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Pro-Choice “Facts”: Fetal Development

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posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:01 AM
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I Read the article below and found it to be a bit confusing and enlightening. Pro-choice or pro-life, I have a hard time with this issue.
The article had conflicting info about the what's and when's the embryo reaches certain milestones. Basically I read the article, but Planned Parenthood is claiming one thing and the article claiming yet another thing.

I wonder what ATS thinks.

In a planned parenthood fact sheet it says a 12 week old fetus cannot be compared to a person. But looking at the pics of 12 week,"fetus" looks like a baby to me.


In a Planned Parenthood fact sheet, found on their website entitled “The Facts Speak Louder than ‘The Silent Scream” one statement made is:

“A fetus of 12 weeks cannot in any way be compared to a fully formed functioning person. At this stage only rudiments of the organ systems are present. The fetus is unable to sustain life outside the woman’s womb, it is incapable of conscious thought; it is incapable of essential breathing.”

It seems to look very human to me.


By 11 weeks all the body systems are working, and the fetus is steadily breathing the embryonic fluid, and will until birth. The fetus gets all it's oxygen from the umbilical cord. Again planned parent hood says (quote above) that a 12 week old fetus can't be compared to a person. So this info is in direct conflict.


“By 11 weeks, all body systems are working.” “Life Before Birth,” Life Magazine, Apr. 30, 1965, p. 13

As for breathing:

“By 11 to 12 weeks (3 months), he [the fetus] is breathing fluid steadily and continues so until birth. At birth, he will breathe air. He does not drown by breathing fluid with-in his mother, because he obtains his oxygen from his umbilical cord. This breathing develops the organs of respiration.” “Life Before Birth,” Life Magazine, Apr. 30, 1965, p. 13


Information of the sale of the organs and fetal tissue from the clinics. I have a hard time with this particular part of the story.


In addition, information recently came out that clinics were sending fetal parts, including eyes and organs, to laboratories to be experimented on. A pamphlet from a tissue harvesting company called “Opening Lines” advertised fetal tissue, including “livers less than 8 weeks for $125 (“discounted if significantly fragmented”) spleens over 8 weeks for $75, and eyes for $50-100 depending on fetal age with “40% discounts for individual eye.” (See chart below)


clinicquotes.com...




posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:07 AM
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It's inhuman, a sick form of birth control. I personally know women who have used it as such. I understand there's special cases, rape, life of mother. But some easy women's form of birth control?? If you play, you pay, actions have consequences.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:09 AM
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a reply to: WUNK22

I understand your feelings.

But in regards to the info in the tread, do you feel that planned Phood is right with its assertions or that the article is correct?



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:11 AM
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a reply to: seasonal


Suppose you have a seed. Let's say, it is a large seed, an avocado seed that has some substance. Is that seed alive or dead while it is still in the avocado and perhaps even when unripened on the tree?


Pro-Choice is such arrogance. Nazism at its finest.


+3 more 
posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:12 AM
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What's "funny" is that if they found a single-celled organism on Mars, the pro-infanticide crowd would be ejaculating in enthusiasm over how cool it was and raving over how much this life needs to be protected and studied. They'd use as close a word to "sacred" as they could get without actually using it.

But when life interferes with their desire to f# without consequences, to hell with life.
edit on 12/5/16 by NthOther because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:15 AM
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I didn't address it because it is obvious, planned parenthood is a business and is run as such. Like Coca-Cola, or Kellogg telling us they care about our health. I do enjoy your posts and replies Seasonal, im always looking for homer's brain on threads!a reply to: seasonal




posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:20 AM
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a reply to: WUNK22

Ok, I see your point.

Planned P is giving women false info to de humanize the "fetus" to increase sales?

And these increased sales will give them more "fetal" tissue to sell to the thirsty baby parts market?

Is that a safe assumption on my part?



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:23 AM
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a reply to: Aliensun

THat is a very good analogy.

Calling a baby a "fetus" doesn't seem right, and if you leave the "fetus' alone it would indeed become a baby.

I see your point, thank you for your insight.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:25 AM
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I call total BS on that price list.

"Prices in effect through Dec 31st" Please


Unless your directly involved in the pregnancy keep your opinions to yourself is my stance



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:26 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

Unless your directly involved in the pregnancy keep your opinions to yourself is my stance

Then stop clamoring for public financing.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:29 AM
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a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

I'll see if I can get an updated menu of current prices and "products" for ya. Need any fries with that?



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:29 AM
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a preterm baby, born before 30 weeks gestational age, still has immature lungs, and need breathing assistance and time for the lungs "to mature"

So yes, Pro Choice is correct: at 12 weeks, the fetus is unable to sustain life outside the woman’s womb, it is incapable of conscious thought; it is incapable of essential breathing.

Maybe you need to switch to a more recent publication, instead of relying on one from 1965



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:31 AM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: WUNK22

Ok, I see your point.

Planned P is giving women false info to de humanize the "fetus" to increase sales?

And these increased sales will give them more "fetal" tissue to sell to the thirsty baby parts market?

Is that a safe assumption on my part?


I'll back your assumption. I have a three year old daughter, you damned right I back your assumption.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:31 AM
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a reply to: NthOther

You are correct, it would be a shiny new "life" form. And the article seems to have a real problem denoting when and what life is.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:31 AM
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originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: seasonal


Suppose you have a seed. Let's say, it is a large seed, an avocado seed that has some substance. Is that seed alive or dead while it is still in the avocado and perhaps even when unripened on the tree?


Pro-Choice is such arrogance. Nazism at its finest.




Imagine you have a good fruit tree that is old and established and has given fruit year after year. Imagine now that this tree would wilt or become sick because it has a small sapling that it can't sustain [for whatever reason]. Nobody knows if the sapling will be a good tree or a bad tree or even make it to the same age.

Yet people will rather ignore the established tree and help the unfinished sapling even to the detriment of the established tree.

Now THAT'S idiocy and Nazism at it's finest.

The mother MUST have the last word. Even if some people don't like it. It is HER body and anyone who forces another human to go through something as big as a 9month pregnancy [which could theoretically result in the death of the mother - never mind how rare] can not be made legal.

Would you let your kid go on a school trip that it really doesn't want to go on or can't go on because it would be traumatic [for a variety of reasons] and which has a small chance of death and takes almost a year? What would you say if the government would force you to make your kid go on such a trip? Unfair? Absolutely. Same with forcing a woman to go through a pregnancy.

My understanding is that there is a time limit already in place to stop women aborting too late. And late abortions are only done under very specific circumstances.

I don't care if someone has once heard that one woman used it as contraception, but I have to say it sounds very bias. I haven't heard that woman's story and I am sure you can't just go and have your fetus aborted that late just for the lolz.
That's just made up anti-abortion propaganda.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:34 AM
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a reply to: whismermill

I agree the article 1965 info is old, but I figured it was before the both sides of the argument were entrenched in the stigma of abortion, so I did use it as a base in this thread.

The "fetus" is breathing embryonic fluid and your right the lungs are growing, hence the gestation in the womb.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:38 AM
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a reply to: whismermill

UNABLE TO SUSTAIN LIFE "OUTSIDE".

How do you know it has no conscious thought? You don't, just another mindless barbarian killing the LIFE within bellies.

SMFDH

Life and Consciousness don't start because the tangible parts aren't all fully formed, that is what science is saying, "oh its still developing so it can't work blah blah blah", I don't believe that and never will.

The moment that spark ignites, a universe is born.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:41 AM
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There's a simple way to look at this whole pro life/choice question.

Do you want a 14 year old girl to kill herself with a coat hanger?

If you don't, then pro choice is the "only" option.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:51 AM
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Can't believe this argument is still going strong. Unless this "baby" or "fetus" is self life sustaining it's not living.

"Conception" in our modern day is only through the use of a woman's body-and she and only she is in control as to what happens to her body-not a bunch of politicians or scientists.

The church. The Bible. That's where men get their power and their own "morality" to control others.

Our science still isn't able to answer these important questions "when life begins" so until then, quit trying to control others. Freedom-remember?



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:54 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Why would she kill herself?



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