Virginia high school banned “To Kill a Mockingbird” “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn”

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Annee
There are millions of books out there. Classics? Why are these 2 books classics?

Because they're great literature. There's a difference between, say, "The Sun Also Rises" and "The Moon Pool", even though they were written less than ten years apart. One is great literature and one is pulp. It's not just the age of the novel.

Ironically, both books are powerful arguments against racism. I find it amusing that they're banning them because they have 'offensive language'.

If I ask a question - - you can be pretty sure I'm on it - doing my own research.

Interesting read: 6 Reasons ‘Huck Finn’ Is Not The Dusty Old Classic You Think It Is

1. It’s not actually a light-hearted book about ‘innocent’ childhood: A century of movies, cartoons, comic books, songs, and abridged editions have told Americans that Huck Finn is about how free and innocent childhood used to be. But there were gangs in Victorian America, school shootings, anxieties about children being exposed to violent pop culture. There were parents worried their kids studied too hard, stayed indoors too much, and never exercised. And Twain was writing about all that. For contemporary parents concerned about their children and decadent media, or their relationship to nature, or standardized education, Huck Finn isn’t some throwback to a more innocent time — it’s a reminder that the same debates have been taking place for a century and more. www.huffingtonpost.com...

originally posted by: Bedlam

Ironically, both books are powerful arguments against racism. I find it amusing that they're banning them because they have 'offensive language'.

That language is something my child has never heard.

I don't want it forced on him. Especially, forced on him before he's ready to understand.

I don't support schools forcing this book.

If he read it on his own, knowing he can ask me questions - - that would be different.

a reply to: Annee

If you've never read either with intent, that is, not as something you were forced to read the cliff's notes on in high school, you really owe it to yourself to read both. Slowly, and with enjoyment.

TKAM is probably more accessible to the occasional reader. Huck Finn is a bit tougher to read and to some extent assumes you have also read Tom Sawyer.

I can tell you where I was when I read TKAM the first time, it made enough of an impression on me the memory stuck. Also, the movie adaptation with Gregory Peck is not horribly far from the novel, but it leaves out a lot of nuance.

eta: With both, as is usual in literature by competent authors (an argument for Capote, tbh), there are layers upon layers of meaning both intrinsic and extrinsic, symbolism, archetype, observation as well as the rote story. That's a difference between, say, a Dan Brown novel, which is an adventure yarn and nothing much beyond, and 'A Tale of Two Cities'. One's a classic and one's not, and that's a primary reason why.

Also, remember Chekov's Gun - nothing much is in there that's not making a particular point. What's the function of the rabid dog? Is it just to insert a tension point, does it just reveal an aspect of Atticus (it does) or is it a harbinger of later action? What else dies in the book besides the dog? Do the two things relate?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Book bannings aren't a new phenomenon - I believe all these titles have been on a list several times since they have been published. My English teacher always said that if the book was banned, then it was a good read for the class.

At least in my classes - we had to read the book as part of our class because it represented a period of time that isn't always covered in the history books. Unfortunately, that means you will also get the local language used at the time of creation (on the side To Kill a Mockingbird is technically anti-racist - a white lawyer is protecting an innocent African American, which at the time was almost unheard of).

If you are going to ban a book because it uses a term like that, then I'd hate to see what you would do with some of the other books that I've had to read in class. My teacher gave me a copy of the book Feed Link to summary and asked me to review it, as he was going to be considering it for the next year's class. There is a whole chapter in there with several allusions to sex, and very...vivid imagery.

Surprised she isn't complaining about Oedipus Rex - getting it down with your own mother seems like a worse message than the dreaded N-word.

-fossilera

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

I can agree with some of what you said and I think the idea of banning those books in particular is silly, but I think we can agree that we do need to draw a line for what content we do, as parents/teachers/whatever, want to allow our kids access to in public schools.

What that line is must be decided by the local community, unless we want it to be decided by the government decree, and in that way I can respect what the mother is doing even if I disagree with her choice.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Bedlam

Ironically, both books are powerful arguments against racism. I find it amusing that they're banning them because they have 'offensive language'.

That language is something my child has never heard.

I don't want it forced on him. Especially, forced on him before he's ready to understand.

I don't support schools forcing this book.

If he read it on his own, knowing he can ask me questions - - that would be different.

Atticus finch would say you can't protect your children from reality. So you just need to raise them right to gave good judgement. His son listened to him read the book.

originally posted by: everyone

originally posted by: Pandaram
If is it offending, it should go.. this is not 1960 when racism is ok in America. Kids are stupid and use this words like its normal to use. Just like in the stupid book.

Isnt it isis flaqs are offencive to some btw?

So when are we going to ban rap albums and videos that contain this exact same slur?

Oh i agree of course

But if they are gonna make these sort of stances and rules against literature which they take completely out of context btw, but still allow their students to listen and singalong and take inspiration out of music that goes like "or i will bust your n*gah ass and take your riches and b*shes" then one has to wonder if these people have any root in the reality around them whatsoever.

These are the people leading our schools????

originally posted by: Bedlam
a reply to: Annee

If you've never read either with intent, that is, not as something you were forced to read the cliff's notes on in high school, you really owe it to yourself to read both. Slowly, and with enjoyment.

TKAM is probably more accessible to the occasional reader. Huck Finn is a bit tougher to read and to some extent assumes you have also read Tom Sawyer.

I can tell you where I was when I read TKAM the first time, it made enough of an impression on me the memory stuck. Also, the movie adaptation with Gregory Peck is not horribly far from the novel, but it leaves out a lot of nuance.

Thanks, I'm not against any books myself.

But, kids are at various mature levels. So, I don't think it should be forced on them.

The only book I remember being forced to read was: Silas Marner. That was in high school. That was way above my mature level. Not a hard read, but I could tell there was a lot more to it then surface read. I hated it. Maybe reading it as an adult I wouldn't of hated it so much.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Bedlam

Ironically, both books are powerful arguments against racism. I find it amusing that they're banning them because they have 'offensive language'.

That language is something my child has never heard.

How do you know?
Everyone hears it constantly in music, videos, movies and in articles everywhere. unless your kid is 2 years old or something or if older and not have everything around him controlled 100% 24/7 by you i find that really hard to believe.

a reply to: introvert

What that line is must be decided by the local community, unless we want it to be decided by the government decree, and in that way I can respect what the mother is doing even if I disagree with her choice.

Right?

What we've learned here is:

Never let facts get in the way of your wrath or your point - they're real killjoys

What's right is always right - and should never be up for discussion in a free society

Some people are morons

a reply to: introvert

Agreed that the mother has every right. Agreed we disagree with her choice? Agreed local communities should be the first voice and loudest voice in almost all matters; however, we both know banning/censorship/whatever this action falls under could easily make its way to the Supreme Court Building and the line you speak of will certainly be drawn by the government (Does that make it government decree? I honestly don't know.) in a case such as this. The Federal government that is. Beyond that, we agree and I have the slightest idea how this plays out going forward.

originally posted by: BeefNoMeat

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Pandaram

Censorship is a denial of freedom of expression.

And Freedom of Expression does have limits.

Stalin thought so too.

You still can't yell "Fire" in a crowded theater.

Hmmm, a book can't yell "fire" either.

It has to be actually, voluntarily read.

The poster is grasping at straws to simply save face. To suggest/imply/infer that Mark Twain or Harper Lee were racists is to show a strong naïveté. As a humorist and satirist, Sameul Clemens did more to expose and rebuke racism than any of his generation than Abe Lincoln. That's history. It's undeniable. This white mother is just a fire starter and needs attention - yes, I recognize the leap of a conclusion I made...but I believe it is obvious. Just as obvious as the antagonism the poster is attempting; Twain and Harper Lee penned seminal works of literature that helped expose the nastiness of racism and their target audience was their genius - children who could be raised with an awareness that wasn't afforded the previous generations. End of rant.

There are times when I wish I could give more than 1 star.....now is one of those times

originally posted by: everyone

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Bedlam

Ironically, both books are powerful arguments against racism. I find it amusing that they're banning them because they have 'offensive language'.

That language is something my child has never heard.

How do you know?
Everyone hears it constantly in music, videos, movies and in articles everywhere. unless your kid is 2 years old or something or if older and not have everything around him controlled 100% 24/7 by you i find that really hard to believe.

He's almost 9. He listens to instrumental jazz. He has no interest in movies.

He likes things that are happy and funny. He makes videos using his stuffed animals.

His school is very ethnically mixed, probably leaning toward predominately white. The kids all seem to get along fine.

So far, so good.

But, we are starting to get some playground behaviors this year. Mostly about who's cute, and who's annoying.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Wildbob77
a reply to: RomeByFire

There are always a small minority of HS students who will end up going on to be great people. It is for those students that teachers must teach

Many of the other students will go on to college but will never be great thinkers.

Personally when our kids were in HS we limited gaming to about 30 minutes a day. Our kids turned out great.

Parents need to parent and teachers need to teach

My kid is a story teller.

He's been creating and making his own videos since about age 7.

I review everything. There can be no bad words and nothing controversial in bad taste. Reason is: what ever you put on the internet will be there for life. It can affect your future. I've taught him to keep a writing pad next to him - - - which he can say whatever he wants - - - but, NEVER on the internet.

Reminds me of comedians. I really admire those that can do a clean show. It takes a lot more creativity to present something G rated. Anyone can stand up and say "F" this - - "F" that.

------------------------------------------------------------------

So, absolutely NO - - - I would not want my kid reading the Original Classics - - until they are older.

So is your child banned from history classes and history books too?

Or do you have some liberal happy slapply history book where everyone gets along and the past is sunshine and rainbows?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Bedlam

Ironically, both books are powerful arguments against racism. I find it amusing that they're banning them because they have 'offensive language'.

That language is something my child has never heard.

I don't want it forced on him. Especially, forced on him before he's ready to understand.

I don't support schools forcing this book.

If he read it on his own, knowing he can ask me questions - - that would be different.

Atticus finch would say you can't protect your children from reality. So you just need to raise them right to gave good judgement. His son listened to him read the book.

Kids mature at different rates - levels.

I don't think these 2 books should be forced.

originally posted by: Ohanka
God help these kids if they have to study Germany 1918-1945.

Sure there is a libral version where nothing happend and everyone was fine in there safe spaces!

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Wildbob77
a reply to: RomeByFire

There are always a small minority of HS students who will end up going on to be great people. It is for those students that teachers must teach

Many of the other students will go on to college but will never be great thinkers.

Personally when our kids were in HS we limited gaming to about 30 minutes a day. Our kids turned out great.

Parents need to parent and teachers need to teach

My kid is a story teller.

He's been creating and making his own videos since about age 7.

I review everything. There can be no bad words and nothing controversial in bad taste. Reason is: what ever you put on the internet will be there for life. It can affect your future. I've taught him to keep a writing pad next to him - - - which he can say whatever he wants - - - but, NEVER on the internet.

Reminds me of comedians. I really admire those that can do a clean show. It takes a lot more creativity to present something G rated. Anyone can stand up and say "F" this - - "F" that.

------------------------------------------------------------------

So, absolutely NO - - - I would not want my kid reading the Original Classics - - until they are older.

So is your child banned from history classes and history books too?

Or do you have some liberal happy slapply history book where everyone gets along and the past is sunshine and rainbows?

OH, THE DRAMA!!!

Is there some need to go to the extreme?

.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Ohanka
God help these kids if they have to study Germany 1918-1945.

What does that have to do with this subject?

Real life is real life.

Some of the best ways of learning history is through reading litrature of the time.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Ohanka
God help these kids if they have to study Germany 1918-1945.

What does that have to do with this subject?

Real life is real life.

Some of the best ways of learning history is through reading litrature of the time.

If history interests him, I'm sure he'll go there.

Right now he wants to start a band and make videos.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Some people are morons

Unfortunately.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Agreed we disagree with her choice?

I think we can agree that her books of choice to ban are silly.

however, we both know banning/censorship/whatever this action falls under could easily make its way to the Supreme Court Building and the line you speak of will certainly be drawn by the government

It's not easy to land yourself in front of the SC.