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Fury as watchdog says it's OK to send gay people death threats – but only if you're Muslim

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posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 10:55 AM
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originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
No there is. It says men who lay with other men should be killed.,, Have you read the Old Testament? It also has God telling the Israelites to commit genocide..


I am strictly arguing this from a Christian perspective since the Original Poster mentioned the religion. The New Testament supposedly nullifies all of the Old Testament laws.




posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 10:58 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Profusion

When pointing out the Old Testament laws to Christians (which I am not) the usual tact is that Jesus nullified all of these when he created the new covenant.

Which way are we going to go on this?



Whichever one suits the need at the moment.

Duh.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:00 AM
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Ya gotta admit that Christians have adopted a much more moderate approach in the interpretation of the Bible. There will always be the few that get carried away but as a whole Christians are a very tolerant bunch.
Islam, we'll not so much. It's better but there are still way to many strongholds sticking to the old ways.
edit on 3-12-2016 by Bluntone22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

The original meaning and the correct translation of Leviticus 20:13. as dissected word by word. As the translations of this verse found in most English Bibles cannot be supported by the Hebrew text.


It can be seen that, rather than forbidding male homosexuality, it simply forbids two males to lie down in a woman’s bed, for whatever reason. Culturally, a woman's bed was her own. Other than the woman herself, only her husband was permitted in her bed, and there were even restrictions on when he was allowed in there. Any other use of her bed would have been considered defilement. Other verses in the Law will help clarify the acceptable use of the woman's bed. (Lev. 15.)


www.hoperemains.webs.com...

The early church revisions were made to support their believes.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Profusion

When pointing out the Old Testament laws to Christians (which I am not) the usual tact is that Jesus nullified all of these when he created the new covenant.

Which way are we going to go on this?


You wrote "There is nothing in the Bible about killing homosexuals." I made my point. Whether or not Christians are expected to follow Old Testament laws is a controversial issue. Please see the article linked below.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I'm taking the position that's described in the article linked below.

No, Jesus Did Not Soften the Old Testament–In Fact He Did the Opposite, and Here’s What That Means
edit on 3-12-2016 by Profusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
Whichever one suits the need at the moment.

Duh.


Yeah, you do have the numpties that like to do that.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:04 AM
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originally posted by: Profusion
You wrote "There is nothing in the Bible about killing homosexuals." I made my point. Whether or not Christians are expected to follow the Old Testament laws is a controversial issue. Please see the article linked below.


The argument will be applied to the article. If you are going to tackle a subject at least understand the counterpoint that will be presented. I have discussed this plenty of times on his forum from your standpoint and no longer try to apply the Old Testament to most Christians as they all return pretty much the same reply, that Jesus nullified all of the laws it contains.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:04 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
Which part was he grossly mistaken about?


Mr. Raggedy addressed this above.


No he didnt

The old and new testaments make up the Christian bible, the poster claimed the bible advocated the killing of gays and it does.
He wasnt grossly mistaken at all, you were



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
No he didnt


I think he did. His answer is the standard one given by most Christians when discussing Biblical law. The do not use the Mosaic, only Jesus' teachings.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:07 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Profusion

In a shocking move, the taxpayer-funded hotline said it would not pursue a criminal complaint over horrific messages from radical Islamists because the Koran says gay people can be killed.

The disgraceful stance came to light when a member of the public complained about death threats posted to an online forum which called for homosexuals to be “burned, decapitated and slaughtered”.

Dutch MPs today reacted with horror to the revelations, demanding an immediate inquiry into the remarks and calling for the hotline to be stripped of public funding.

LINK


The Bible says that gays should be killed too (Leviticus 20:13). This illustrates the difference between most Muslims and most Christians. To my knowledge, almost all Christians have evolved past the inhumanity of their favorite book...most Muslims in the world have not. That is the biggest problem with Islam. I sometimes wonder if the Bible isn't almost as bad as the Quran at its core. Thankfully we don't have to worry that because Christians and Jews .


It's amazing how you quote the Old Testament book of Leviticus that was written to and for the Jews and suggest it's also written as a law to christians, it's not amazing it's tragic

You have no clue what you are saying sadly or understand

Christ taught love to Christians, even to love homosexuals.
Christians are not under Jewish law, none of those laws, zero
Try and understand the beliefs of Christianity before you butcher it up with ignorance


So how do we know what laws we should follow?
The 10 commandments were in OT yet I assume they still count

Im not religious but Im genuinely curious about this, where in the bible does it say all old laws are null and void?



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:11 AM
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WHAT....
So if one of these radicals actually kills a gay will that also be over looked because it says so in the Koran..!

This world is getting worse day by day, everybody has the right to live their own life.

I do know Christians that also believe this madness and you can see the HATE in their eyes when they talk about gays.

I am glad my GOD is very different to theirs, very glad.

TPTB are loving all this hate going on today!!! Merkel must be doubled with laughter



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The truth is that nowhere in the bible it say that homosexuals should be killed, Nowhere the translation from the original Hebrew was twisted to support the death of homosexuals


The Hebrew original text didn't have anything in the old testament on the subject.


edit on 3-12-2016 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:12 AM
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The Bible is not an instruction manual.
It's just a guide written by men that didn't have the whole story.
Each had a piece.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:12 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Profusion
The Bible says that gays should be killed too.


There is nothing in the Bible about killing homosexuals.


Old Testament does have that provision. Thing is that the New Testament happened, and the teachings of Christ are that we should follow the spirit of the law not the letter and the He came to fulfill the Old Testament Law.

These days we say hate the sin, not the sinner. So you get the teaching that homosexual activity is still wrong/sinful much like a host of other things in life, but no one is going to kill you for it.

I think Sargon of Akkad on YouTube had the best reflection on the difference. Christian principles are set up more as rules or ideals to follow with the intent of making a person better as an individual and they are more internalized. Islamic principles are more externalized and meant to be applied to control everyone around you as much as yourself.

So, yes, a Christian might express that homosexual behavior is a sin if asked, but they aren't generally going to act to stop it. And, yes, there are always going to be those sanctimonious twits and the absolute d-bags like Westboro, but you find them in any group.

A Muslim on the other hand might very well try to throw a homosexual off a building because their rules are more control oriented and externalized. The hope is that we get more Muslims who are willing to keep their rules internalized like Christians tend to than the ones who want to use them to justify acting to impose control around them.
edit on 3-12-2016 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Profusion

In a shocking move, the taxpayer-funded hotline said it would not pursue a criminal complaint over horrific messages from radical Islamists because the Koran says gay people can be killed.

The disgraceful stance came to light when a member of the public complained about death threats posted to an online forum which called for homosexuals to be “burned, decapitated and slaughtered”.

Dutch MPs today reacted with horror to the revelations, demanding an immediate inquiry into the remarks and calling for the hotline to be stripped of public funding.

LINK


The Bible says that gays should be killed too (Leviticus 20:13). This illustrates the difference between most Muslims and most Christians. To my knowledge, almost all Christians have evolved past the inhumanity of their favorite book...most Muslims in the world have not. That is the biggest problem with Islam. I sometimes wonder if the Bible isn't almost as bad as the Quran at its core. Thankfully we don't have to worry that because Christians and Jews .


It's amazing how you quote the Old Testament book of Leviticus that was written to and for the Jews and suggest it's also written as a law to christians, it's not amazing it's tragic

You have no clue what you are saying sadly or understand

Christ taught love to Christians, even to love homosexuals.
Christians are not under Jewish law, none of those laws, zero
Try and understand the beliefs of Christianity before you butcher it up with ignorance


So how do we know what laws we should follow?
The 10 commandments were in OT yet I assume they still count

Im not religious but Im genuinely curious about this, where in the bible does it say all old laws are null and void?


No, n not one OT law stands for Christians, none of them
Short of a couple of pages of theology and I am sure you won't read it I suggest a search on google
It comes down to the old covenant and the new covenant
The old was law, the new is grace

Jesus taught a simple law, do all things in love, that's it



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: marg6043

Really?

Youre gonna go with the translation from a pro gay Christian site that claims the bible just meant sleeping in the same bed and not referring to gay sex?

The passage clearly means gay sex, short of getting pornographic I dont think it could be any clearer


edit on 3/12/2016 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/12/2016 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:14 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
Thing is that the New Testament happened, and the teachings of Christ are that we should follow the spirit of the law not the letter and the He came to fulfill the Old Testament Law.


Which is what I posted.

I find it kinda funny that I am arguing from a Christian perspective when I am not one.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:15 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
Really?

Youre gonna go with the translation from a pro gay Christian site...


No, I am going to go with what the preponderance of Christians will tell you, that the new covenant nullified most of the Old Testament's laws.



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:17 AM
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a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

Pro gay or not you can not change the original worlds in Hebrew they are the same, now the English translations did that, they change the worlds in order to follow an agenda.

V’ish asher yishkav et-zachar mishk’vei ishah to’evah asu shneihem mot yumatu d’meihem bam.



(Transliterated using modern Israeli Sephardic pronunciation.)



posted on Dec, 3 2016 @ 11:19 AM
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Why is this even an argument??

We all know very well that practically everyone uses various parts of the bible and leaves out what they don't like. Or twist it to mean something different. There is no consensus or agreement between churches or even within Christian teachings as a whole. That's why there are so many versions of it out there.

So arguing about it doesn't even matter. Do some use the OT and NT??? Yep. Do some only use the NT??? Yep. Do some think killing gays is ok??? Yep. Do some think it's not ok??? Yep.

What's to argue???



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