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Virginia high school banned “To Kill a Mockingbird” “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn”

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posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 05:02 AM
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originally posted by: Pandaram
If is it offending, it should go.. this is not 1960 when racism is ok in America. Kids are stupid and use this words like its normal to use. Just like in the stupid book.

Isnt it isis flaqs are offencive to


I find it interesting that the same ones who are arguing about "freedom of expression " here are the same ones who want to jail and deport those who burn flags.........

And vice-versa.

We either have the freedom to express ourselves or not?

That includes burning flags, reading the n word, etc. Etc.

If not, then we are NOT free but under authority. ...aka authoritarian.

I for one do not want to live in an authoritarian society. "Give me liberty....or give me death"!


edit on 12/5/2016 by AlbanArthur because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 05:16 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

This is outrageous.

The very reason that one ought read the works of times long past, is to remind oneself of the degree of social progress which has been made in the time between their publication, and ones reading of them, amongst other things. It also promotes the idea that the past was not a time PURELY to be derided and looked on with disgust, but also a time in which, even amongst such terrible inequality, there were characters of discernment and compassion, characters which had about them more love than hatred, greater wit than ignorance, characters who defined periods of history by being ahead of their time, as, very often, were the authors themselves.

The truth, which is that the period those books were written in, was a different time than the one we inhabit now, will never be changed by preventing people from reading that history, or books published in the misty days of yore. All that preventing these books being read by children will do, is prevent them being able to look upon the world that was, and the world that is, and drawing proper conclusions about how much work there is still to do to crush, to destroy, to absolutely butcher the idea that ignorance is equal to intelligence, that discrimination is as valid as inclusiveness, to absolutely rid the entire free world of divisive political figures, and persons who do not wish to accept their fellow man as their brother, and their equal, based on ridiculous notions like the supremacy of a skin tone, and the like.

Children are the future, but only as long as we do not force them to become the past.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 05:52 AM
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originally posted by: TNMockingbird
Oh gosh I really want to say something that I likely shouldn't but, will anyway.

Don't parents need to take some responsibility in having conversations with their children about what they are doing or reading in school? Shouldn't the parents already be aware of any curricula taught in the public school that their child attends?


In order for parents to discuss it, parents need to understand it. That's not always the case.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 05:57 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

we disagree fairly often over different things... but here we are 100% on the same page, you are just much much better at articulating the thoughts than I will probably ever be.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 05:59 AM
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Eliminate every reference to the N word, it offends people. People dont need to know if ever existed. Knowing the truth only causes problems. Besides, im tired of me and my white ancestors being called racist. Just get rid of slavery and the civil rights era, "modernize" the text books. Get rid of MLK and all his accomplishments, change all the streetnames, schools, King County, WA, everything with his name. If people know about him, they will know he fought for civil rights, then they will know about racism, then we will have to explain things like the N word.

After all, I was reading a book to my son this one time, and I realized I was going to have to explain history and racism and maybe slavery to him, but screw reality, its too hard! I had a personal experience, you guys don't understand, it was soo hard! Who wants to have those difficult conversations with their children? I'd rather everything be peaches and roses and have him grow up in a fantasy world. You know, detached from reality. What could go wrong??

We can just modernize everything and that will solve all our problems! Eliminate every old newspaper clipping from the civil rights era, every mention of slavery... It can be like the US Civil War never happened... All the blood, sweat and tears shed by heroic individuals to get us to where we are today? It means nothing to me! Id rather just pretend it never happened. Much easier that way. We can just get rid of huge chunks of history, and racism will just magically go away right along with it.

If anything, we could at least do as some here are suggesting, and keep it away from the poor impressionable children... Keep all these books, and all the true text books and old newspapers and photos in a special "adults only" section, kind of like pornography in a movie store... Just hold back the truth as long as possible, keep that fantasy world of santa clause and the tooth fairy alive as long as possible, and then, once they become an adult, rip off the blindfold and open up the floodgates of reality and let it hit them like a tsunami... It probably wont cause any psychological problems.

In fact, I bet once they turn 18, they wont even want to go in that bad adult section. If we do see anyone going in that seperate, hidden section, we will know they are going in there to look at the naughty stuff, and we can shame them appropriately. Call them racist and such for wanting to read the N word and other naughty words.

Get rid of all Snoop Doggs albums too, and all the other bad people who use the N word... Nobody needs to hear rap music. Nobody needs to know what its like living in the ghetto. Its gross, who would want to know about that? If we know about problems, then we have to try to solve them, and that's hard! Just get rid of everything that's offensive, and while we are at it, everything that's hard! I hate hard stuff!



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 06:04 AM
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reading a classic like that in school is an excellent exercise, specially because of the controversial parts. as long as the teacher has the ability to discuss things with students and analyze the text adequately.
books are not just entertainment.

same goes if you read a classic to your Kids at home- it is a chance to learn something about the world and use the brain instead of just reading for pleasure.

also i would imagine that if i read a classic to my kid i would have read it beforehand myself!
i find it quite funny that some people read books to their kids and suddenly discover that there is sensible content in it. and then instead of discussing and explaining and learning they just grab another book for entertainment.
i understand that many parents only read to their kids to make them sleep and shut up.
i can really understand that and i think it is a good thing on it´s own.

but taking a few minutes to actually read a classic to your kid that you read yourself and enjoyed when you have been small yourself and then reflect on the difficult parts that after 20 or more years suddenly seem outdated and awkward or even plain wrong- and discuss them in the light of the current world could be an excellent thing for a kid to experience.
learning about the bad parts of history is tough for a kid but necessary. but at the right age ofc.

making kid-friendly classics for easy consumerism and thought free enjoyment sounds like a bad idea to me. when kids are at the right age they should read books that challenge their critical thinking - specially at school.




edit on 5-12-2016 by glowdog because: errz

edit on 5-12-2016 by glowdog because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 06:07 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Yes. One of the very first important lessons I can remember being taught is that "if we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it". And what is happening here, is people are preventing other people from having the benefit of learning from history. The people doing the preventing know about history, but they would yet prevent others from having access to that knowledge and wisdom. Absolutely sickening!



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 06:22 AM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
There was an old phrase that went something like "the tighter you clinch your fist around them, the more will seep through your fingers".


Princess Leia, A New Hope.

That film was racially insensitive since they never showed anybody but whitey, probably should be banned too.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 06:39 AM
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a reply to: Irishhaf

There are certain concepts which ought to unite people by their very definition.

The idea that the past only remains the past when one is mindful of it in the correct fashion, is just such a concept. And I can think of no time since the publication of the books concerned, where a firm understanding of cultural and societal history could be more important to a young person, in deciding the route they will take in life, in how they will evolve into adulthood, than it is today.

I say this, not because there have not been worse times for those who believe in and require a greater degree of equality, because that is not true. I say these things, not because minorities have never been under greater threat than they are today, because this also would be false. I say these things because so much good work has been done, by so many, so many lives have been protected, so many families empowered rather than torn apart as they would have been in the past, that now, the present and the future are worth protecting from a backslide, more worthy of that protection than at any time in history, recent or ancient.

The rights that have been expanded to include all citizens, not just a certain sector of a population but its entire population, are worth fighting for, and if that fight is to be successful, all persons must be prepared to band together and fight for those rights, not under many flags, but under a single unified banner. Your rights to privacy, to liberty and freedom, to justice applied equally to all persons under the law, these things have been and are under threat. The most lethal tool that those who wish to take liberty and freedom from the people have, to ensure they are able to pull off that theft, is to lever cross sections of communities against one another, by denying them access to their history, by clouding the context within which people live their lives, so that they can eventually cause people to blame one another for the failure of government to protect their rights, and have the people doing the blaming believe that it was their idea to cast that blame, their idea of who to cast it at.

Allowing the powers that be to remove people from their history, is always the first of several rapid steps to ensuring their enslavement, making them easier to control. These steps must be prevented, and to ensure that they are, people are going to have to insist on having their history taught as it is, not as one might like it to be. In Britain, we must teach our young that our empire was built on the blood of innocent people, that we did great wrongs to create it, that we must never repeat them, and that yes, it is wise to look upon current affairs through the lens of yesteryear, so that we might see the hypocrisy of our leaders for what it is, the old fashioned imperialism wherever it raises its head. And so must America be prepared to teach its young of slavery, of the casual racism which infected the place, of the great wrongs that were done and defined those eras in which it was a problem, as well as the great rights that were done to combat the darkness, culminating one could say, in the era of Martin Luther King and his dream, and the freedoms that came along in his wake, and the wake of other community activists of his time and since.

If we feed our young lies, they will cease to live in truth, to carry it before them as their shield and their sword, to wear it upon themselves as armour, as we do, as all should.

You are right irishhaf, that you and I disagree on a great many things, but we both desire the truth, have a respect for it, and for our history, our real history, and a desire not to see the worst of that history vested upon the next generation. No matter what we disagree on, that we come together around this singular point speaks volumes not necessarily about us as individuals, but a great deal about the purity of the argument we have both set forth in this thread.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:17 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Well, I can't say I'm surprised by those who endorse and want to promote censorship.


You'd prefer promoting hatred and prejudice - - - that we've fought hard to evolve from?

Children don't need it.



Oh my oh my. How on earth do you think children can learn from experience if the experience and facts are erased?
Instead of banning this, why not read it with our more liberal viewpoint in mind. Let kids read it and discuss how far we have come since then and what steps we had to take to get there.

Strangely enough I have a sneaky feeling they would learn a valuable life lesson!

But then some snowflakes comes along and instead of using history to explain and teach, they just ban it or pretend it has never happened.

You know what the outcome of such 'lalala I have-my-fingers-in-my-ears' attitude would be?

Kids with no clue, who will be scared of their own shadows and who won't have the tools to see or fight any injustice in the future because they will be blind to it. Nice going.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 07:25 AM
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originally posted by: Pandaram
a reply to: DBCowboy

I would.. if is it turning others to offend me,, its democracy.



If that is the case, all books should be banned -in fact, literacy should be considered a felony Thoughtcrime. Everything has potential to offend someone.

ETA: I remember reading Huckleberry Finn in high school. I finished it feeling offended that Black people were once treated the way they were back then, and glad they weren't anymore. It gave me some perspective as to how things were in those days.
edit on 12/5/2016 by dogstar23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: dogstar23


A whole lot of very good arguments to keep literature like this available to anyone and all of a sudden all the usual
"progressive" suspects disappear from the conversation.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: everyone




and all of a sudden all the usual "progressive" suspects disappear from the conversation.


Some of us just went to bed. Also - it's early

:-)



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 09:23 AM
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originally posted by: Rubicon3
a reply to: Annee

"Real life is real life" ? Then why have you been arguing about wanting to BAN real life?



I haven't.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 09:37 AM
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originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Annee

One cannot 'modernize' classics. That is censorship. "To Kill a Mockingbird" is taught to 9th graders, normally, and the context of different words is part of the lesson plan.

I am surprised that anyone would think think this is a good idea of any kind.



I've lived a long time.

I've raised 3 generations of kids.

They do not need to go back in time. They do not need to experience the bigotry of the south in a time 80 years before they were born.

There are different challenges of this generation which I choose to focus on.

If you think it's important to your kid, that's your right.

I don't.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 09:46 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Annee

One cannot 'modernize' classics. That is censorship. "To Kill a Mockingbird" is taught to 9th graders, normally, and the context of different words is part of the lesson plan.

I am surprised that anyone would think think this is a good idea of any kind.



I've lived a long time.

I've raised 3 generations of kids.

They do not need to go back in time. They do not need to experience the bigotry of the south in a time 80 years before they were born.

There are different challenges of this generation which I choose to focus on.

If you think it's important to your kid, that's your right.

I don't.



“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.”
― Søren Kierkegaard

“Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with acceptance can there be recovery.”
― J.K. Rowling

“Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.”
― Marie Curie

“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
― Carl Sagan

"If you don't understand the past you cant prepare for the future.
_ Dragonridr



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 09:49 AM
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Between this and the "fake news" scare, we are going down the rabbit hole people. Hold onto your hats, scary times ahead.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: Annee

What about Jane Austin? You know, how women were married off with very little say, their inheritance entailed to male heirs, etc? Does that offend you? What about Song of Ice and Fire? Too much sex and violence? What about Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas? Too much drugs?

When you start building bonfires, you just never know what will get thrown in.



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 10:01 AM
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originally posted by: kosmicjack
What about Song of Ice and Fire? Too much sex...


Never!



posted on Dec, 5 2016 @ 10:23 AM
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a reply to: Annee

The idea that the challenges faced by people to day are so different from those faced by people in yesteryear, is an illusion, not a fact.

The reality is that there are still too many people working hard and not receiving a proper wage. There are still communities full of people who are treated differently because of their appearance, there are still powerful figures pulling the strings which control thought and access to the basic things of life, and that the particular minorities being affected may have changed somewhat is neither here nor there.

Look at the Second World War. If people never knew it had happened, how long do you think it would be before it, or something just like it, but for the names of the players and the ethnicity of the victims, happened again? You think a long time?

I would give it a mere decade. We learn by example. When we see the result of a line of reasoning, and know it to be bad, we, generally speaking, amend our thinking to prevent that bad pathway being taken. Without that experience to draw on, we as a species find it INCREDIBLY easy to repeat our worst mistakes, another lesson that a proper grasp of history provides us.

What possible motivation can you have, for raising your kids to be ignorant of the only source of information which can save the species?



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