The Irrationality of Torture

And I might also add: immorality.

If something is purposeless and leads to no good and much suffering, we should call that immoral.

It's very simple: when you torture another human being, whether or not the person knows something useful in information: if you get the right person, torturing him may or may not lead to a confession. If you get the wrong person, you not only cause an innocent Human being to suffer, but also may likely yield a false confession, and thus, a false lead.

It simply does not make any sense to pursue a policy of torture, yet, many on the political right manically believe what the vast majority of neuroscientists and psychologists say is impossible: for a suffering consciousness not to be compelled to say something - anything - to make the pain and suffering go away.

And so it ultimately becomes a question of this: how sensitive are you to the suffering of another Human being? Not much? Is potentially useful information worth the injustice committed against another Human being? Is the equal probability of a confabulation and a false lead not a further problem that makes torture a useless activity?

To sum up my view, a society that wants torture has a sadistic-masochistic shadow that it refuses to acknowledge - for if it did acknowledge it, it would know where such a way of being leads i.e. to self destruction. The only thing that could preserve the pursuit of a torture policy is a sadistic mind that takes pleasure in causing another Human being suffering - where one mind looks upon the other mind from a position of manic enjoyment, seeing the other that it traumatizes as an 'object'. It is a cruel distortion of reality - a hiding from the simple truth that the person you torture is experiencing reality from a place of dire hopelessness - an enormously shocking blow to their consciousness, hopes and being - a trauma from which their nervous system will never fully recover. The delusion of the moment sacrifices the truth that obtains from the beginning to the end.

You can put emotions aside and see this as a 'practical matter' - and even from here, torture can be seen to be defenseless and without purpose.

Thus, a desire for torture is nothing but a vain and purposeless desire for evil.

Torturing is mostly done for one of the reasons:

- for pleasure. Usually followed by execution or death as a result of torture. See ISIS.
- to get information. This actually works. You don't even need to be looking for something specific. Torture something and you will get loads of info. Your just need to crosscheck everything because it is unreliable info.
- As punishment. The mild version is jail. If you think the subject will change your may call it correction. If not, it is simple torture.

My point is, torture is either just sadistic, sick, or a far extension of punishments/pressure most of us have performed in our life. Somewhere in between is where humanity ends.

a reply to: Astrocyte

I wouldn't go that far. Sado-Masochism can be enriching for the people that willingly consent. If both parties are aware of, and consent to sado-masochism, then there is no harm. It is only harmful, or evil, when a person does not consent. For me, the real question lies in what people will consent to.

A dilemma of ethics we've found ourselves in.

originally posted by: Astrocyte
And I might also add: immorality.

If something is purposeless and leads to no good and much suffering, we should call that immoral.

It's very simple: when you torture another human being...

"Do not do to others what you would not have done to you!" is an ethic, unconditional, born of unconditional Love.
Few there are in any government with any ethics whatsoever!

I won't speak to 'morality' as it is the sinsanity of judging other people, and I don't.

Interestingly, the use of 'prison' as a torture device, is equally insane as we have no free-will/choice!
Who and what we are at that moment manifest, despite our vain desires.
So torturing as a means of providing a negative lesson so you'll act differently in the future, is ignorant and insane!

So, when does friendly teasing, like with a car battery and jumper cables... turn into 'torture'? *__-
If the perp kidnapped your daughter, would you still be loathe to apply any and all means of... teasing?

I belive all types of torture is barbaric and anyone who thinks otherwise is barbaric as well. Do you really think it is right to harm another human being? They may think,look and act different, but in the end we are all part of one family and so all should be treated equally.

You speak of hard torture.

What about soft-torture. Like social-torture?

It goes on daily, those who are not deemed "perfect" by society are shunned, and left out in the cold with few to no friends.

Is that not the same thing as physical torture?

Neuroscience says it is.

You speak of hard torture, when in reality, the soft torture goes on daily, and no one bats an eye. We still ostracize those who are different from us. We ostracize those who we deem "lesser" then us. We ostracize those with handicaps, be it a speech impediment or a visual deformity.

Are those not forms of torture as well? Sure feels like it to those who endure it and sure feels like it when it is seen on peoples faces and witnessed in their unconscious actions.

It does not surprise me that a world that soft-tortures, also has no issues with hard-tortures. They go hand in hand.

Barbarity IS done both in defense and evil.

There are no excuses for torture. Its immoral in any scenario. Find another way to get intel. Put a bullet in their head if they are too dangerous to live.

Gen. Mattis was right, it doesn't work. You'll say anything to make them stop eventually. It is evil.

a reply to: Astrocyte

I Agree , Physical Torture for the Sole Purpose of Extracting Information from an Individual is not Only Morally Wrong , it is also Unreliable . I would think the use of Non Lethal Drugs would be a More Humane way of questioning someone for Information . Sodium Pentothal , and some Deceptive Questioning would be a better Solution , no ?

originally posted by: HammerTime47637
I belive all types of torture is barbaric and anyone who thinks otherwise is barbaric as well. Do you really think it is right to harm another human being? They may think,look and act different, but in the end we are all part of one family and so all should be treated equally.

Tell that to ISIS and several other barbaric religious fanatics around the world.

Astrocyte

Just wanted to say that I've been enjoying your threads lately... I look forward to seeing a thread with your name as the OP. Very interesting content inside each one of them whether I agree with the thoughts or not.

Thanks for writing them!
blend57

Well, if you feel so strongly about torture, then by all means you should go vegan. (If you haven't already.)

a reply to: Rhaegar7


Take a look at this...

www.smithsonianchannel.com...

a reply to: Astrocyte


Torture is of course wrong and as offered earlier there is such a thing as "hard and soft torture". In order to eat plants or animals we cause pain. The thing about prisons is how would you replace them and taking into consideration that when it
comes to its hardcore members they are convicted of harming people?