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Social "Security" - Will it be there for YOU ??

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posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 06:08 AM
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(Rewind, 10+ years ago...)

I remember about the only true "argument" I ever got into with Dad was over Social Security. I loved and respected Dad dearly; he was always my hero, so a true fight was something notable. I forget the exact line of the discussion, but at one point he got really frustrated and asked me point blank...

"So, am I to understand that you don't believe Social Security will be there for you??? Do you actually believe that???"

and I told him...

"I have exactly zero confidence that Social Security will be worth the paper it is printed on when I retire!"

He literally came unscrewed (upset), I mean he was snarling/raving mad! In fact, I don't think I ever saw him so mad. It took me a few minutes to understand why he was so upset.

I tried to calm him down and understand why he was just so furious with me. Well, as it turned out, he wasn't really mad at "me" as much as he was mad at what I had said, and it wasn't the first time he'd heard it. He went on to say his unbridled anger was at the politicians who had effectively stolen what he had laid his very life on the line for during WWII...the future.

He was mad because when he heard it from others he could chalk it up to 'rambling non-sense' from some "dumb kid", but when he heard that from his own adult son it crushed him and it exploded in his belly like a fireball of anger. When he saw in my eyes that I meant exactly what I had said, and that I believed it, it made him question the value of the very real life and death sacrifices he'd made in his life.

Honestly, I almost cried that day. I hated to say that, but it was true. There's no way SS can be solvent in even 20 years, the math just doesn't work. The politicians have ROBBED America, and they've stolen the future from generations.

If Dad were alive today he would be even angrier still. He'd be angry at what we have just narrowly avoided with this election. We were just one tiny step away from the loss of this republic as a whole. I don't know if Trump will be the savior, but I do know with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that Clinton would have been our demise. He would have been furious beyond words that this is the same mentality which has allowed the decimation of Social Security and allowed people like Hillary Clinton to ever have any voice at all. Truly, every single thing he ever fought and nearly died for.

If he could have only seen what I saw that day, during that argument; I saw where we were headed. I am truly glad he never had to witness that, and never will. What a terrible, awful and horrific SHAME it is.




edit on 12/2/2016 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 06:15 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I'm planning (actively) my retirement.

In all our calculations, in all our budgeting, my wife and I are in NO WAY relying on social security.

If it's there, then that'll be a bonus. But I'm not holding my breath.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Yep, pretty much.

Just an unimaginable travesty and tragedy.

We've worked all our lives, paid without fail into this fund...and what will we have to show for all of that?

I guess if there is even a tiny sliver of silver in this dark cloud it is this...

At least some of those brave warriors who really did put their lives on the line to defend the republic will never have to witness that day. Sadly though, some of the younger generations of warriors are in the same boat as the rest of us.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 06:26 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

It's a broken promise.

Government took the money from our checks with the promise that we would get it back at some point.

Government basically stole the money and lied to all of us.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 06:26 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

In a word...

Precisely.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 06:35 AM
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And before anyone gets all lathered up about the politics in my OP, allow me to say this...

This theft wasn't perpetrated only by Obama, it wasn't only perpetrated by Bush, or even Clinton...no, this theft was perpetrated by the quid pro quo "ESTABLISHMENT". We ALL have to share in this future, not just Red and not just Blue.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 06:55 AM
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Anyone in their 20s and most in their 30s know that social security will collapse long before we're of age.

Many even are aware that Medicare will also fall apart before then.

Some are aware that usd itself well also go the way of the American dream...

But nobody has time to worry about that. Time for work, get your boots on... Gotta go earn that money for uncle Sam. No time to stop and think...



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 07:29 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Social security is a legalized ponzi scheme. Most people would have more money in retirement than social security if the funds contributed were put in a low yield investment instead diring their working years. Not onky that theyd have assets to leave ro their children.

Im 43. I dont include it in my retirement planning as i dont espect it to be there or govt will penalize me for being prudent in saving for retirement on my own ans then say i dont qualify for it because i am "wealthy"



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 07:32 AM
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Well, and then you have the crime of continually raising the retirement age.

And this is pretty much how they will ultimately solve the SS insolvency...they'll just raise the minimum retirement age to older than the average lifespan.

Problem solved!


ETA...I mean look, they're not far from it now! 67. Before long it will be 70, then 75...then 140.


edit on 12/2/2016 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 07:41 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I haven't looked at the math deeply enough to understand it, but so far I can't figure how it will become insolvent, other than its debtor (The Federal Government) defaulting.

The population continues to grow. Regardless of baby boomers being a large generation, the two most recent "defined generations" (Millennials and whatever follows millennials) are (or will be) larger than Boomers.

Realistically, if all the bills of borrowing can't be paid, the federal government would be best served defaulting on foreign governments with militaries, rather than a couple hundred million armed citizens with the backing of military personnel.

When I figure what I would do to an intruder trying to steal a couple thousand dollars from my home, or a hacker I found stealing $300 out of my bank account, I know what side I'd be on if someone tried to steal hundreds of thousands of dollars in SS money from me.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 07:55 AM
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It can't become insolvent because it is money from paychecks. I have been drawing mine with no problem and grateful. Our private pension was not effected by the 2008 crash but I have many friends who lost a lot. You never "recover" lost money. But the argument is over isn't it? The opposition opinion is worthless. The Republican controlled congress has the next two years to finally dismantle everything and fulfill promises.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:07 AM
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a reply to: dogstar23

It will become insolvent when they have to start borrowing money to pay the current obligations.

And what's happening right now???

They're borrowing money to pay the current obligations.

Not a whole lot of math to do there.

But you see, the government doesn't actually "borrow" money (except from you and me), they just print more. This devalues all the other dollars in circulation. So you get hosed from both directions. Not only is the cost of living increasing, but the value of the dollars used to pay those costs are decreasing. That works all fine and dandy for the government, but to retirees (current and future) this is an economic death spiral.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:11 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

I agree that it's not sustainable. I'm almost 50, and doubt that SS will be around for me. My latest earnings report says I've contributed a little over $100k in my lifetime, and so have my employers. That's $200k. My estimated benefits are projected at almost $2500 a month, or $30k a year. If I collect for 7 years, I will have exceeded mine and my employers lifetime contributions. Granted, that doesn't count the future value of that $200k, but still, there's no way that's sustainable, especially with people living well into their 80's and even 90's.

The earnings limit should definitely have been raised or eliminated long ago...just like the medicare portion.

Lastly, I see nothing wrong with raising the minimum retirement age by a month every year or two.
edit on 2-12-2016 by peter_kandra because: typos



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:18 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
It can't become insolvent because it is money from paychecks.


It shouldn't be! This is exactly what I'm talking about! These funds should be being paid out of a 'savings account' of monies already paid in. Having to use current payroll funds to meet obligations leaves nothing for the future generations (i.e. nothing is being deposited into the 'savings account'). Works just dandy for those collecting now, but what about the future generations???


I have been drawing mine with no problem and grateful.


I'm sure. Sadly though, you can't pat yourself and your fellow retirees on the back for the dollars you collect now. The government cronies already squandered that. No, you'll have to go thank someone currently employed. See? This is the problem! It's not sustainable.


Our private pension was not effected by the 2008 crash but I have many friends who lost a lot.


As did millions of Americans. However, this loss was not the fault of Social Security, but rather it very much WAS the fault of the very banks who stole all the money at the hands of government.




You never "recover" lost money.


That's not an entirely correct statement. You should say...you never recover lost "value". Money is just a tool, a mechanism to establish value.


But the argument is over isn't it? The opposition opinion is worthless. The Republican controlled congress has the next two years to finally dismantle everything and fulfill promises.


Opposition????? What opposition?? This wasn't a democrat or republican thing...it was BOTH of them! AND, it affects ALL of us, not just people of whatever "opposition" may exist at any given time. To believe anything less is selfish and living life with blinders on!!



edit on 12/2/2016 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: peter_kandra

They were saying that, that it won't be there, in the 70's, 80's, 90's and now. Reagan raised our taxes and said it would be fine. It will work as long as there are workers. And the republicans and Trump have promised lots of jobs.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I'm planning (actively) my retirement.

In all our calculations, in all our budgeting, my wife and I are in NO WAY relying on social security.

If it's there, then that'll be a bonus. But I'm not holding my breath.


My wife and I are similar to you.

I don't even consider SS a factor in our projections. If there's something there... that would be very welcome but I don't add a single dollar to our projected retirement income coming from SS.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:31 AM
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Not sure it will be there but I have saved every check stub -ever - since my teens and keep track of my SS tax. If it's not there, I'm suing somebody.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:33 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: peter_kandra

They were saying that, that it won't be there, in the 70's, 80's, 90's and now. Reagan raised our taxes and said it would be fine. It will work as long as there are workers. And the republicans and Trump have promised lots of jobs.



I agree they've been saying that for the past 3 decades, but the level of borrowing to cover SS payments was much lower and has been accelerating. Remember, it's not just SS for retirees we're talking about, it's also the MASSIVE increase in disability payments over the past few decades. I don't think that anyone would argue that there's certainly fraud and waste in those disability payments. Raising taxes only goes so far with 6.2% and not enough current workers to support current retirees. I forget the ration, but I'll try to find it.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:38 AM
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Right now we're about at 2 workers to fund 1 recipient. I'm 32, and I am pretty confident that by the time I am 45 we will be at 1 worker funding 1 recipient.

After that we will then see 1 worker funding 2 recipients and it will continue to expand in the wrong direction. That is the point at which the entire system is no longer sustainable.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: kosmicjack

I trust you won't be holding your breath when you do that, right?




edit on 12/2/2016 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



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