It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Fury as watchdog says it's OK to send gay people death threats – but only if you're Muslim

page: 3
11
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:19 AM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Profusion
The Bible says that gays should be killed too.


There is nothing in the Bible about killing homosexuals.


Old Testament does have that provision. Thing is that the New Testament happened, and the teachings of Christ are that we should follow the spirit of the law not the letter and the He came to fulfill the Old Testament Law.


Perfectly said, follow the spirit of the law not the letter, the law was created to be fair and just. Use love as the context
Though there are ceremonial laws, civil laws and moral laws, how do we understand the civil law and the ceremonial law and how we follow them?

Though I agree with your statement, I see issues worth considering




posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:20 AM
link   

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Profusion
The Bible says that gays should be killed too.


There is nothing in the Bible about killing homosexuals.


Yeah, you're right. The Bible moved past that into more radical extremes.

The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.

Oh... wait....

“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, “Strike me!” But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, “Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.” And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

I could continue on but I don't feel like delving deeper into the # that twisted book has to say.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
a reply to: marg6043

Really?

Youre gonna go with the translation from a pro gay Christian site that claims the bible just meant sleeping in the same bed and not referring to gay sex?

The passage clearly means gay sex, short of getting pornographic I dont think it could be any clearer



Here's the thing. You cannot understand the New Testament without the Old which is why it's there, but it's also a mistake to think that just because a passage exists in the Old Testament that we must follow it ver batim too.

As it is, there are apocryphal books Christ references that it helps to have those books to understand what he means, but they were left out of the formal Bible.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ketsuko
Thing is that the New Testament happened, and the teachings of Christ are that we should follow the spirit of the law not the letter and the He came to fulfill the Old Testament Law.


Which is what I posted.

I find it kinda funny that I am arguing from a Christian perspective when I am not one.



So do I but you are pretty much spot on
Good to see some people understanding instead of accusing
Thanks



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:21 AM
link   
a reply to: RomeByFire

Please see my later posts in regards the Old Testament.

Also please keep in mind that I am not a Christian.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:22 AM
link   
a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

I believe Leviticus is the law of the Levites (priest class). Levites who engage in homosexual entercourse (among various other unclean behaviors, such as eating lobster) are to be put to death.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: Raggedyman
So do I but you are pretty much spot on
Good to see some people understanding instead of accusing
Thanks


Well, in 9+ years here I think I have learned how to listen to a argument. I have stopped quoting Old Testament intolerance to most Christians since they all seem to disavow it anyway.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Profusion
The Bible says that gays should be killed too.


There is nothing in the Bible about killing homosexuals.


That's true. The Bible doesn't have the word "homosexual" in it. What ever a homosexual is, the bible is silent.

For example, if two men are holding hands and kissing, modern society might label them homosexual, but the bible doesn't say whether this is good or bad. It just doesn't say anything at all on the matter.

The bible only talks about "a specific act".

The act of coitus between two men, whether they are homosexuals, or heterosexuals "experimenting", or whatever.

It's "the act" that the bible judges. A man lies with another man like a woman, refers to intercourse itself.

Not all gay men have intercourse in their relationships. Some are so afraid of AIDS that they just sit and chat, and hold hands etc..

Also, while the bible does say that if a man lies with a man they must be put to death, it doesn't say "who" is allowed to put them to death.

When Jesus came, he added more clarity on who is allowed to carry out these kinds of executions:



So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. -- KJV, John 8:7


So, IF YOU ARE PERFECT you can kill the men.

God is perfect, so he kills whomsoever he judges.

But, if you are not perfect, and you kill, then you are subject to THE SAME JUDGMENT for your own sins.

So, if you don't mind being judged the same way, of course, you can judge others according to your will.

If you notice, all those who kill homosexuals are themselves killed.

Because they too have sins.

Those who have no fear of judgments can freely judge.



Judge not, that ye be not judged. -- KJV, Matthew 7:1

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. -- KJV, Matthew 7:2











edit on 3-12-2016 by AMPTAH because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: VP740
...such as eating lobster) are to be put to death.


I would be so dead.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:24 AM
link   

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
No he didnt


I think he did. His answer is the standard one given by most Christians when discussing Biblical law. The do not use the Mosaic, only Jesus' teachings.


So when you wrote



There is nothing in the Bible about killing homosexuals.


Did you mean to say "yes the bible does say that but it doesnt count"



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:25 AM
link   
a reply to: mOjOm

Is like everything that uses religion to wag wars and commit despicable acts against other human beings, is all about the interpretation, m0j0m, this is why still in our modern days where human rights are been encourage we still get to debate this type of subjects.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
Did you mean to say "yes the bible does say that but it doesnt count"


No, I was referring to the New Testament since the Original Poster mentioned Christians and the killing of homosexuals.




edit on 3-12-2016 by AugustusMasonicus because: Zazz 2020!



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:26 AM
link   
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

They disavow it when it's convenient for them to do so. But when they can use it to suit their narrative they'll use it again.

Being able to claim they don't follow the OT whenever it suits their argument makes for a nice way to avoid being caught in arguments. But that hardly means anything other than they created a sweet little loophole to escape through when needed.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Profusion
The Bible says that gays should be killed too.


There is nothing in the Bible about killing homosexuals.


Old Testament does have that provision. Thing is that the New Testament happened, and the teachings of Christ are that we should follow the spirit of the law not the letter and the He came to fulfill the Old Testament Law.


Perfectly said, follow the spirit of the law not the letter, the law was created to be fair and just. Use love as the context
Though there are ceremonial laws, civil laws and moral laws, how do we understand the civil law and the ceremonial law and how we follow them?

Though I agree with your statement, I see issues worth considering


This is the excuse that people pander and it equates to a third grade level of intellect.

I love when people talk about and split the new and Old Testament. You guys are funny.

Religious folks claim that God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, is infallible, etc etc (which means he's all seeing all knowing all loving and cannot make a mistake). I've never claimed this, religious folks have.

If God were to be an infallible being, why did we need to write another version of his infallible book? You do realize the problem this creates? Furthermore, who wrote the book? Men?

Good, so we've gotten that far. How do we know what they wrote was that of God? Because of ancient documents and manuscripts.... such as the Old Testament? But I thought the OT was NOT God's word and was instead..... you see how little of sense this makes?

You can't just seperate the two as if they are not related or have no correlation - but then again, this is what religious folk do. They don't care about consistency. They don't care about objectivity.

"Just love, man, and let Jesus take your hand, son, and uh, let's chill, man."

I don't believe Jesus ever walked this Earth and to claim to "know," what happens after life or "know," what/who God is/are, to claim to have found the truth in a book (that people so often seperate and cherry-pick at the discretion) - get real.

Only an idiot or someone brought up and raised (indoctrinated) around this # are the only ones to follow it.

Oh, and I feel this way about ALL religions. If you're going to join a cult, join a friendly one like the Mormons.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Profusion
The Bible says that gays should be killed too.


There is nothing in the Bible about killing homosexuals.


Old Testament does have that provision. Thing is that the New Testament happened, and the teachings of Christ are that we should follow the spirit of the law not the letter and the He came to fulfill the Old Testament Law.


Perfectly said, follow the spirit of the law not the letter, the law was created to be fair and just. Use love as the context
Though there are ceremonial laws, civil laws and moral laws, how do we understand the civil law and the ceremonial law and how we follow them?

Though I agree with your statement, I see issues worth considering


This is the excuse that people pander and it equates to a third grade level of intellect.

I love when people talk about and split the new and Old Testament. You guys are funny.

Religious folks claim that God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, is infallible, etc etc (which means he's all seeing all knowing all loving and cannot make a mistake). I've never claimed this, religious folks have.

If God were to be an infallible being, why did we need to write another version of his infallible book? You do realize the problem this creates? Furthermore, who wrote the book? Men?

Good, so we've gotten that far. How do we know what they wrote was that of God? Because of ancient documents and manuscripts.... such as the Old Testament? But I thought the OT was NOT God's word and was instead..... you see how little of sense this makes?

You can't just seperate the two as if they are not related or have no correlation - but then again, this is what religious folk do. They don't care about consistency. They don't care about objectivity.

"Just love, man, and let Jesus take your hand, son, and uh, let's chill, man."

I don't believe Jesus ever walked this Earth and to claim to "know," what happens after life or "know," what/who God is/are, to claim to have found the truth in a book (that people so often seperate and cherry-pick at the discretion) - get real.

Only an idiot or someone brought up and raised (indoctrinated) around this # are the only ones to follow it.

Oh, and I feel this way about ALL religions. If you're going to join a cult, join a friendly one like the Mormons.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:28 AM
link   

originally posted by: mOjOm
Being able to claim they don't follow the OT whenever it suits their argument makes for a nice way to avoid being caught in arguments. But that hardly means anything other than they created a sweet little loophole to escape through when needed.


I would be the first to call them out on their bull#. The ones I have debated here have been pretty consistent over the years.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:29 AM
link   
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Why on earth are you arguing what the Bible says? Does the Koran really call for the death of homosexuals or can you twist that to mean what ever you want too?

If you don't twist it, at least some homosexuals are to be put to death. If you are allowed to twist it, then it can also be read as calling for the death of all homosexuals, even by Christians.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:29 AM
link   
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Why on earth are you arguing what the Bible says? Does the Koran really call for the death of homosexuals or can you twist that to mean what ever you want too?

If you don't twist it, at least some homosexuals are to be put to death. If you are allowed to twist it, then it can also be read as calling for the death of all homosexuals, even by Christians.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: VP740
Why on earth are you arguing what the Bible says?


Because I want to.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:30 AM
link   
a reply to: AMPTAH

So it's okay for God to kill people because he is perfect and therefore able to judge them accordingly?

Wtf? That's bat-#.



new topics

top topics



 
11
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join