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Student loan bubble gonna go POP?

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posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

Of course they are. It just means they are not special because mother and father can afford them to be special.

The things that make people special are not largely a result of their academic access, but their state of mind, awareness of self, and the way they treat others. However, if one has the capacity to learn physics, chemistry, biology, mathematics, the classics, history more generally or specifically, and a whole myriad of useful or important subjects, to a high standard, then one should be able to access that information, regardless of their ability to pay to do so. Why? Because a better informed population makes better choices.

When it comes time to discuss a plan for a new oil pipeline, or a new fracking site, and the population would not know a long chain hydrocarbon from a chain link fence, they cannot make choices about whether they would protest it or not, unless someone comes along to tell them that there are risks to the local environment and water table involved with these processes. Further to that, they would have to trust the individual who informed them, to be telling them the truth, and that is hard as hell when the evidence that is putting forward requires a certain degree of scientific acumen to asses for its legitimacy.

When it comes time to discuss abortion, or vaccines, or any number of medicine related topics, especially when it comes time to write to ones representative to request that he or she take ones position as their own on a given topic, it does help ones argument somewhat if it can be made without basic scientific fallacy being involved.

When it comes time to assess the efficiency of an economic policy, it is best to be able to take numbers as developed from a study, and check the work yourself to ensure that it is not, oh, say a few million dollars out here or there, or several billion for that matter, as is sometimes the case. History teaches the errors of the past and we ought to know by now that knowing where the failures were in times past makes it a damned sight easier to explain to folk why they ought not be made again and again, and over and over.

The more people who already know these things as a result of their learning, the more people who have the maximum of their storage capacity filled with solid information, the less easy the population as a whole are to dupe, to hoodwink, to blindside, to scam, to scheme from, to steal from, to be led down paths which end in nothing but torment as has been the case in times past.

How can you expect a population to vote wisely if they have been forced to put up with having the least possible information, despite being intelligent people otherwise? How can you expect juries to convict or free a suspect on valid grounds, understand evidence as presented, the law they are expected to follow in their verdict, well enough to do it right every time?

Everyone who can absorb and use access to detailed, high level information, anyone who might benefit from it even a little bit, damned well ought to be able to get at it, no matter whether they have money or not, and no, I am not talking about the scholarship kids, the lucky ones, but EVERY person who expresses sufficient capacity to make even the slightest little use of that information, because knowledge is power, and the population of a country should always have the maximum amount that is available, never the least.
edit on 30-11-2016 by TrueBrit because: Grammatical error removed




posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 05:07 PM
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As a 27 year old, many of you older people dont understand the dream we were sold...

Our parents and the people who went to college in the 90's were able to follow the plan. Go to school.. get paid.

We were sold that dream all our lives, if you work hard, and get a degree, you will walk out instantly with companies begging to hire you and pay you 50k plus off the bat.

we were sold that as kids, we were sold that all throughout high school... and at least in the beginning years of college, we were sold that as well.

We had no problem signing our lives away for 50-100k of student loans when by what we were told, we could pay it right back in 2-4 years.

I started college in 2007... then bam.. market dropped.. no one could get jobs... interest piled up on those loans while I made no money. I never even fathomed it was a possibility.

Now here I am... 27.. I make 50k.. things have finally gotten better.. but after all these years of my credit being sabotaged by this situation I can never buy a house. My student loan payments total 700 a month.. thats a third of my paycheck after taxes.. I have to eat.. pay rent.. pay for my car.. and insurance...

Of course I want student debt forgiveness...

Not because I dont want to honor the terms of my loan... but because I think it was sold to me on false pretenses.

My generation are now becoming the money makers..

How are we supposed to keep buying things, and keep the economy afloat, when our loan payments suck up all of our funds?



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: Lucidparadox

You should not have been penalised for wanting to make the best of your intellect.

There are so many pressures upon people to remain the least that they can be, pressures which are often applied by the very people who complain that kids these days are not motivated to achieve anything in their lives.

Seems you are damned if you go and get yourself an education, and you are damned if you do not. It is both wrong and right to make the best of your mind, to aspire to something other than what you may have known before, according to the impossible double standard being set by the blinkered.

It should not have been that way for you. It should never be like that for anyone.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 05:33 PM
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originally posted by: Lucidparadox
As a 27 year old, many of you older people dont understand the dream we were sold...

Our parents and the people who went to college in the 90's were able to follow the plan. Go to school.. get paid.

We were sold that dream all our lives, if you work hard, and get a degree, you will walk out instantly with companies begging to hire you and pay you 50k plus off the bat.

we were sold that as kids, we were sold that all throughout high school... and at least in the beginning years of college, we were sold that as well.

We had no problem signing our lives away for 50-100k of student loans when by what we were told, we could pay it right back in 2-4 years.

I started college in 2007... then bam.. market dropped.. no one could get jobs... interest piled up on those loans while I made no money. I never even fathomed it was a possibility.

Now here I am... 27.. I make 50k.. things have finally gotten better.. but after all these years of my credit being sabotaged by this situation I can never buy a house. My student loan payments total 700 a month.. thats a third of my paycheck after taxes.. I have to eat.. pay rent.. pay for my car.. and insurance...

Of course I want student debt forgiveness...

Not because I dont want to honor the terms of my loan... but because I think it was sold to me on false pretenses.

My generation are now becoming the money makers..

How are we supposed to keep buying things, and keep the economy afloat, when our loan payments suck up all of our funds?


You signed up for the loans. Loans are a calculated risk. It may work out or, it may not. The economy might or might not be afloat when you are in the market.

Screw loan forgiveness. You took a risk. Gamble. That is a risk YOU took. Nobody else. Nobody guaranteed you anything. This sense of effin entitlement has got to stop and this sense that others have to pay for your stuff when things get tough and don't work out as your gamble was suppose to is BS.

People like me that busted their ass paying their own way don't give a #. Not my problem. None of your problems are mine and none of mine are yours. Deal with the circumstances you created instead of bitchin about how your plan backfired and now you want people who pushed through it to pay for it.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 05:41 PM
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a reply to: LifeMode

You didn't push a damn thing if you did not come out with the same dollar amount of debt in the same economic circumstances. You likely lifted a four kilo dumbbell. Lucidparadox has a semi truck strapped to their waist and is dragging it uphill. Get over yourself.
edit on 30-11-2016 by TrueBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
Everyone who can absorb and use access to detailed, high level information, anyone who might benefit from it even a little bit, damned well ought to be able to get at it, no matter whether they have money or not, and no, I am not talking about the scholarship kids, the lucky ones, but EVERY person who expresses sufficient capacity to make even the slightest little use of that information, because knowledge is power, and the population of a country should always have the maximum amount that is available, never the least.


...and thanks to the internet, everyone DOES HAVE access to all the knowledge they could dream of. We're not talking about access to knowledge, we're talking about a document which confirms that you have been presented that knowledge in a structured manner and have been tested as to your understanding of that knowledge. Now, make all of that free and what's the end result? I worked my ass off to pay my way through college (and am still paying) so it means something to me. I'll be damned if I support the idea that anyone deserves to lessen the societal value of my diploma by being handed the whole thing on the taxpayers' dime.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: LifeMode

You didn't push a damn thing if you did not come out with the same dollar amount of debt in the same economic circumstances. You likely lifted a four kilo dumbbell. Lucidparadox has a semi truck strapped to their waist and is dragging it uphill. Get over yourself.


Spent four years on active duty USMC. That is what paid for my school. Crawled through a river of # to earn it. I would love to have only carried a dumbel almost any distance as opposed to that #. Then I joined the reserves for another river of #. Katrina, BP Spill, Afghanistan, other natural disasters....all without loans. Anybody can do it but most people won't. They will attempt to take the easy way out by taking out loans.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:02 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

So it's a status thing with you?

You only want people to have access to the education and proof of it you had, in small numbers so you still feel like you can wave your diploma around like an intellectual compensation for something?

Well that's lovely.

I am sure the future will not curse you for that STAGGERING selfishness.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: Lucidparadox

It's called "responsibility." Simple as that. You made a deal and you lost... it happens, but at the end of the day it is nobody's responsibility but the individual who signed their name to the loan papers.

The correct fix here is the same as it was for the housing bubble: recognition that not everyone is qualified for a massive loan on something that isn't worth the initial value of the loan, especially with interest. We need to reset the clock here... the federal government should never back or subsidize loans and those who do take out a loan which they suddenly cannot pay should have legal recourse to stand before a judge and ask for a bankruptcy judgement.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: Lucidparadox



We no longer live in a world where our politicians main concern are the people. They are too busy gathering re-election funds and feathering their own nests. Our manufacturing base has greatly shrunk.
With the loss of a factory a community looses:
The factory- taxes
The hourly general laborer looses their jib
The skilled Trades lose their job
The engineer lose their job
management loose their job
any contracting out fit looses their jobs
accountants
HR personnel
Then there is the trickling loss to the community, and it is legion.



I feel for you. They lied to you. Of course you were a blinded by the promise, and signed on the dotted line. The baby boom generation is still the fairy tail colleges are telling the newbies. It isn't true. There are not enough good paying jobs.

$50,000 ain't bad depending on where you live.

Pay the bastards back, and never let anyone talk you into anything again. You make the decisions. Buy a house to rent out, do some odd jobs for the elderly who can't anymore. It is all cash and they will pay you. There are a ton of ways a young person can scratch together some $$$.
edit on 30-11-2016 by seasonal because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

When everyone has a college degree, then every job requires one, and when everyone can have one, then whether or not you have one is no longer a dividing line between those who were willing to put skin on the line to get one and those who could simply warm a chair.

So then, the stakes are raised and it becomes a grad degree that most of the best jobs require ... or more.

Or, since so many people are now getting a public degree, it becomes about as good as the average public high school education is - which is to say crap.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:05 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: burdman30ott6

So it's a status thing with you?

You only want people to have access to the education and proof of it you had, in small numbers so you still feel like you can wave your diploma around like an intellectual compensation for something?

Well that's lovely.

I am sure the future will not curse you for that STAGGERING selfishness.


No, it's an income and responsibility thing with me. Selfish? Not exactly, more like tired of treading water while having to budget for redistributive hand outs to those who want something but don't want it bad enough to earn it themselves.

America is not a goddamned socialist hellhole, despite many who dream that it was.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

We could also clean up the degree programs at universities too, so that there aren't nearly as many worthless ones out there for students to fall into. At most, most of your "studies" degrees should at best be minors for example.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: LifeMode

Oh that's fantastic.

I will tell you what... If you went to University as part of your USMC time, let me tell you what you ACTUALLY did. You worked for a government which sends its military to do things that should not have been done, to people who were paid by your nations intelligence community and political insiders, as well as others, to do what they were doing.

And while you did that, you got an education that should have told you what a crap shoot being in the military during the War on Terror is. Clearly you learned not a damned thing from your time in education, because otherwise you would not boast about it, except to warn people not to hand over their time, their bodies, their lives or their free will to a military which receives its directives from the political establishment or any other nest of untrustworthy corporatist bastards.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

No it does not.

There will never be a time when a university degree is merely equal in depth of knowledge imparted, to a high school diploma. That is not going to happen, no matter how many people have one, or what jobs they can get with it.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: burdman30ott6

We could also clean up the degree programs at universities too, so that there aren't nearly as many worthless ones out there for students to fall into. At most, most of your "studies" degrees should at best be minors for example.


Community colleges. We need to return to an era in which state universities don't place eggs in the same basket as community colleges. If you want a 4 year degree in human relations, why in the hell take out $60k in loans to get it from a major school when you can get the same degree from a community college for $8-12K? Oh, that's right... major universities have a social element that's just sooooooo important. Bah! Get life experience on your own damn dime, "right size" your degree expenditures, and stop expecting the rest of the nation to pay for you like they're your mommy and daddy.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

And again, information, education should not ever have been considered commodities, nor should they ever have cost what they do to deliver. The fact that they have done previously is not your fault, but YOU are the one who took the wrong gamble. You paid for that which should not have had a dollar value attached to it.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:13 PM
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originally posted by: LifeMode
Spent four years on active duty USMC. That is what paid for my school. Crawled through a river of # to earn it. I would love to have only carried a dumbel almost any distance as opposed to that #. Then I joined the reserves for another river of #. Katrina, BP Spill, Afghanistan, other natural disasters....all without loans. Anybody can do it but most people won't. They will attempt to take the easy way out by taking out loans.


Thank you for your service to America, Marine. You're one of the good guys.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:14 PM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


And while you did that, you got an education that should have told you what a crap shoot being in the military during the War on Terror is. Clearly you learned not a damned thing from your time in education, because otherwise you would not boast about it, except to warn people not to hand over their time, their bodies, their lives or their free will to a military which receives its directives from the political establishment or any other nest of untrustworthy corporatist bastards.


Ah, irony ...

Do you know who send the military out on these errands of which you do not approve? The government! The very same people you would like to just up and pay for everyone to have a college education.

If we cannot trust them to handle the military in any reasonable fashion, why on earth can we trust them to handle paying for everyone to have a reasonable degree of college education or access to it?

This is inconsistent. Either the government is trustworthy or it is not. You cannot have it both ways.

Btw, do you know WHY there will never be free college? Not even with a Utopian Unicorn Fart government? Because the government now controls all the loans ... and makes lots and lots of money off the tears of the kids it bilks for payments forever and ever.

That same government you hate for its military is also the same one who demands payments in perpetuity from the students who get their underwater basketweaving degrees from Harvard. And these two positions are entirely consistent.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Heh, that "wrong gamble" has paid pretty well before taxes. Considering "free college" has exactly "jack" and "squat" chance of becoming a reality in the USA in the foreseeable future, I feel I took the right gamble.



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