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As he promised, Trump's tax plan helps the middle-class...

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posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:08 AM
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... it just helps the upper class and 1% elites a lot more.



Using "dynamic scoring" estimates Republicans favor, the more conservative Tax Foundation still shows the greatest benefits at the top. In the Foundation's model, the lowest 20 percent of taxpayers would see after-tax incomes rise by 6.9 percent to 8.1 percent, depending on how the Trump administration resolves ambiguities about some features of its plan.

The middle 20 percent would get 7.7 percent to 9 percent. The top 20 percent would get 8.7 percent to 12.3 percent, and the top 1 percent would see a 12.2 percent-19.9 percent boost in after-tax income.


So where is the support for the middle/working class he promised? Did we all just not read between the lines? Was what he was really saying more like 'I'm going to help the working class. But I'm going to help the One-Percenters a lot more.' Is this what people expected from his campaign rhetoric?

As a disclaimer, I did not support nor did I vote for either HRC or Trump. I did read 'The Art of the Deal' and to me, Trump's entire campaign was just an execution of the business strategy laid-out in that book. So, were the American people snookered?

And for the love of God and all things righteous, please don't embarrass yourself with 'But Hillary...'. This isn't about Hillary, The Clintons, Obama or anyone else. This is about Trump's tax plan.




posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:12 AM
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originally posted by: jtma508
... it just helps the upper class and 1% elites a lot more.



Using "dynamic scoring" estimates Republicans favor, the more conservative Tax Foundation still shows the greatest benefits at the top. In the Foundation's model, the lowest 20 percent of taxpayers would see after-tax incomes rise by 6.9 percent to 8.1 percent, depending on how the Trump administration resolves ambiguities about some features of its plan.

The middle 20 percent would get 7.7 percent to 9 percent. The top 20 percent would get 8.7 percent to 12.3 percent, and the top 1 percent would see a 12.2 percent-19.9 percent boost in after-tax income.


So where is the support for the middle/working class he promised? Did we all just not read between the lines? Was what he was really saying more like 'I'm going to help the working class. But I'm going to help the One-Percenters a lot more.' Is this what people expected from his campaign rhetoric?

As a disclaimer, I did not support nor did I vote for either HRC or Trump. I did read 'The Art of the Deal' and to me, Trump's entire campaign was just an execution of the business strategy laid-out in that book. So, were the American people snookered?

And for the love of God and all things righteous, please don't embarrass yourself with 'But Hillary...'. This isn't about Hillary, The Clintons, Obama or anyone else. This is about Trump's tax plan.


Generally speaking, any tax cut is going to favor the wealthy as it is the wealthy that pay the most in taxes. It is basic math. You can't get a tax cut if you already aren't paying taxes.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

That's how percentages work? Interesting... we must have taken different math classes
.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

The middle class pays taxes.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:17 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Unlike the 1% that are getting the biggest breaks.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:19 AM
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originally posted by: Edumakated
You can't get a tax cut if you already aren't paying taxes.


You mean Trump won't get a tax cut?



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Yes you can absolutely cut taxes for different groups of people based on their earnings. For example, millionaires do not need a tax cut to make their resulting after tax earnings seem worth working for. A person who has diligently stayed in work since leaving school, or even leaving university, but is living in their car because all they can get are three extremely poorly paid jobs (which does happen quite a bit, and is not a statistical anomaly) however, WILL need a tax cut, in order to see benefit from their work. And so will the family man whose real terms earnings are not keeping up with the inflation of the cost of living, to the detriment of himself, his spouse, his children and potentially the marriage that binds the parents and the stability of the household entire.


edit on 5-12-2016 by TrueBrit because: Grammatical error removed



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: jtma508

Just curious, where did you source this from? You didn't link it in the OP.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:36 AM
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posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: jtma508
a reply to: mOjOm

Unlike the 1% that are getting the biggest breaks.




If the 1% don't pay taxes now, why would they need a tax cut?



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:46 AM
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Nearly half the working population pays no income tax. In fact, many at the bottom have NEGATIVE tax rates which means they are actually getting money from the government, not paying taxes. So again, you cannot get a tax cut if you aren't paying taxes. The top 1% pay 43% of all federal income taxes. The Top .01%, just 115,000 households pay 20% of all federal income taxes. Let that sink in...

45% of Americans Pay No Income Tax




Despite the fact that rich people paying little in the way of income taxes makes plenty of headlines, this is the exception to the rule: The top 1% of taxpayers pay a higher effective income-tax rate than any other group (around 23%, according to a report released by the Tax Policy Center in 2014) — nearly seven times higher than those in the bottom 50%.

On average, those in the bottom 40% of the income spectrum end up getting money from the government. Meanwhile, the richest 20% of Americans, by far, pay the most in income taxes, forking over nearly 87% of all the income tax collected by Uncle Sam.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: jtma508

So under his plan instead of having 7 tax brackets there would only be 3. The top one percent may see a bigger reduction in terms of percentage as you stated but they will still be paying far more of the tax share than those in the lower brackets.

The top 1 percent pay almost HALF of all tax income.

And another EXCELLENT point of his tax plan:

Makes childcare costs deductible from adjusted gross income for most Americans (above-the-line), up to the average cost of care in their state. The deduction would be phased out for individuals earning more than $250,000 or couples earning more than $500,000. Offers credits (“spending rebates”) of up to $1,200 a year for childcare expenses to lower-income families, through the earned income tax credit. Creates new saving accounts for care for children or elderly parents, or school tuitions, and offers a 50 percent match of contributions (not modeled). Caps itemized deductions at $100,000 for single filers and $200,000 for married couples filing jointly.[3] Taxes carried interest as ordinary income. Eliminates the individual alternative minimum tax.


There is way more to love in this tax plan than to cry about the reduction in the top 1 percents rate.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: jtma508
... it just helps the upper class and 1% elites a lot more.



Using "dynamic scoring" estimates Republicans favor, the more conservative Tax Foundation still shows the greatest benefits at the top. In the Foundation's model, the lowest 20 percent of taxpayers would see after-tax incomes rise by 6.9 percent to 8.1 percent, depending on how the Trump administration resolves ambiguities about some features of its plan.

The middle 20 percent would get 7.7 percent to 9 percent. The top 20 percent would get 8.7 percent to 12.3 percent, and the top 1 percent would see a 12.2 percent-19.9 percent boost in after-tax income.


So where is the support for the middle/working class he promised? Did we all just not read between the lines? Was what he was really saying more like 'I'm going to help the working class. But I'm going to help the One-Percenters a lot more.' Is this what people expected from his campaign rhetoric?

As a disclaimer, I did not support nor did I vote for either HRC or Trump. I did read 'The Art of the Deal' and to me, Trump's entire campaign was just an execution of the business strategy laid-out in that book. So, were the American people snookered?

And for the love of God and all things righteous, please don't embarrass yourself with 'But Hillary...'. This isn't about Hillary, The Clintons, Obama or anyone else. This is about Trump's tax plan.


Generally speaking, any tax cut is going to favor the wealthy as it is the wealthy that pay the most in taxes. It is basic math. You can't get a tax cut if you already aren't paying taxes.


The top earners do not pay the most in taxes based off of % of tax to income. The middle and upper middle pay the most in taxes. What you are talking about is total tax contribution.

For me, being upper middle, I pay a high % of tax to income. More so than any other demographic of earners. It's BS. Trump was the only candidate offering to try to give me relief, not much, but some. I voted for him for that reason primarily. It may happen, it may not, who knows but I took the half court shot with him. Hillary was going to hit me even harder which is crazy. The middle and upper middle drive the economy. I take that tax relief and bounce some of it back into the economy which is what we need right now.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 12:10 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Edumakated

Yes you can absolutely cut taxes for different groups of people based on their earnings. For example, millionaires do not need a tax cut to make their resulting after tax earnings seem worth working for. A person who has diligently stayed in work since leaving school, or even leaving university, but is living in their car because all they can get are three extremely poorly paid jobs (which does happen quite a bit, and is not a statistical anomaly) however, WILL need a tax cut, in order to see benefit from their work. And so will the family man whose real terms earnings are not keeping up with the inflation of the cost of living, to the detriment of himself, his spouse, his children and potentially the marriage that binds the parents and the stability of the household entire.



None of those people your example would be paying federal income taxes. no one in America who is forced to live in a car would be making enough money to pay federal income taxes. In all likelihood they would be getting money from the government.

Our tax code needs to be simplified which is what Trump is proposing by reducing the number of brackets.

As I demonstrated, the meme about the rich not paying taxes etc is bunk. Who really gets screwed is the upper middle class, not the uber wealthy. You only need to make about $380k/yr to be considered part of the 1% in America. That is two working professional stiffs.

My household falls into this category. We are well off, but far from what most people envision as rich. We don't live in a multimillion dollar house. We aren't popping bottles with Jay-Z. Up until recently, we drove 15 year old cars. We don't have a butler. Just two middle management professionals. Your typical Doctor, lawyer, dentist, sales executive, etc. Heck, in my community, a high school principal pulls down $150k/yr.

We pay a ton in taxes relative to our income with little to show for it. I paid about $100k in taxes last year. That $100k could have easily funded my son's college savings. Provided extra income to take care of my elderly mother.

We get lumped into the same category as people who might be making $10 million/yr. Both of us are 1 percenters, but we are much closer to the middle class than we are to the uber rich.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: LifeMode

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: jtma508
... it just helps the upper class and 1% elites a lot more.



Using "dynamic scoring" estimates Republicans favor, the more conservative Tax Foundation still shows the greatest benefits at the top. In the Foundation's model, the lowest 20 percent of taxpayers would see after-tax incomes rise by 6.9 percent to 8.1 percent, depending on how the Trump administration resolves ambiguities about some features of its plan.

The middle 20 percent would get 7.7 percent to 9 percent. The top 20 percent would get 8.7 percent to 12.3 percent, and the top 1 percent would see a 12.2 percent-19.9 percent boost in after-tax income.


So where is the support for the middle/working class he promised? Did we all just not read between the lines? Was what he was really saying more like 'I'm going to help the working class. But I'm going to help the One-Percenters a lot more.' Is this what people expected from his campaign rhetoric?

As a disclaimer, I did not support nor did I vote for either HRC or Trump. I did read 'The Art of the Deal' and to me, Trump's entire campaign was just an execution of the business strategy laid-out in that book. So, were the American people snookered?

And for the love of God and all things righteous, please don't embarrass yourself with 'But Hillary...'. This isn't about Hillary, The Clintons, Obama or anyone else. This is about Trump's tax plan.


Generally speaking, any tax cut is going to favor the wealthy as it is the wealthy that pay the most in taxes. It is basic math. You can't get a tax cut if you already aren't paying taxes.


The top earners do not pay the most in taxes based off of % of tax to income. The middle and upper middle pay the most in taxes. What you are talking about is total tax contribution.

For me, being upper middle, I pay a high % of tax to income. More so than any other demographic of earners. It's BS. Trump was the only candidate offering to try to give me relief, not much, but some. I voted for him for that reason primarily. It may happen, it may not, who knows but I took the half court shot with him. Hillary was going to hit me even harder which is crazy. The middle and upper middle drive the economy. I take that tax relief and bounce some of it back into the economy which is what we need right now.


I don't disagree. However, you would be considered "rich" the way it gets defined. I'm in the same boat.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: LifeMode

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: jtma508
... it just helps the upper class and 1% elites a lot more.



Using "dynamic scoring" estimates Republicans favor, the more conservative Tax Foundation still shows the greatest benefits at the top. In the Foundation's model, the lowest 20 percent of taxpayers would see after-tax incomes rise by 6.9 percent to 8.1 percent, depending on how the Trump administration resolves ambiguities about some features of its plan.

The middle 20 percent would get 7.7 percent to 9 percent. The top 20 percent would get 8.7 percent to 12.3 percent, and the top 1 percent would see a 12.2 percent-19.9 percent boost in after-tax income.


So where is the support for the middle/working class he promised? Did we all just not read between the lines? Was what he was really saying more like 'I'm going to help the working class. But I'm going to help the One-Percenters a lot more.' Is this what people expected from his campaign rhetoric?

As a disclaimer, I did not support nor did I vote for either HRC or Trump. I did read 'The Art of the Deal' and to me, Trump's entire campaign was just an execution of the business strategy laid-out in that book. So, were the American people snookered?

And for the love of God and all things righteous, please don't embarrass yourself with 'But Hillary...'. This isn't about Hillary, The Clintons, Obama or anyone else. This is about Trump's tax plan.


Generally speaking, any tax cut is going to favor the wealthy as it is the wealthy that pay the most in taxes. It is basic math. You can't get a tax cut if you already aren't paying taxes.


The top earners do not pay the most in taxes based off of % of tax to income. The middle and upper middle pay the most in taxes. What you are talking about is total tax contribution.

For me, being upper middle, I pay a high % of tax to income. More so than any other demographic of earners. It's BS. Trump was the only candidate offering to try to give me relief, not much, but some. I voted for him for that reason primarily. It may happen, it may not, who knows but I took the half court shot with him. Hillary was going to hit me even harder which is crazy. The middle and upper middle drive the economy. I take that tax relief and bounce some of it back into the economy which is what we need right now.


My dad, who has worked diligently his whole life and established himself, from poverty to upper-middle, is in the same boat as you. He is still working hard 74 years old, despite facing surgery in January for pre-cancerous growth.. I do hope the new tax plan better rewards his extremely hard work.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated
The top 1% pay 43% of all federal income taxes. The Top .01%, just 115,000 households pay 20% of all federal income taxes. Let that sink in...]


Oh those poor billionaires and multi-millionaires, how will they ever survive?



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 12:45 PM
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I dont care what the top tier tax rates are too much. I care about my tax bracket, which is the bottom rung of middle class. If i get a tax break, fantastic.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 12:46 PM
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The figures below from 2008 are somewhat dated, but they show the general trend. When you are arguing perhaps you ought to refer to real figures instead of just your assumptions and guesses.

100%: 139,960,580 returns paid taxes of $1,031,512mil for 100% AGI for 100% of taxes
Top 1%: 1,399,606 returns paid $392,149mil for 20.70% AGI for 38.02% of taxes
Top 5%: 6,998,029 returns paid $213,569mil for 34.73% AGI for 58.72% share
Top 10%: 13,996,068 returns paid $721,421mil for 45.77% AGI for 69.94% of taxes
Top 25%: 34,990,145 returns paid $890,614mil for 67.38% AGI for 86.34% of taxes
Top 50%: 69,980,290 returns paid $1,003,639mil for 87.25% AGI for 97.30% of taxes
Bottom 50%: 69,980,290 returns paid $27,783 mil for 12.75% AGI for 2.59% of taxes.

AGI = Adjusted Gross Income. So to put this in story problem form:

The top 1% earned 20.70% of the income, but paid 38.02% of all income taxes.
The top 5% earned 34.73% of the income, but paid 58.72% of all income taxes.
The top 10% earned 45.77% of the income, but paid 69.94% of all income taxes.
The top 25% earned 67.38% of the income, but paid 86.34% of all income taxes.
The top 50% earned 87.25% of the income, but paid 97.30% of all income taxes.
The bottom 50% earned 12.75% of the income, but paid 2.59% of all income taxes

Now let’s put that in perspective.

The top 1% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $380,354.
The top 5% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $159,619.
The top 10% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $113,799.
The top 25% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $67,280.
The top 50% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $33,048.
The bottom 50% means your adjusted gross income is below $33,048.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Edumakated
The top 1% pay 43% of all federal income taxes. The Top .01%, just 115,000 households pay 20% of all federal income taxes. Let that sink in...]


Oh those poor billionaires and multi-millionaires, how will they ever survive?


The top 1% is not entirely composed of millionaires and billionaires. Put it like this...

I'm pretty sure that at 6 foot tall, I am in the 1% when it comes to height. However, this does not make me a pro basketball player by any means. However, this is how I'm being treated as a tax payer statistically.




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