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You can be fined $250,000 for not calling people ‘ze’ or ‘hir,’ pronouns if they demand

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posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: kaylaluv

Hey if you miss the target, "penis or vagina" I guess you can always say, "sorry I can to tell what the hell you are".



Or here's a thought: you could politely ask. To hell with manners, though, right?


How the hell do you ask without offending? Politeness has nothing to do with it, and I can see them being offended either way.

As a famous admiral once said, It's a trap!


How so?

Applications have titles to circle and sometimes a line to fill in. Women are often asked Mrs. or ms.? It is NOT that difficult.


It's becoming more difficult with all the titles and labels, not to mention trying not to assume anything.

Everyone should just wear signs, that way nothing has to be said, asked or assumed and we can all just go about our lives


Learning a few more words should not be difficult. In the case of the OP, there is no reason to assume. The article states clearly you will be asked to use a certain personal pronoun. Depending on your relationship with that person it may be legally required or not.

Don;t act like this confuses you to death.



Don;t act like you have all the answers.

Nothing about possibly legislating pronoun use is wrong to you?



That's the part some of you aren't getting. This isn't about "legislating pronoun use". It's legislation against a certain kind of harassment. Repeatedly calling a person by the incorrect pronoun, even after that person has corrected you, is harassment. This legislation is meant to target those who would harass another with transphobic hate speech (which includes using improper pronouns to bully). Read about it more closely and you'll see it's not what you think it is.

Look at it another way. Guns are legal to own. Now... if I introduced a law that said you are not allowed to threaten mimes with guns (let's pretend it wasn't already illegal), would you say that I am "legislating gun use" or would you consider it to fall more in the category of legislating assault or violence?



OK. So therefore under the guise of harassment you legislate pronoun use.




posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:05 PM
link   
The plight of the hairless ape;

Wu am I?



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: kaylaluv

Hey if you miss the target, "penis or vagina" I guess you can always say, "sorry I can to tell what the hell you are".



Or here's a thought: you could politely ask. To hell with manners, though, right?


How the hell do you ask without offending? Politeness has nothing to do with it, and I can see them being offended either way.

As a famous admiral once said, It's a trap!


How so?

Applications have titles to circle and sometimes a line to fill in. Women are often asked Mrs. or ms.? It is NOT that difficult.


It's becoming more difficult with all the titles and labels, not to mention trying not to assume anything.

Everyone should just wear signs, that way nothing has to be said, asked or assumed and we can all just go about our lives


Learning a few more words should not be difficult. In the case of the OP, there is no reason to assume. The article states clearly you will be asked to use a certain personal pronoun. Depending on your relationship with that person it may be legally required or not.

Don;t act like this confuses you to death.



Don;t act like you have all the answers.

Nothing about possibly legislating pronoun use is wrong to you?


I don't have all the answers. I am trying to give a reasonable response.

I wouldn't want it legislated any further than what I stated before :

If someone I had a professional relationship with kept addressing me with 'Mister' and I asked them repeatedly to not do so and told them my preferred title and they would not stop, it would be harassment.

I am obviously a Ms., Miss or Mrs. If a different person said 10x, "I am a Zie" it should sink in, even if the word is not common.


Well if you look like a woman (feminine as opposed to hairy smelly man) I don't see why someone would call you Mister.

That has nothing to do with whatever the hell Zie means.


But if they do, it is harassment. It certainly does. If someone has chosen a different pronoun, and you are told what that is, yet refuse to use it when referring to them and use one they do not identify with, it is harassment.

If you don;t think so, I will from this point forward, address you as Miss Wardaddy. If I become your employer or we somehow form a professional relationship, I will be fined. As I should be for being a dumbazz.
edit on 5-12-2016 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:07 PM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
If I saw a Tranny as a courtesy I would call her she but the second anyone demanded or even asked me to call them some nonsensical made up term id just call them "F*** off moron" and move away, I try to spend as little time around crazy people as possible


Gender neutral pronouns aren't made up terms. The projections are that within 20-30 years English won't be using his/hers/etc... anymore anyways, it will all be gender neutral.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:07 PM
link   
Don't know if this was covered in the first few pages, but this is not new.



In 1789, William H. Marshall records the existence of a dialectal English epicene pronoun, singular "ou": "'Ou will' expresses either he will, she will, or it will." Marshall traces "ou" to Middle English epicene "a", used by the 14th century English writer John of Trevisa, and both the OED and Wright's English Dialect Dictionary confirm the use of "a" for he, she, it, they, and even I. This "a" is a reduced form of the Anglo-Saxon he = "he" and heo = "she". en.wikipedia.org...


Also Spivak



The Spivak pronouns are a set of gender-neutral pronouns in English promulgated on LambdaMOO based on pronouns used by Michael Spivak. Though not in widespread use, they have been employed in writing for gender-neutral language by those who dislike the standard terms "he/she" or singular they. en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: kaylaluv

Hey if you miss the target, "penis or vagina" I guess you can always say, "sorry I can to tell what the hell you are".



Or here's a thought: you could politely ask. To hell with manners, though, right?


How the hell do you ask without offending? Politeness has nothing to do with it, and I can see them being offended either way.

As a famous admiral once said, It's a trap!


How so?

Applications have titles to circle and sometimes a line to fill in. Women are often asked Mrs. or ms.? It is NOT that difficult.


It's becoming more difficult with all the titles and labels, not to mention trying not to assume anything.

Everyone should just wear signs, that way nothing has to be said, asked or assumed and we can all just go about our lives


Learning a few more words should not be difficult. In the case of the OP, there is no reason to assume. The article states clearly you will be asked to use a certain personal pronoun. Depending on your relationship with that person it may be legally required or not.

Don;t act like this confuses you to death.



Don;t act like you have all the answers.

Nothing about possibly legislating pronoun use is wrong to you?


I don't have all the answers. I am trying to give a reasonable response.

I wouldn't want it legislated any further than what I stated before :

If someone I had a professional relationship with kept addressing me with 'Mister' and I asked them repeatedly to not do so and told them my preferred title and they would not stop, it would be harassment.

I am obviously a Ms., Miss or Mrs. If a different person said 10x, "I am a Zie" it should sink in, even if the word is not common.


Well if you look like a woman (feminine as opposed to hairy smelly man) I don't see why someone would call you Mister.

That has nothing to do with whatever the hell Zie means.


But if they do, it is harassment. It certainly does. If someone has chosen a different pronoun, and you are told what that is, yet refuse to use it when referring to them and use one they do not identify with, it is harassment.

If you don;t think so, I will from this point forward, address you as Miss Wardaddy. If I become your employer or we somehow form a professional relationship, I will be fined. As I should be for being a dumbazz.


You can call me whatever you want, it doesn't change anything and I'd just go around assuming you were a moron


And that's fascism. Let the company handle it as they've always done.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:10 PM
link   
a reply to: Abysha

Its a law that's likely to get abused. Harassment is harassment regardless.
Your example is wrong.

The law says shooting someone is illegal
Then making another law where shooting a very special person is also illegal but with an extra fine on top.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee
Don't know if this was covered in the first few pages, but this is not new.



In 1789, William H. Marshall records the existence of a dialectal English epicene pronoun, singular "ou": "'Ou will' expresses either he will, she will, or it will." Marshall traces "ou" to Middle English epicene "a", used by the 14th century English writer John of Trevisa, and both the OED and Wright's English Dialect Dictionary confirm the use of "a" for he, she, it, they, and even I. This "a" is a reduced form of the Anglo-Saxon he = "he" and heo = "she". en.wikipedia.org...


Also Spivak



The Spivak pronouns are a set of gender-neutral pronouns in English promulgated on LambdaMOO based on pronouns used by Michael Spivak. Though not in widespread use, they have been employed in writing for gender-neutral language by those who dislike the standard terms "he/she" or singular they. en.wikipedia.org...


It's not new and it didn't catch on, so what's your point?



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: jonnywhite

I really think it has to do with people deliberately and knowingly using the wrong pronoun in order to bully someone, and it needs to happen multiple times for there to be any case. Someone forgetting once and apologizing for it won't have a problem.


It might have been a gender neutral person, but I can't remember.
edit on 12/5/2016 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:12 PM
link   
a reply to: Annee

So ppl didn't give half a crap back then either?

I am literally shocked, l i t e r a l l y shhhawked.
edit on 5-12-2016 by Lysergic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: kaylaluv

Hey if you miss the target, "penis or vagina" I guess you can always say, "sorry I can to tell what the hell you are".



Or here's a thought: you could politely ask. To hell with manners, though, right?


How the hell do you ask without offending? Politeness has nothing to do with it, and I can see them being offended either way.

As a famous admiral once said, It's a trap!


How so?

Applications have titles to circle and sometimes a line to fill in. Women are often asked Mrs. or ms.? It is NOT that difficult.


It's becoming more difficult with all the titles and labels, not to mention trying not to assume anything.

Everyone should just wear signs, that way nothing has to be said, asked or assumed and we can all just go about our lives


Learning a few more words should not be difficult. In the case of the OP, there is no reason to assume. The article states clearly you will be asked to use a certain personal pronoun. Depending on your relationship with that person it may be legally required or not.

Don;t act like this confuses you to death.



Don;t act like you have all the answers.

Nothing about possibly legislating pronoun use is wrong to you?


I don't have all the answers. I am trying to give a reasonable response.

I wouldn't want it legislated any further than what I stated before :

If someone I had a professional relationship with kept addressing me with 'Mister' and I asked them repeatedly to not do so and told them my preferred title and they would not stop, it would be harassment.

I am obviously a Ms., Miss or Mrs. If a different person said 10x, "I am a Zie" it should sink in, even if the word is not common.


Well if you look like a woman (feminine as opposed to hairy smelly man) I don't see why someone would call you Mister.

That has nothing to do with whatever the hell Zie means.


But if they do, it is harassment. It certainly does. If someone has chosen a different pronoun, and you are told what that is, yet refuse to use it when referring to them and use one they do not identify with, it is harassment.

If you don;t think so, I will from this point forward, address you as Miss Wardaddy. If I become your employer or we somehow form a professional relationship, I will be fined. As I should be for being a dumbazz.


You can call me whatever you want, it doesn't change anything and I'd just go around assuming you were a moron


And that's fascism. Let the company handle it as they've always done.



It's not fascism. It's inappropriate and a jurisdiction also determined it is a fineable offense in certain circumstances.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: reldra

The word fat should be banned too even tho I'm not actually fat.

The word "fat" brings me back traumatizing psychological memories of an alternative universe I was thinking about how the other day in of which I was actually an obese person.

Or maybe I'm the soul an obese person inside a smaller persons body.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:12 PM
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Demanding under threat of massive fines that I call you something other than he or she virtually guarantees I'll call you a f**king moron, for starters, then everything after that will most assuredly be offensive.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:13 PM
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a reply to: reldra

Because I thank God that I don't think like you and others on this site!



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:14 PM
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originally posted by: omniEther
a reply to: reldra

The word fat should be banned too even tho I'm not actually fat.

The word "fat" brings me back traumatizing psychological memories of an alternative universe I was thinking about how the other day in of which I was actually an obese person.

Or maybe I'm the soul an obese person inside a smaller persons body.


If an employer calls you fat over and over, you have a legal case..fat or not. See how that works?



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:15 PM
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originally posted by: ShadowLink
Demanding under threat of massive fines that I call you something other than he or she virtually guarantees I'll call you a f**king moron, for starters, then everything after that will most assuredly be offensive.


If you are that person's employer or in business with them, I hope you have 250k.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:16 PM
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originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: reldra

Because I thank God that I don't think like you and others on this site!


I am not quite sure God...and especially Jesus...would go along with your thoughts.

but you have a blessed day.
edit on 5-12-2016 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:17 PM
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a reply to: reldra

What this boils down to is someone figuring out how much money
they can get from getting their feelings hurt.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:17 PM
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originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: reldra

What this boils down to is someone figuring out how much money
they can get from getting their feelings hurt.


No, it is not. You clearly did not read the article.

The fine includes INTENT and REPETITIVELY and a business relationship.

You would have to do it on PURPOSE over and over to be fined.
edit on 5-12-2016 by reldra because: (no reason given)


I cannot help those that lack reading comprehension skills.
edit on 5-12-2016 by reldra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:21 PM
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I'll just avoid those situations. Being around people I know to be very litigious makes me nervous.



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