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Hell is a 404

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posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 11:16 AM
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I have spent the last two years digging into my KJV to see if the Hell theory holds up or not. I am a former atheist, raised in a damnationist church, a former member of an annihilationist denomination, and am now a proponent of universal reconciliation. So you see, I have seen this subject from every angle. I did not take "hell" at face value, but dug behind it to see what was really meant. God bless center-column references (CCR), for one of my early clues was the word "hell," footnoted in the CCR as "see Sheol." One thing led to another, and by the time I had finished, I had examined every book, every chapter, every verse of my KJV. I delved into Strong's and Young's concordances, non-KJV translations, the Oxford English Dictionary, church history, even Greek and pagan mythology. I may need an asbestos suit very shortly, but here are my considered conclusions:

1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation - therefore, Hell is uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5, John 1:3, and many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together – without “hell.”

2. In Genesis 1, it is stated six times that God saw that what He had made was good, excluding Hell as being possible, as the Creation could not have been wholly good had Hell been in existence. See Genesis 1:10,12,18,21,25,31.

3. The Creation is a hierarchy, not a contested prize, fought over by God and Satan. See Genesis 1:1, Job 1 & 2, John 1:3, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 5:13.

4. God made both good and evil – therefore, Satan did not make or create evil. See Genesis 2:9, Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6.

5. The Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell. See Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zechariah 3:1-2, Revelation 2:13, 12:9.

6. The prince of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is not Satan. See Ezekiel 26 - 28.

7. God warns of death, but not of Hell. See Genesis 2:17, 3:3, Romans 6:23.

8. All people die, but none of them go to ECT – only to the grave/pit. See every instance of personal death in the Bible, with “hell” (if present) properly replaced with “sheol” or “hades,” as so often noted in the CCR.

9. For the Hebrews, “sheol,” hidden, covered and unknown, was the state, condition or place of the dead. It was where the body returned to the dust and the spirit returned to God (Who gave it). See Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

10. ECT depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, and that comes, not from the Bible, but from Greek philosophy, from Socrates and Plato.

11. The Law given to Moses does not specify punishment in Hell, or warn of it. Punishments are delivered in the real world. See Exodus through Deuteronomy.

12. All the consequences of human disobedience to God are worked out in the real, here-and-now world – not in Hell. This includes destruction, perishing, God’s wrath and His cursings. See Deuteronomy 28:15-68, 30:19, Ezekiel 32:32, Romans 13:4.

13. Hell, by definition, opposes the Gospel (the Good News) because Hell can only be Bad News for those sent there.

14. Hell violates God’s Law, specifically the Law of the Jubilee, which sets all those in servitude free. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Romans 6:7,16.

15. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

16. Hell, like Babylon, is confusion. Hell is hot, but it’s cold as…Hell. Hell is bright with fire, but it is dark. Hell is separation from God, but MK Baxter has Jesus touring Hell, chiding the damned. To go to Hell, you must be dead, but to be in ECT, you must be alive, but you’re dead, and on and on…

17. God’s plan for the wicked is to destroy their wickedness, not send them to Hell. See Psalm 1:6, 7:9, Isaiah 1:18, Jeremiah 3:12, Habakkuk 1:12, Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 10:26-27.

18. Those who die are freed from sin, as prophesied by the Law of the Jubilee. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Isaiah 1:18, Romans 6:7.

19. God speaks of ransoming/redeeming ALL from death and the grave – without exception. See Psalm 49:15, Ezekiel 16:55, Romans 6:23, Ephesians 1:10.

20. God is both willing AND able to save all. Given that He is omnipotent, we can ALL look forward with confidence to our salvation. See Psalm 49:15, 86:13, 103:8-14, 136, Isaiah 1:18, 6:7, 25:7-8, 26:19, 33:24, 43:25, 44:22, 45:8, 55:8-9, 57:16, 64:6-9, Jeremiah 3:12. Lamentations 3:26-32, Ezekiel 11:19, 16:55, Hosea 13:14, Micah 4:5, 7:18-19, Ephesians 1:10, Philipians 3:21, Colossians 1:19-20, I Thessalonians 1:10, I Timothy 1:15, 2:4-6, 4:10, 6:13, II Peter 3:9.

21. God compares Himself to a cleansing or refining agent – either fire or soap. Therefore, all instances of supernatural fire should be interpreted as being for refining and/or purification, not damnation. Fire in the Bible is never Hellfire, but natural fire or God’s Fire. See Malachi 3:2-3, Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:15.

22. If God’s Fire is for baptism and refining, then that which is burned must be our carnal, sinful nature. It is symbolized by unfruitful trees, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble – by anything unable to endure the Fire. See Matthew 3:10-12.

23. Christians should not follow the Hell of the ancient, pagan religions, but follow the truth of God’s Word, which does not contain either the concept of Hell or even the word “hell,” except in imperfect translations.

24. When we dig out mistranslations and peel away misinterpretations, we find that Hell is a 404. With Hell so deconstructed, the Bible and God are both silent on Hell. See Numbers 23:19, John 14:2.




posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 11:26 AM
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a reply to: Lazarus Short




posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

Clever, and yes, I know what a 404 notice looks like. Do you have any comments of substance?



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: Lazarus Short

What is a KJV?
*EDIT*
Googled it, king James version Bible

edit on 1.12.2016 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 11:34 AM
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Thank you for this excellent post! This is very similar to my own belief regarding hell, but your research really helps to justify that belief. Will look into everything you wrote.


Especially interesting of how God, beholding his creation, saw that it was good, which would indicate no presence of a physical hell.



edit on 1-12-2016 by zosimov because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: Lazarus ShortYou are seriously beating your head against a wall. The beginning is a good place to start. The accepted chronology was that the new testament was first codified at the council of Nicaea in about 325 ad. That was supposed the first edition. Notice that word I used "edition", Not printing but they edited it, the missed out books and part books that they did not like. This has been proved many times with other gospels coming to light.
But since that time it has been translated many time, edited many times and you can bet your bottom dollar they added or left out portions that they didn't like. Now we come to the KJV, do you honestly think in the light of the facts I've just given you that the KJV is a book you can count on for empirical evidence. I think not.
Use the book, look at the temptation of Christ. The devil tempts him. Now the ongoing story is that the devil is the ruler of hell. Think on this. When tempting Christ the devil say " come with me and all of this will be yours" in saying that he extended his hand over the earth, so if you want to be pedantic about it you could actually say that hell IS the earth. We are already living in hell.


edit on 1-12-2016 by crayzeed because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: Lazarus Short

Deep and well researched.

I have heard that most people's modern conception of hell comes from Dante's Inferno and that early Christians and jews really did not have a concept of Hell.



I think this is the history channel doc I saw that said that about Dante. Have you looked at any references outside the bible?




posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: Lazarus ShortYou are seriously beating your head against a wall. The beginning is a good place to start. The accepted chronology was that the new testament was first codified at the council of Nicaea in about 325 ad. That was supposed the first edition. Notice that word I used "edition", Not printing but they edited it, the missed out books and part books that they did not like. This has been proved many times with other gospels coming to light.
But since that time it has been translated many time, edited many times and you can bet your bottom dollar they added or left out portions that they didn't like. Now we come to the KJV, do you honestly think in the light of the facts I've just given you that the KJV is a book you can count on for empirical evidence. I think not.
Use the book, look at the temptation of Christ. The devil tempts him. Now the ongoing story is that the devil is the ruler of hell. Think on this. When tempting Christ the devil say " come with me and all of this will be yours" in saying that he extended his hand over the earth, so if you want to be pedantic about it you could actually say that hell IS the earth. We are already living in hell.



The Dead Sea Scrolls include many OT books, and they are VERY close to what we had before they were discovered. In fact, the Holy Bible is the best and most accurately preserved book we have from antiquity. Many ancient books have a much smaller documentary foundation, and no one runs around stressing their errors. You and your ilk just want to get as far from God as you can, and invent reasons to do so. As for Satan, the Earth, and Hell, the Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell, giving the Earth as his field of operation. Good luck with your personal mythology.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: hubrisinxs
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Deep and well researched.

I have heard that most people's modern conception of hell comes from Dante's Inferno and that early Christians and jews really did not have a concept of Hell.


I think this is the history channel doc I saw that said that about Dante. Have you looked at any references outside the bible?



Remember that the works of Dante, Milton and Mary K Baxter are fictions, the products of their imaginations, myth and lies. Consider that Dante's guide through his imaginary Hell was a pagan Roman poet. I did look at a few things outside the Bible, but mostly kept my literary tools very simple.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 12:39 PM
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts and findings. I've always understood hell to mean a separation from God. Not so much an actual physical place, but a state of being - separated from His light. There can be no worse "place".



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 12:52 PM
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Hell is what you make of your own life by making decisions that are contrary to God's will. It is a state of being that is a natural consequence of wrong living. It can be internal, such as the torment of a guilty conscience, and it can be external, in reaping what you sow.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: NthOther
Hell is what you make of your own life by making decisions that are contrary to God's will. It is a state of being that is a natural consequence of wrong living. It can be internal, such as the torment of a guilty conscience, and it can be external, in reaping what you sow.


God never called those things "hell." Formally, "hell" has always meant afterlife misery, from the time of the ancient pagans to the present day. "Life as Hell" is a modern invention, piled on top of ancient myth. If life were really Hell, you would not be able to turn your life around, but you can.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 01:15 PM
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It will take days (which will be well worth it!) to read and study all the scripture you referenced. I look forward to doing it.

But, in the meantime, how do you interpret/understand Matthew 25:41
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

That's NIV, but the KJV says:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Sounds like a literal place in this reference. Thanks - I appreciate your thoughtful post.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: Lazarus Short

If life were really Hell, you would not be able to turn your life around, but you can.

Can you?

Some Christians would argue that the power of the Atonement is what turns your life around, through faith, and not necessarily by any action on your part--that you are quite literally "saved" from the misery you've created for yourself by divine intervention.

But that's not really what I meant--that "life is Hell". I mean that you can make a "living hell" for yourself through the consequences of your actions. Cease the actions, end the consequences (for most things--some consequences stay with us for life).



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: VegHead
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and findings. I've always understood hell to mean a separation from God. Not so much an actual physical place, but a state of being - separated from His light. There can be no worse "place".


SPOT ON BRO!...

Thanks....



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: Lazarus Short

S&F

I enjoyed your thread but was wondering my you left out the book of Daniel, Book of Enoch, and book of Revelation. Not to mention the millions of NDE who experienced a real hell. This hell that you do not believe in is mentioned in the last book of the bible.

As far as those who have been preaching for two thousand years that Christ is coming were all wrong. Why? They did not have a bible.... they listened to liars who could not interpet the bible and understand how to read prophetic signs. Not until 19th century is biblical prophecy clearly understood.

A day and time........ today is that day.

edit on 1-12-2016 by DeathSlayer because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 01:39 PM
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'Hell' is a state of mind where one has separated themselves from the knowledge of God, it is not a place where people are sent to suffer.

Sheol means 'asked for', we as a society are always asking for more, we are consumers who consume anything and everything we can get our hands on. Our current consumerist society is Sheol where people are always asking for more because of the void they feel inside themselves.

Material wealth is the veil that has been pulled over everyone's eyes, our materialistic society teaches that true value lies outside in material things when in realty real wealth comes from within ourselves.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: VegHead

But, in the meantime, how do you interpret/understand Matthew 25:41
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

That's NIV, but the KJV says:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Sounds like a literal place in this reference. Thanks - I appreciate your thoughtful post.


Look ahead to the Revelation (20:10), where it says that this same devil is tossed into the Lake of Fire. Therefore, the LoF is the "eternal fire" of Matthew 25:41. Further, the eternal/everlasting fire would be better translated as "age-long fire." A thoughtful look at that same verse in an interlinear version (see the Biblehub site) would show you what's what. Hell theology required eternity, so age-long was rendered to fit the church doctrine.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

If life were really Hell, you would not be able to turn your life around, but you can.

Can you?

Some Christians would argue that the power of the Atonement is what turns your life around, through faith, and not necessarily by any action on your part--that you are quite literally "saved" from the misery you've created for yourself by divine intervention.

But that's not really what I meant--that "life is Hell". I mean that you can make a "living hell" for yourself through the consequences of your actions. Cease the actions, end the consequences (for most things--some consequences stay with us for life).


I know what you mean, but as I said, all of God punishings are played out in the here-and-now. If you think I'm a pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die kind of guy, so be it.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 02:23 PM
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originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Lazarus Short

S&F

I enjoyed your thread but was wondering my you left out the book of Daniel, Book of Enoch, and book of Revelation. Not to mention the millions of NDE who experienced a real hell. This hell that you do not believe in is mentioned in the last book of the bible.

As far as those who have been preaching for two thousand years that Christ is coming were all wrong. Why? They did not have a bible.... they listened to liars who could not interpet the bible and understand how to read prophetic signs. Not until 19th century is biblical prophecy clearly understood.

A day and time........ today is that day.


I covered Daniel and the Revelation. I did not consult Enoch, as it is not in the KJV. Millions of NDE's are not Scripture - Hell in, Hell out. The Hell I don't believe in is NOT in any book of the Bible. "Hell" cannot be found in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek - it comes from the languages of ancient, pagan northern Europe. The word and the concept are overlays or inserts. Hell was used to replace "sheol," "hades," "gehenna" and "tartarus," but yours truly took the time and effort to dig into what "hell" had been translated from. Hell is still believed because people do not read their Bibles, and dig into what the critical terms mean.



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