own opinions then I find it most interesting. I love to learn and even the most uneducated can teach anyone something.

I do admit that I wanted your attention and I got your attention by being disagreeable but I have also found that I will never sooth a lying tongue with compliments of any sort. You are wrong in that you presented false information to an open forum and also presented your theology as fact. It was not even theologically factual but very demeaning and disingenuous to say the least.

Now being a Christian at one time, you knew better than to promote a post that claims Islam and Christianity have the same deity. That is impossible and deliberate on your part to try to sell that to readers who may not be as well versed in theology as you are. It simply is not true and I took that ball and ran with it. I posted the basic Christian theology on that issue and you became angry.

With the same theological thought, I also posted that the Spirit of the celestial order cannot be known and it can’t be known. Christianity theorizes that their Messiah Jesus was conceived by their God [known also as The Holy Spirit] into a woman. You agreed that you believe in the virgin conception known as the virgin birth. Quote “Jesus was the Messiah. Wasn't crucified either, but was born of a virgin and did ascend to heaven.: Unquote

Now in your thread presentation you headlined that the Christian God is a mother spirit. This mother spirit [not father spirit] somehow impregnated a woman and the woman then brought forth a terrestrial child named Jesus. Basically that is what you are trying to sell as your theology.

That is not how Christianity works. It may be the way Islam works but it most certainly is not the way Christianity works. I have asked you several times to post sources so that we can see your points of view but have never been given sources in a theological discussion. That is not the way an honest debate can be discussed.

Now most all here, that I have read, are not privy to the Muslim faith and with that in mind I asked you to stay in the writings of the Quran and give sources from the Quran. I did not understand that as being rude to your sensitivity. After all it was you who made the thread and if not within the boundaries of your faith then it would be your own theology. So in that respect I had asked you for sources in the Quran that would verify that theology.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: Seede

a reply to: SethTsaddik


Especially the Bible. I am more than qualified to discuss Biblical topics. You just get mad when someone disagrees with you and react by attempting to put people down for being different.

Master Coomba


You have a Master? Weird. But I don't pay attention to that guy so if you are going to ride his words I have to end this conversation HERE.



said it best even though I am also in that report. Yes I am very possessive in my belief and yes I am also short tempered when faced with deliberate half truths from anyone. If a man/woman is honest and presents their theology as their own opinions then I find it most interesting. I love to learn and even the most uneducated can teach anyone something.

I do admit that I wanted your attention and I got your attention by being disagreeable but I have also found that I will never sooth a lying tongue with compliments of any sort. You are wrong in that you presented false information to an open forum and also presented your theology as fact. It was not even theologically factual but very demeaning and disingenuous to say the least.

Now being a Christian at one time, you knew better than to promote a post that claims Islam and Christianity have the same deity. That is impossible and deliberate on your part to try to sell that to readers who may not be as well versed in theology as you are. It simply is not true and I took that ball and ran with it. I posted the basic Christian theology on that issue and you became angry.

With the same theological thought, I also posted that the Spirit of the celestial order cannot be known and it can’t be known. Christianity theorizes that their Messiah Jesus was conceived by their God [known also as The Holy Spirit] into a woman. You agreed that you believe in the virgin conception known as the virgin birth. Quote “Jesus was the Messiah. Wasn't crucified either, but was born of a virgin and did ascend to heaven.: Unquote

Now in your thread presentation you headlined that the Christian God is a mother spirit. This mother spirit [not father spirit] somehow impregnated a woman and the woman then brought forth a terrestrial child named Jesus. Basically that is what you are trying to sell as your theology.

That is not how Christianity works. It may be the way Islam works but it most certainly is not the way Christianity works. I have asked you several times to post sources so that we can see your points of view but have never been given sources in a theological discussion. That is not the way an honest debate can be discussed.

Now most all here, that I have read, are not privy to the Muslim faith and with that in mind I asked you to stay in the writings of the Quran and give sources from the Quran. I did not understand that as being rude to your sensitivity. After all it was you who made the thread and if not within the boundaries of your faith then it would be your own theology. So in that respect I had asked you for sources in the Quran that would verify that theology.




Though without reading what you wrote I will tell you what I told it:

If you are going to be rude or ignorant I will just ignore the isht out of you and you won't exist to me.

Easy enough?

May Allah T'Allah/God Most High bring you peace.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 03:06 PM
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I don't even understand what the problem is with the Gospel of the Hebrews being considered accurate?

Augustine doesn't denounce it or claim it's a fake, contrarily he defends it saying it should not offend because of linguistic differences, which is according to him why the Holy Spirit was Jesus Mother.

"Divinity has no gender" is what he said, which would equally apply to God the Father, so in a way he is right in that God is neither, but I will add that God is also both.

Such is the complexity of God.

I don't see too many people complaining so I don't think it is a problem with most people. But some people have to register a complaint over any small perceived disagreement.

I was just drawing attention to something that exists in recorded history about Christianity and by Christianity throughout its first 500 years.

Get over it. Not naming names, Seede.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 10:47 PM
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a reply to: Padawan SethTsaddik

Padawan

Im gonna start a thread when i get home about how evil your Allah is.

Just for you youngling.

P.s heres a sneak peak
www.danielpipes.org...

Love... Master Coomba
edit on 18-12-2016 by coomba98 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2016 @ 03:00 AM
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a reply to: Padawan SethTsaddik

Padawan

Apologies youngling some things come up.

Ill do the thread on Allah and his demonic ways tomorrow.

Master Coomba



posted on Dec, 19 2016 @ 09:35 AM
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Though without reading what you wrote I will tell you what I told it: If you are going to be rude or ignorant I will just ignore the isht out of you and you won't exist to me. Easy enough?
a reply to: SethTsaddik
Very sad indeed. Nothing but hate and discourse from your confused mind.

I want to wish you a very Merry Christmas. I hope you approve of that tradition of this great nation which was not founded upon your ideology of murderers and terrorists but instead was greatly influenced by the Father of the Only Begotten Son Jesus. As a guest of this nation I wish you a prosperous life as is appears that this will be your last and only life. Without judgement, of course, but with hope that one day you will reconsider that which you have lost to the one of perdition. Be well and Jesus still loves you and cries at the loss of any that hate Him.



posted on Dec, 20 2016 @ 03:22 AM
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a reply to: Seede

Yeah have a happy Nimrod's birthday too.

I mean ''Christ"mass.



posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 10:40 PM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: SethTsaddik

Many people aren’t aware of the Canaanite history or even how difficult it is to separate an Israelite from a Canaanite based solely on the historical evidence.

Not as difficult and confusing as you'd like it to be.

Deuteronomy 6:4

“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.

Exodus 20:1-3

Then God spoke all these words: 2 “I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 You must not have any other gods besides me.*
*: Or “in defiance of me.” Lit., “against my face.”


For some people, polytheism is easy to recognize and distinguish...
Gods and Goddesses: Insight, Volume 1

Canaanite Deities. Extrabiblical sources indicate that the god El was considered to be the creator and sovereign. Although El seems to have been somewhat remote from earthly affairs, he is repeatedly shown as being approached by the other deities with requests. El is depicted as a rebellious son that dethroned and castrated his own father, and also as a bloody tyrant, a murderer, and an adulterer. In the Ras Shamra texts El is referred to as “father bull” and is represented as having gray hair and a gray beard. His consort was Asherah, who is referred to as the progenitress of the gods, whereas El is placed in the role of progenitor of the gods.

Most prominent of the Canaanite gods, however, was the fertility god Baal, a deity of the sky and of rain and storm. (Jg 2:12, 13) In the Ras Shamra texts, Baal is often called the son of Dagon, though El is also spoken of as his father. Baal’s sister Anath is shown referring to El as her father and he, in turn, calls her his daughter. Hence, Baal probably was regarded as the son of El, though he may also have been viewed as El’s grandson. In the mythological accounts Baal is depicted as assaulting and triumphing over Yamm, the god who presided over the water and who seems to have been El’s favorite or beloved son. But Baal is slain in his conflict with Mot, who was viewed as a son of El and the god of death and aridity. Thus, Canaan, like Babylon, had its god who died a violent death and thereafter was restored to life.—See BAAL No. 4.

Anath, Asherah, and Ashtoreth are the principal goddesses mentioned in the Ras Shamra texts. However, there appears to have been a considerable overlapping in the roles of these goddesses. In Syria, where the Ras Shamra texts were found, Anath may have been viewed as Baal’s wife, since she, though repeatedly referred to as “maiden,” is shown as having intercourse with Baal. But the Scriptural record mentions only Ashtoreth and the sacred pole, or Asherah, in connection with Baal. Hence, at times Asherah and then again Ashtoreth may have been regarded as wives of Baal.—Jg 2:13; 3:7; 10:6; 1Sa 7:4; 12:10; 1Ki 18:19; see ASHTORETH; SACRED PILLAR; SACRED POLE.

The references to Anath in the Ras Shamra texts give some indication of the degraded conception of the deities that the Canaanites undoubtedly shared with the Syrians. Anath is described as the fairest among Baal’s sisters, but as having an extremely violent temper. She is depicted as threatening to smash the skull of her father, El, and cause his gray hair to flow with blood and his gray beard with gore if he did not comply with her wishes. On another occasion Anath is shown going on a killing spree. She attached heads to her back, and hands to her girdle, and she plunged knee-deep in the blood and hip-deep in the gore of valiant ones. Her delight in such bloodshed is reflected in the words: “Her liver swells with laughter, her heart fills up with joy.”—Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by J. Pritchard, 1974, pp. 136, 137, 142, 152.

The extremely base and degraded nature of Canaanite worship underscores the justness of God’s executing a decree of destruction upon the inhabitants of the land. (Le 18; De 9:3, 4) However, because the Israelites failed to carry out that divine decree completely, they eventually became ensnared by the degenerate practices associated with the worship of Canaanite gods.—Ps 106:34-43; see also CANAAN, CANAANITE No. 2.

edit on 22-12-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2016 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic

sounds like royalty ending up as gods

so who's the god God ?

Trinity


"All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah, whom none equals. He who hides his name as Amun, he appears to the face as Re, his body is Ptah"

en.wikipedia.org...

?



"The tempest moves aside for the sailor who remembers the name of Amon. The storm becomes a sweet breeze for he who invokes His name... Amon is more effective than millions for he who places Him in his heart. Thanks to Him the single man becomes stronger than a crowd."

made me think of Jesus on that boat
so sure the weather would clear


edit on 22-12-2016 by kibric because: boo



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 12:21 AM
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originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: whereislogic
so who's the god God ?

See quotations from the bible at the beginning of my comment.



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 07:05 AM
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originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: SethTsaddik

Many people aren’t aware of the Canaanite history or even how difficult it is to separate an Israelite from a Canaanite based solely on the historical evidence.

Not as difficult and confusing as you'd like it to be.


I don't think it is a matter of him liking or wanting it to be, it IS.

.



Deuteronomy 6:4

“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.

Exodus 20:1-3

Then God spoke all these words: 2 “I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 You must not have any other gods besides me.*
*: Or “in defiance of me.” Lit., “against my face.”


For some people, polytheism is easy to recognize and distinguish...
Gods and Goddesses: Insight, Volume 1

Canaanite Deities. Extrabiblical sources indicate that the god El was considered to be the creator and sovereign. Although El seems to have been somewhat remote from earthly affairs, he is repeatedly shown as being approached by the other deities with requests. El is depicted as a rebellious son that dethroned and castrated his own father, and also as a bloody tyrant, a murderer, and an adulterer. In the Ras Shamra texts El is referred to as “father bull” and is represented as having gray hair and a gray beard. His consort was Asherah, who is referred to as the progenitress of the gods, whereas El is placed in the role of progenitor of the gods.

Most prominent of the Canaanite gods, however, was the fertility god Baal, a deity of the sky and of rain and storm. (Jg 2:12, 13) In the Ras Shamra texts, Baal is often called the son of Dagon, though El is also spoken of as his father. Baal’s sister Anath is shown referring to El as her father and he, in turn, calls her his daughter. Hence, Baal probably was regarded as the son of El, though he may also have been viewed as El’s grandson. In the mythological accounts Baal is depicted as assaulting and triumphing over Yamm, the god who presided over the water and who seems to have been El’s favorite or beloved son. But Baal is slain in his conflict with Mot, who was viewed as a son of El and the god of death and aridity. Thus, Canaan, like Babylon, had its god who died a violent death and thereafter was restored to life.—See BAAL No. 4.

Anath, Asherah, and Ashtoreth are the principal goddesses mentioned in the Ras Shamra texts. However, there appears to have been a considerable overlapping in the roles of these goddesses. In Syria, where the Ras Shamra texts were found, Anath may have been viewed as Baal’s wife, since she, though repeatedly referred to as “maiden,” is shown as having intercourse with Baal. But the Scriptural record mentions only Ashtoreth and the sacred pole, or Asherah, in connection with Baal. Hence, at times Asherah and then again Ashtoreth may have been regarded as wives of Baal.—Jg 2:13; 3:7; 10:6; 1Sa 7:4; 12:10; 1Ki 18:19; see ASHTORETH; SACRED PILLAR; SACRED POLE.

The references to Anath in the Ras Shamra texts give some indication of the degraded conception of the deities that the Canaanites undoubtedly shared with the Syrians. Anath is described as the fairest among Baal’s sisters, but as having an extremely violent temper. She is depicted as threatening to smash the skull of her father, El, and cause his gray hair to flow with blood and his gray beard with gore if he did not comply with her wishes. On another occasion Anath is shown going on a killing spree. She attached heads to her back, and hands to her girdle, and she plunged knee-deep in the blood and hip-deep in the gore of valiant ones. Her delight in such bloodshed is reflected in the words: “Her liver swells with laughter, her heart fills up with joy.”—Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by J. Pritchard, 1974, pp. 136, 137, 142, 152.

The extremely base and degraded nature of Canaanite worship underscores the justness of God’s executing a decree of destruction upon the inhabitants of the land. (Le 18; De 9:3, 4) However, because the Israelites failed to carry out that divine decree completely, they eventually became ensnared by the degenerate practices associated with the worship of Canaanite gods.—Ps 106:34-43; see also CANAAN, CANAANITE No. 2.


What you fail to see, though I see you have looked up some information on the previously mentioned tablets.

Is that El WAS/IS the Hebrew God, comes FROM Canaan, as does his consort Asherah and grandson Baal.

The Israelites were Canaanites before they were Israelites and their religion borrowed heavily from the Cannanites.

It was not like they reformed it but continued it until after the second Temple, Persian Empire period.

So it's you TRYING to simplify it, not him trying to complicate it.

I suggest you do some more research, like actually read the English translation of the mythology of the Canaanite religion and it's influence on the Israelites religion.

Which is not minimal. Yahweh was also once the consort of Asherah.

El is the God of the OT AND Chief God of the Canaanites.

Don't minimize historical connections and then accuse people of complicating what you are actually trying to simplify and gloss over.

Because as far as I can see, you don't have the knowledge.

Now before you get angry and try getting combative because I am aware of the impact the Canaanite religion had on Judaism which you would rather deny, it is scholars who made these discoveries and archeologists and to claim that a complex issue is simple is a falsehood that a person who can't handle new historical revelations shedding light on their religion would make.

Fortunately, religious and non religious scholars are not very much divided on the issue and realize that parts of Judaism come from the Canaanites (and Persians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Greeks,etc.) and I don't see them losing faith in their religion over it.

Complex it is. Should it effect your faith or should you for any reason deny or minimize it?

Not at all. It's history.

Meanwhile try finding an English translation of the Ras Shanta texts. There is one, in paperback (that I can find) and is 80$.

Though they were available to read online, partially, it's hard to find now. Luckily I read enough to know that the myths definitely influenced Judaism.

One example is the 70 Sons of El and Asherah each receiving 1 nation each, like in Judaism, and the constant use of the #'s 70 and 72 regarding the choosing of leaders, 70 or 72.

The Elohim, El, Asherah, Baal, Yam, Mot, Shachar.

All Canaanite Elohim that influenced Judaism in religion and language.

Israelites worshipped Baal, it's a part of the Bible.

Asherah was worshipped IN THE TEMPLE.

Until Josiah.

No, not simple. At all.
edit on 23-12-2016 by SethTsaddik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2016 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: SethTsaddik
I just wanted to encourage people to be a bit more skeptical about what you are taught concerning the subject of the God of Israel, Abraham and Isaac, whose name is Jehovah (in English after transliteration and translation just like I did with "Israel, Abaraham" and "Isaac" since I'm talking English here, in 'ancient' Hebrew ca. 8th-9th cent. C.E.: יְהֹוָה , transliterated to the Roman Alphabet: YEHOWAH), not El, or Baal, or Jesus or whatever other god people try to conflate him with.

There's so little truthful information or knowledge in your comment (and without proper evidence for your claims). Try to consider whether the claim that Israelites were Canaanites might be motivated by Islamic propaganda against the Jewish propaganda regarding land rights in modern day Israel and surrounding territories. The claim has no bearing on actual history.

The worship of Baal is constantly condemned by Jehovah and his prophets in the Hebrew Scriptures (a.k.a. OT), not that it helped much cause the Israelites were often disobedient to Jehovah, but not always or everyone. And the true worship of Jehovah nor the Hebrew Scriptures did not borrow from the Canaanites. It reports on it (the Scriptures that is).

I won't get angry or combative for you being tricked by false stories/lies/myths coming from either dishonest sources (teachers) or those who don't know any better themselves, it's too common for humanity to get too upset about all the time. And it nicely demonstrates 2 Timothy 4:3,4:

For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories [Greek: "mythos"].
1st *: Or “healthful; beneficial.”
2nd *: Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”
[don't you like hearing that Israelites were Canaanites? Does it not nicely fit with your feelings towards Jews and their territorial claims and the exodus from Egypt, which you no doubt have been taught also didn't happen?]

Meanwhile try finding an English translation of the Ras Shanta texts. There is one, in paperback (that I can find) and is 80$.

80 bucks man! That's a total rip-off. True knowledge is freely available. You can't buy your way into an accurate knowledge of truth/reality anyway.

Proverbs 1:19-25,29,30

These are the ways of those seeking dishonest profit, Which will take away the life of those who obtain it. 20 True wisdom cries aloud in the street. It keeps raising its voice in the public squares. 21 At the corner of the busy streets it calls out. At the entrances of the city gates it says: 22 “How long will you inexperienced ones love inexperience? How long will you ridiculers take pleasure in ridicule? And how long will you foolish ones hate knowledge? 23 Respond to my reproof. Then I will pour out my spirit for you; I will make my words known to you. 24 Because I called out, but you kept refusing, I stretched out my hand, but no one was paying attention, 25 You kept neglecting all my advice And rejecting my reproof,
...
29 Because they hated knowledge, And they did not choose to fear Jehovah. 30 They refused my advice; They disrespected all my reproof.


2 Cor. 2:17:

...for we are not peddlers of [Or “not commercializing; not making profit from.”] the word of God as many men are, but we speak in all sincerity as sent from God, yes, in the sight of God and in company with Christ.

Regarding Babylon the Great and her shameless luxury mentioned in Revelation chapter 18:

They're not the only ones making a tidy profit.

Your trust (regarding reliable sources of honest accurate knowledge and which teachers and teachings you believe to be correct/true) and loyalty is misplaced, this is your wake-up call (or another one):

edit on 24-12-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2016 @ 01:39 AM
link   

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: SethTsaddik
I just wanted to encourage people to be a bit more skeptical about what you are taught concerning the subject of the God of Israel, Abraham and Isaac, whose name is Jehovah (in English after transliteration and translation just like I did with "Israel, Abaraham" and "Isaac" since I'm talking English here, in 'ancient' Hebrew ca. 8th-9th cent. C.E.: יְהֹוָה , transliterated to the Roman Alphabet: YEHOWAH), not El, or Baal, or Jesus or whatever other god people try to conflate him with.


They were conflated when the Bible was written and assembled once and for all.

Yahweh started as the Baal of Israel or Lord, Son of El Elyon or God/El Most High and one of the 70 Sons.

He was conflated with El and the plural Elohim as well as El Elyon in the Masoretic but in the DSS and Septuagint is still a Son of El.

Asherah was demonized after centuries of in Temple worship, as recorded in the Bible, by Josiah without any complaint from God or the Priests.

Baal was the Canaanites sun God and enemy of Yam. Baal still means Lord in Hebrew, or Prince. Yam means the sea, as Yam was god of the sea. Mot was god of the underworld or death in Canaan and means death in Hebrew. Shachar was the morning star and means Venus.

All Gods were conflated in Elohim, which in Canaanite and Hebrew means Gods or The Mighty Ones, the Host of Heaven.

And it became a name of God, like with Hashem or Adonai, Jehovah.

Elohim and Yahweh were then conflated.

God and Lord. Now they are being deconflated, have been.



There's so little truthful information or knowledge in your comment


I bet!

(and without proper evidence for your claims). Try to consider whether the claim that Israelites were Canaanites might be motivated by Islamic propaganda against the Jewish propaganda regarding land rights in modern day Israel and surrounding territories. The claim has no bearing on actual history.


Muslims didn't inform me of this and aren't concerned really, the ones I know. And my sources are neither Muslim or propaganda but the Ugaritic tablets themselves.

I don't know about propaganda, but Islam didn't exist then. I love to debate with people like you who need to resort to such low tactics as religion shaming, as if I waste my time with ANY propaganda or learn anything other than Islam, from Islam.

Everything else is me. I don't know how tablets from 1200 BC reflecting the origins of the Israelites God and religion, from Canaan, could be considered Muslim propaganda so good luck with that one, but I think it is impossible, know actually.



The worship of Baal is constantly condemned by Jehovah and his prophets in the Hebrew Scriptures (a.k.a. OT),


Because the Hebrews worship him so much.



not that it helped much cause the Israelites were often disobedient to Jehovah, but not always or everyone. And the true worship of Jehovah nor the Hebrew Scriptures did not borrow from the Canaanites. It reports on it (the Scriptures that is).


Well, not actually.

El is a Hebrew/Jewish God that was a Canaanite God and had a consort named Asherah.

El, Elohim or Yahweh that Canaan is the source is indisputable. The "True" Hebrew religion has always evolved and what it was then and now has Canaanite, Egyptian and Mesopotamian influences.

Today Elohim is considered feminine and Yahweh masculine. The "True" religion doesn't exist but there are many religions and Judaism is and always has been diverse and willing to incorporate foreign wisdom like from Persia with the Mazdeins and even Greek philosophy.

Canaan is where it started. And El is still God.



I won't get angry or combative for you being tricked by false stories/lies/myths coming from either dishonest sources (teachers) or those who don't know any better themselves, it's too common for humanity to get too upset about all the time. And it nicely demonstrates 2 Timothy 4:3,4:


I haven't been tricked by anything, don't be ridiculous.

The problem is you only know about the Ugaritic tablets and have ignored their influence on the Bible and Hebrew religion.

But I actually have read a great deal of the actual mythology and the entire Bible and do know the influence it has on the Hebrew religion of the Bible, which is significant.

There are no false stories, not that I have read.

Just the English translation alongside the transliteration. Of the religious myths of Ugarit.

History in stone. Don't be the guy that pretends archeologists have a conspiracy against the Bible, or translators and scholars, because I won't be able to take you seriously.

Can't.



For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories [Greek: "mythos"].
1st *: Or “healthful; beneficial.”
2nd *: Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”
[don't you like hearing that Israelites were Canaanites? Does it not nicely fit with your feelings towards Jews and their territorial claims and the exodus from Egypt, which you no doubt have been taught also didn't happen?]

Meanwhile try finding an English translation of the Ras Shanta texts. There is one, in paperback (that I can find) and is 80$.

80 bucks man! That's a total rip-off. True knowledge is freely available. You can't buy your way into an accurate knowledge of truth/reality anyway.

Proverbs 1:19-25,29,30

These are the ways of those seeking dishonest profit, Which will take away the life of those who obtain it. 20 True wisdom cries aloud in the street. It keeps raising its voice in the public squares. 21 At the corner of the busy streets it calls out. At the entrances of the city gates it says: 22 “How long will you inexperienced ones love inexperience? How long will you ridiculers take pleasure in ridicule? And how long will you foolish ones hate knowledge? 23 Respond to my reproof. Then I will pour out my spirit for you; I will make my words known to you. 24 Because I called out, but you kept refusing, I stretched out my hand, but no one was paying attention, 25 You kept neglecting all my advice And rejecting my reproof,
...
29 Because they hated knowledge, And they did not choose to fear Jehovah. 30 They refused my advice; They disrespected all my reproof.


2 Cor. 2:17:

...for we are not peddlers of [Or “not commercializing; not making profit from.”] the word of God as many men are, but we speak in all sincerity as sent from God, yes, in the sight of God and in company with Christ.

Regarding Babylon the Great and her shameless luxury mentioned in Revelation chapter 18:

They're not the only ones making a tidy profit.

Your trust (regarding reliable sources of honest accurate knowledge and which teachers and teachings you believe to be correct/true) and loyalty is misplaced, this is your wake-up call (or another one):


Blah.



posted on Dec, 24 2016 @ 02:07 AM
link   
a reply to: SethTsaddik
Because the name "Israelite" originates from the bible, we must look to the bible for an accurate view of who is meant with "Israelites", or definition, it's only fair to evaluate the bible in that manner and not invent something of our own who it's supposed to refer to.
Israelite: Insight, Volume 1

(Isʹra·el·ite) [Of (Belonging to) Israel].

A descendant of Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel. (2Sa 17:25; Joh 1:47; Ro 11:1; see ISRAEL No. 1.) As determined by the context, in the plural the term refers to the following: (1) Members of all the 12 tribes before the split in the kingdom (1Sa 2:14; 13:20; 29:1); (2) those of the 10-tribe northern kingdom (1Ki 12:19; 2Ki 3:24); (3) non-Levitical Jews returning from Babylonian exile (1Ch 9:1, 2); (4) Jews of the first century C.E.—Ac 13:16; Ro 9:3, 4; 2Co 11:22.

Israel: Insight, Volume 1

(Isʹra·el) [Contender (Perseverer) With God; or, God Contends].

1. The name God gave to Jacob when he was about 97 years old. ... Later, at Bethel the change in name was confirmed by God, and from then on to the end of his life Jacob was frequently called Israel. (Ge 35:10, 15; 50:2; 1Ch 1:34) Many of the more than 2,500 occurrences of the name Israel, however, are in reference to Jacob’s descendants as a nation.—Ex 5:1, 2.

2. All the descendants of Jacob, collectively, at any one time. (Ex 9:4; Jos 3:7; Ezr 2:2b; Mt 8:10) As the offspring and descendants of Jacob’s 12 sons, they were quite often called “the sons of Israel”; less often, “the house of Israel,” “the people of Israel,” the “men of Israel,” “the state of Israel,” or the “Israelites.”—Ge 32:32; Mt 10:6; Ac 4:10; 5:35; Eph 2:12; Ro 9:4; see ISRAELITE.
...

We can do something similar for "Canaanites" (also originates from the bible) rather than taking our information exclusively from sources that have connections to Babylon the Great and religious and political motives that may interfere with their honesty regarding this subject.
Canaan: Insight, Volume 1

(Caʹnaan) [Merchant Land; Land of the Tradesman], Canaanite (Caʹnaan·ite).

1. The fourth-listed son of Ham and grandson of Noah. (Ge 9:18; 10:6; 1Ch 1:8) He was the progenitor of 11 tribes who eventually inhabited the region along the eastern Mediterranean between Egypt and Syria, thereby giving it the name “the land of Canaan.”—Ge 10:15-19; 1Ch 16:18; see No. 2.
...
...it is likely that Canaan had already manifested a definitely corrupt trait, perhaps of a lustful nature, and that God foresaw the bad results in which this characteristic would eventually culminate among Canaan’s descendants. In the earlier case of Cain, Jehovah had noted a wrong heart attitude and had warned Cain of the danger of being overcome by sin (Ge 4:3-7); God also had discerned the unreformable bent toward wickedness on the part of the majority of the pre-Flood population, making their destruction warranted. (Ge 6:5) The most obvious evidence of the justness of the curse placed on Canaan is thus seen in the later history of his descendants, for they built up a particularly sordid record of immorality and depravity, as both Biblical and secular history testify. The curse on Canaan saw its fulfillment some eight centuries after its pronouncement, when Canaan’s descendants were subjugated by the Semitic Israelites, later coming under the domination of the Japhetic powers of Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome.

2. The name Canaan also applies to the race descended from Ham’s son and to the land of their residence. Canaan was the earlier and native name of that part of Palestine lying W of the Jordan River (Nu 33:51; 35:10, 14), although the Canaanitish Amorites did invade the land E of the Jordan sometime prior to the Israelite conquest.—Nu 21:13, 26.
...
Joshua wisely “did not remove a word from all that Jehovah had commanded Moses” as to the destruction of the Canaanites. (Jos 11:15) But the Israelite nation failed to follow up his good lead and completely eliminate the source of pollution of the land. The continued presence of the Canaanites among them brought infection into Israel that, in the course of time, undoubtedly contributed toward more deaths (not to mention crime, immorality, and idolatry) than the decreed extermination of all the Canaanites would have produced had it been faithfully effected. (Nu 33:55, 56; Jg 2:1-3, 11-23; Ps 106:34-43) Jehovah had warned the Israelites that his justice and his judgments would not be partial and that for the Israelites to enter into relations with the Canaanites, intermarry with them, practice interfaith, and adopt their religious customs and degenerate practices would mean their inevitably bringing down upon themselves the same decree of annihilation and would result in their also being ‘vomited out of the land.’—Ex 23:32, 33; 34:12-17; Le 18:26-30; De 7:2-5, 25, 26.

Judges 3:1, 2 states that Jehovah let some of the Canaanite nations stay “so as by them to test Israel, that is, all those who had not experienced any of the wars of Canaan; it was only in order for the generations of the sons of Israel to have the experience, so as to teach them war, that is, only those who before that had not experienced such things.” This does not contradict the earlier statement (Jg 2:20-22) that Jehovah allowed these nations to remain because of Israel’s unfaithfulness and in order to “test Israel, whether they will be keepers of Jehovah’s way.” Rather, it harmonizes with that reason and shows that later generations of Israelites would thereby be faced with the opportunity to demonstrate obedience to God’s commands concerning the Canaanites, putting their faith to the test to the point of endangering their lives in war in order to prove obedient.

In view of all of this, it is clear that the opinion held by some Bible critics that the destruction of the Canaanites by Israel is not in harmony with the spirit of the Christian Greek Scriptures does not accord with the facts, as a comparison of such texts as Matthew 3:7-12; 22:1-7; 23:33; 25:41-46; Mark 12:1-9; Luke 19:14, 27; Romans 1:18-32; 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9; 2:3; and Revelation 19:11-21 will demonstrate.

Later History. Following the conquest, the situation between the Canaanites and the Israelites gradually became one of relatively peaceful coexistence, though this was to Israel’s detriment. (Jg 3:5, 6; compare Jg 19:11-14.) ...
...
But Canaanite wives later contributed to Solomon’s downfall, the loss of much of the kingdom for his heir, and the religious corruption of the nation. (1Ki 11:1, 13, 31-33)
...
Intermarriage with Canaanites still was a problem among the returned Israelites after the Babylonian exile (Ezr 9:1, 2), but the Canaanite kingdoms, including those of the Hittites, had evidently disintegrated under the impact of Syrian, Assyrian, and Babylonian aggression. The term “Canaan” came to refer primarily to Phoenicia, as in Isaiah’s prophecy concerning Tyre (Isa 23:1, 11, ftn) and in the case of the “Phoenician” (literally, “Canaanite” [Gr., Kha·na·naiʹa]) woman from the region of Tyre and Sidon who approached Jesus.—Mt 15:22, ftn; compare Mr 7:26.
...

edit on 24-12-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



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