The Kid's yours, beat them up as much as you'd like

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posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 08:11 PM
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I'm sure some of you just watched the O'Reilly factor and know where I'm going with this since reading this sentance. That was the source that clued me into the information, now I want to present it to y'all to explain what caused America to value these people as second class property while at the same time protecting other minorities so much so that you can't even say anything against someone who happens to be part of that group without being evicerated by anyone nearby, if not sued.

I'm talking about children. This isn't an abortion thread, I'm talking about kids who have been born, and are under the age of 17. There are far too many cases where severe child abuse, if not murder, take place, and no one is charged, or if they are, they're getting probation. Bill O'Reilly talked about 3 examples. In looking on the web for those examples, I've come across many, many more. I was hoping it was another of those O'Reilly attacks on a minor problem by making it seem like the norm, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

In New York, a 13 year old mother couldn't get her infant to stop crying, so she threw the baby out her window into an ally and went to school. She has not been charged with any crime.

In San Diego, a couple were charged with locking their son in the trunk of their car when they would go bar hopping at night. They would also keep the kid in there for 5 or 6 hours straight on several other occasions. They would smoke pot in front of the child as well. 7 counts of felony abuse were leveled at these parents, along with several other charges. They were found guilty. The charge? Probation.

I don't remember the third example from O'Reilly, but here are a few of the ones I've found since searching.

Tiffany Fairris got herself a divorce from her hubby and went to live with some other fellah. She got custody of their children, and would call her Ex, Eric Horridge, and, as this article in the United Press puts it, taunt him by slamming his 19 month old baby boy into walls and bash him in the head with the phone. There is no allegedly in this, it's gone to court and the case is done. Horridge made more than a dozen calls to the county's child protective services filing complaints against the child's mother. The caseworker finally told him to stop calling, saying he was a disgruntled ex-boyfriend.

Finally, he was going to kidnap his children. He set up a time where he would get his son for the day, and had no intention of ever bringing him back. That was the plan, but unfortunately, that night Colin, his son, was killed. The county coroner said it was a homicide. Their daughter, Erica, detailed for cops the beating that her little brother underwent, though she was only 3. Fairris and Fowkes (the boyfriend) were charged with child abuse and murder. Fowkes was acquitted; the charges against Fairris were dropped. No one has been charged for Collin's death, which the medical examiner ruled a homicide.

(don't feel like paraphrasing the next one
)


In 1997, national media attention focused on an apartment in the tiny suburban community of Germantown, Md., where Montgomery County police opened the bedroom door to discover a severely malnourished kindergartener Richard Holmes, chained to his bed. The boy had been confined to the room for up to 23 hours a day, fed a diet of hot peppers and whiskey by his father, Alan, a volunteer firefighter, and his father's girlfriend, Alba Scarpelli. Richard's legs and arms had been bound with duct tape for so long he couldn't walk.

In Richard's case, administrators and teachers at Lake Seneca Elementary School, which he attended, filed more than a dozen complaints detailing their suspicions. The boy was fishing food out of garbage cans. His nails had been cut so short they bled. He was black and blue with bruises and ligature marks. Finally, he stopped coming to school.


This is horrible. Absloutly horrible. So what is causing this? What in our culture is allowing this to happen to children and, despite mountains of evidence, no one is held accountable? I'd like to hear some of your opinions before stating mine, because currently mine is very dark and pessimistic, and I'm hoping someone here can convince me I'm wrong. It seems kids today are being treated as property, where the parents can do with them as they please. I know there are many cases where people are charged, but the fact that there were over 114 cases in 2003 of obvious child abuse where no one was charged and the children, despite multiple calls to DCFS, were never removed from their families. That's 114 too many. I can't find statistics for 2004, but I suspect they'll come out if there's much of an outcry over O'Reilly's segment. However, I don't typically watch him and it looked like it may have been a recuring segment. What a horrible, horrible shame...

[edit on 1-26-2005 by junglejake]




posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 10:47 PM
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that's absoloutly sickening, the parents should be getting jail time for such gross abuse. other prisioners having children themselves would not make life easy for them.


I'm an Australian, and watch fox news for a laugh sometimes, bill is a closeminded fool, i'm sure no one takes him seriously


[edit on 26-1-2005 by Azza]



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 10:51 PM
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Robert Blake was abused as a child, and didn't realize it until many years later, repressed memory.
Is that what we can expect from abused children minus the success and adding the murder plot?



-------I watch too much biography channel.

[edit on 26-1-2005 by Prince_Machiavelli]



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 11:24 PM
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In the US, you have Social Services, I guess it is still called. I have heard of people calling in and reporting abuses. Social Services contacts the child abuser and tells you when they will be coming. And by the time they get there, bruises can heal, and the signs of abuse can diminish. So, "of course" there aren't any signs of abuse. Oh, but refuse to give your kid powerfull mind altering drugs like Ritalin and you can be labeled as a child abuser. Bad stuff.

And you can see silly stuff like this in the Judicial system. You find the bloody knife that Bob killed his wife with, with Bob's fingerprints all over it, and other proof. "Did you have a search warrant" might be a question. And if there was no search warrant, evidence can be thrown out. Evidence is evidence. This privacy stuff is unreal, if it helps find Bob's wife's killer then by all means, search Bob's house. If Bob didn't do it then, he has nothing to hide regarding the killing of his wife.

UUghhh! The system!

Troy



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 11:49 PM
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What a horrible, horrible shame...



its not just a horrible shame, its crime! where is dubyas "war on child abuse"? Crimes against children should be priority one, full stop!



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 11:58 PM
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Holy cow, that was unexpected! Heh, I guess people will blame Bush for anything. A judge makes a ruling, what the heck was Bush thinking allowing that to happen? A cop decides not to charge someone, what the heck was Bush thinking when he allowed that to happen? A school doesn't report signs of child abuse, what the heck was Bush thinking when he allowed that to happen?

Unless, of course, you're answering my request for an opinion as to why this happens. It's an interesting opinion, if that's the case, but not supported by the dates which state that child abuse was taking place before GW became prez. Personally, I blame society. There is far too little outrage, so nothing is going to change. As for the root causes, I'm still waiting for someone to share theirs before I share any of my ideas.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 12:14 AM
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No need to be paranoid, not "blaming bush" just asking where his great and holy "do no wrong" prioritys lay!

someone worships Allah ~ what the hell was bush thinking allowing that to happen?



As for the root causes, I'm still waiting for someone to share theirs before I share any of my ideas.




Why? Will it change what you say/think?


[edit on 123131p://190112 by instar]



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by instar

Why? Will it change what you say/think?



I really hope so. Right now the idea running around in my head is such an unlikely vast conspiracy that I'd start to fit in really well here at ATS. I'm looking for other ideas, because my mind for some reason is stuck on this one idea and won't leave and think of others. When my mind does that, I go to others to brain storm for me. I'm too biased; I may miss a perspective that is very accurate due to that bias.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 12:49 AM
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really hope so. Right now the idea running around in my head is such an unlikely vast conspiracy that I'd start to fit in really well here at ATS. I'm looking for other ideas, because my mind for some reason is stuck on this one idea and won't leave and think of others. When my mind does that, I go to others to brain storm for me. I'm too biased; I may miss a perspective that is very accurate due to that bias.



I applaud you for that !

I dont know why folk think any major problem of humanity must be a vast conspiracy. A vast conspiracy against who? we are all humanity, any "vast conspiracy" to abuse children for any reason is surely a conspiracy against humanity in general. Are you hinting at Et conspiracy?


The reason i think is failure and loss of morals in society, loss of family values, etc etc. Child abuse has always been around but im sure its far more prevalent today as a result of social chaos than it ever was, even if i have no cleverstatistics to back up that claim.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 12:58 AM
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Quite simply, I can tell you exactly why I came to the vast conspiracy problem. The wizard's first rule. People will believe that which they want to or fear to. This idea in my head is a combo of both aspects of that. Part of me wants it to be true because it would give me a lot of ammo in debates, however, I also fear that it's true. Recognizing these elements, I am holding my little theory with a grain of salt. The only problem is it's the only reason I can think of for this to be taking place across the nation.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 01:04 AM
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The only problem is it's the only reason I can think of for this to be taking place across the nation.


does your conspiracy theory take into account that child abuse is a global problem, not limited to the US.? For this reason I keep coming back to the possibility that ET is involved in your conspiracy theory, is it/they?



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 01:10 AM
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lol no. I'm not talking about the child abuse. Child abuse happens. There are some really, really sick people out there. I'm talking about the lack of charges by a legal system that very specifically addresses these crimes. It's as though there's a concerted effort here in the US to devalue children. So my crackpot conspiracy theory?

No, it's not the NWO, I don't really buy into that. More an effort to move towards where Sweeden is on the issue of abortion. In sweeden, you have pretty much a recipt for your kid, and have a year in which to "return" it to non-existnce. The thing is, the more I think about it the less and less likely that idea seems. There is a concerted effort to keep killing babies, but I don't think it's that wide spread. Sigh, I just wish I could think of another reason for this to be happening across the country.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 01:19 AM
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Junglejake, I'd be interested in hearing you take on spanking. Obviously the examples cited in your prior are extreme and terrible crimes of violence, so it may be a little off the topic of the thread, but I really do wonder where folks these days draw the lines between abuse and discipline. What about a spanking? I have had disagreements with my father over how I should discipline my children, which I always find ironic as I had been on the recieving end of his belt, adn the paddles of my teachers many times. I think alot of parents adn now educators live in fear of crossing some kind of vaguely defined legal lines, but as a parent I know that sometimes kids need a straight out butt busting. I can honestly say I benefited from a strict environment and the occasional switching, but there are alot of folks out there that are horrified by the concept of coporal punishment. What are you guys' take on it?



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 01:31 AM
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Spare the rod...

Spanking I'm cool with. I don't know that I could do it, but I don't have kids, don't know what their personalities will be like, and don't know if spanking will be the only way to get through.

My sister and I were both spanked as children, and there was one time my dad used a belt. It was incredibly effective on my sister. She shaped up right quick-like, and usually never did the thing that got her in trouble again. I, on the other hand, got pissed at it and would try to make my dad even more angry.

My mom, on the other hand, was the calm one. She would come at us simply to talk about what we did, why it was wrong (we had to answer that), how we can prevent ourselves from doing it in the future, etc. This worked incredibly well on me, but not on my sister. She'd say all the right things, get the conversation over with, and go do it again.

So I don't condemn spanking or anything like that, but I do think it should be based on the child. After all, it had the exact opposite effect on me than was intended.

Spanking, belting, and paddling, though, are nothing along the lines of storing your kid in your trunk so you can go get drunk and not have to hire a babysitter. It is sad that parents are afraid to spank their kids now due to potential legal action. What's interesting is in "bad" neighborhoods, where there is a lot of gang activity and kids doing just downright bad things, the cops won't charge parents for anything along those lines. A cousin of mine did something and was being nailed with a belt on the bottom, then she called 911. A cop was dispatched, and showed up at the house. He asked what happened, told my uncle he wished more parents were like him and left. He did go there, though, which was good. After all, it could have been a legitimate abuse case. He talked with them for a while before letting it go.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 02:52 AM
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junglejake, Child Abuse, it's a scar that will continue to repeat itself as a result of ones upbringing, I came from a very ugly childhood, I experence a great deal of it along with my Brouther/and Sisters as well. I don't wish to go into details of it, but take my word for it I know, and feel the pain all over again when I hear of these cases of abuse... God it hurts!
However, it had such a profound affect on me as a child that even then at the age 8 years old I made a promise to myself, it happens to be the only one that I know never broke... (for myself) I will " Never " let the fear/pain/hunger/shame/neglect ever come to my child... I knew then how to change it.... Never repeat it for it was wrong... so wrong I hated my parents for a very long time, It took me into my adulthood to get over that hate. I had to get over it, and did..... But what help was knowing I did not have qualified _Parent's, Yes thats the difference and I stand by that assistment.... we have people that walk this earth that has no ability to raise children and should be deprived of that right... Sorry it's true!
It seems that we have a License for just about everything esle in this world or a degree or some form to be qualified for what we do except for Bringing children into this world and and provide for them as Parents.. It's a tough call, but I could make it! To be honest, I glad the doctor that delivered my sisters baby could see that she was a unfit mother and took steps to see the right people knew about it right out the gate... Thank God for his insight and caring deed. Now that child stands a chance! Was it her fault? no, it was my parents, My other Sister, abused her children similar to our upbringing (I was not aware of it she lived out of state or I would of done something about it) And end up to realize that when I went to her Wake... she drank herself to death... (could not go over her past) I could go on about this all night but I must stop now... If I don't, I feel hate going into these fingers and I don't want to repeat that, I perfer to keep it in a repress Gray Matter that it never belong there in the first place.
Thanks for asking JJ. Later..
Jessemole



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 05:17 AM
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Junglejake are you thinking its a population control conspiracy? Please fill us in, ya got me hooked now!



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 09:02 AM
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JJ, I don't want to step on your toes on this, however your thought process happens to be somewhat similar to my Question here....

Could there be a resolve as a result of this?

I go back to this site as a result of a very good question that was presented.... ATS: High IQ members and the nature of intelligence >>

Taking into account on the bases of your intellingence, and how it controls your daily life, and the way it affects those around you... What would be the one most Passion, desire you have and wish to express here in a resolve to our current World problems, a solution that you could (only in words right now) find your True added value? As simple as it may be, or as complexed as it is. Think about that for awhile, and I will get back to all of you with hopes of hearing the " One Thing You could Change... Regardless of your position in life right now! Just one Effort on your behalf to make a difference in Your/Our IQ. Otherwise it could go to waste! Along other aspects of our life!
Maybe someone will hear you, and run with that info and make a change!
So far, all of you have made a difference in my life by hearing you! We can talk the talk, can we walk the walk. Right Now there are allot of people in postions that can't, and make a difference to all of us on shortsidedness...
Speak your mind on this... right down to the uglyness that exists right now that you could change if you could!

The floor is yours......................
Jesse

With that said again JJ, I think our intent here is of the same....

I wanted to have that "One" of many problems to be touched on. I'm looking for answers to.... Just to get it done has to start with someone. You have made it clear, you take it above the normal. Where would you like to go with this? I'm willing to have my thread closed, and direct all others here to have Our questions answered... I'd like to make it simple, but effective.

[edit on 27-1-2005 by jessemole]

[edit on 27-1-2005 by jessemole]



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 10:46 PM
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Way to go JJ, You have scared everyone away from this topic, or is there a more important one I'm missing?



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake

More an effort to move towards where Sweeden is on the issue of abortion. In sweeden, you have pretty much a recipt for your kid, and have a year in which to "return" it to non-existnce.


Could you explain this some more please, im from Sweden and I've never heard of this "recipt"


Ric

posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by instar

What a horrible, horrible shame...



its not just a horrible shame, its crime! where is dubyas "war on child abuse"? Crimes against children should be priority one, full stop!


Its right below his personal aspirations





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