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Did the leniency after the Civil War lead to our present North/South dynamic???

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posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:55 AM
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originally posted by: FauxMulder

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Floridagoat
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Dude you're seriously thick as a brick. The South wasn't trying to overthrow the Northern Union, Earth to Josh come in Josh!!!!



It's the equivalent of owning an apartment complex and one of your buildings decide. Screw you. We live here now and don't like your rules and rent. So we are keeping it...

Maybe you could factor in that you've been a crappy land lord, which is debatable..but reguardless. It is still your complex.. if they don't like it they move. They don't get to take your building.


That analogy is wrong unless you say that before it was a complex the individual apartments agreed to come together as a complex with the option of leaving. The landlord took away that option.


If someone could convince the sheep that the entire complex was racist except the one that "seceded" then people like Josh would champion the move.




posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Treason is when you betray your country and try to overthrow the government. The CSA seceded because they didn't like what the government was becoming. They wanted to secede and leave it at that. That's why it's referred to, as the gentleman below your OP stated, the War of Northern Aggression.



The south was soverign US soil...


If you take over a piece of a country but don't try to take the whole thing over. It is still treason...

Literally by definition..



Literally, by definition, treason is the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

I believe the act of secession was legal back in 1860 and wasn't deemed to be illegal until the north beat the South. The CSA didn't commit treason when they seceded.



treason Translate Button
[tree-zuh n]
noun
1.
the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2.
a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.(means country, not us type state).


The south was not independent. They were ruled by and part of US soverign territory.

Like I said by definition..both of them..

As they overthrew the US government offices and military bases in the south..


If you wanna be technical, the South formed its own government after legally seceding and they were overthrown by Lincoln and the north. So really, going by your logic, you're supporting treason.



They had to take it first and they were unable to hold it. They never had a government. They were usurpers who failed.


They seceded and the land became theirs, they formed their own government. Lincoln was losing so badly that he put out a letter that said any slave that escapes and makes it into US territory would be set free because he thought it would pull soldiers off their post and shift focus to capturing the slaves. It didn't work because none of the soldiers cared, they didn't own slaves and weren't fighting to retain slavery. They had other plans. The US had endless amounts of steel on their side, the CS had farm boys that had no idea where their next musket ball would come from. When the CS finally ran out of supplies for ammunition, they lost. No amount of strategy from Abe was enough to win outright. So, the CS were able to take it and win an unwinnable war, they just didn't have the supplies to last.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox




So that leads me to wonder if allowing those in power who chose to rebel to remain in power. Might not be the cause of the north /south , urban rural dynamic. If the US had instead chosen to execute and imprison those who commited treason, hypothetically only giving amnesty to those who were conscripted, would we have the same dynamic today??


They didn't stay in power. Look up the term 'carpet-baggers'. It refers to the northerners who came down to 'govern' the south. Without getting into a loooong history lecture . . . The Civil War/War of Northern Aggression was fought over this disparage and states rights (not over slavery) . . . I'll wait while you do some Real research. . . . . . . . . Ok, you back? Good, so now you probably understand that the Northern states would not allow the southern states access to manufacturing capabilities and even embargoed goods that would allow the South to compete with them economically (without slaves by the way), and did all of this in order to stay rich through the slave trade. You see, the people who made the most off the slave trade were Northern shipowners and slave traders (some from Britain as well) and Ayrabs over in Africa who were buying slaves from other tribes that had captured them.

Ok, I'm done.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox




No I mean when a bunch of traitors rejected the United States of America, disavowed the US constitution (and wrote their own) while trying to annex a third of US sovereign soil.


You could well be talking the birth of The U.S.

A bunch of traitors who committed treason against The British Crown and annexed British Sovereign Soil ( The 13 Colonies ).

So what is the difference.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

The North, who "won", was the party which was wrong and Treasonous. Were they going to punish themselves?



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

I'm on my phone and accidentally starred your comment. I'm pissed and embarrassed that I did because your comments are ignorant of historical facts. # off!



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 02:31 PM
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everything around us and in the universe deteriorates over time. Why should humans be any different since we are part of the universe?



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 03:45 PM
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The traitors to the Constitution were not in the south: they were in Washington D.C. 


And that is still true today. And will be until we the people can get lucky enough for a restart. .....



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 04:14 PM
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originally posted by: KEACHI
a reply to: JoshuaCox

I'm on my phone and accidentally starred your comment. I'm pissed and embarrassed that I did because your comments are ignorant of historical facts. # off!


I wonder how long until you figure out you can unstar a post?



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: LSU0408

exactly!
That`s why there were not mass trials of southern generals and leaders for treason after the war.
Lincoln was a lawyer and was smart enough to know that legally the south didn`t commit treason,and Lincoln was too ethical to try and convict southerners of treason in kangaroo courts.
The south wasn`t trying to overthrow the government of the U.S.A. they were merely trying to leave the U.S.A.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 05:56 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

So basically you are saying there should have been a great American genocide just after the Civil War, and you thoughts are that if we had done that and left the South littered with mass graves, then maybe there wouldn't be deplorables to vote for Trump, no racism at all, and we would by now live in a great socialist Utopia?



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 05:58 PM
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I'm 40 from Michigan. Most people here could care less about the civil war. It's not a common discussion. There are people here that dislike the federal government but overall most people trust in what it does. I'm not speaking for everybody I'm just giving a general consensus of the people I know.

I've been to the south a lot when I was younger. People down there still have a lot of resentment over the civil war. Where I'm from most people don't even care. My mom and I were called a Yankee's in Florida. We kinda laughed and were like "what did he just call us"?

My grandparent's came from Kentucky after WW2 to work in the factories in Detroit. One retired from Ford the other Crystler they bled UAW.

I remember going to my grandmothers sisters house in Virginia in the 80's. They lived on a farm in the middle of nowhere. The had an outhouse and only 1 working lightbulb. They were some serious hillbillies.

I've been all over the south when I was younger. My grandmother's second husband was from Georgia. It really is a different world down there. I remember walking into a store and people were looking at me like I was from outer space.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: wantsome

Maybe they heard you talk like a michigander, the only state that rates themselves as better speakers of English than the rest of the states?
Or if you are an average michigander, you are much more german looking than the english/scotts of the south.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox




Every civilization in human history has saved its most brutal and revolting punishments for one crime, and it doesn't matter what era humanity was in. From the Trojan war all the way up until the civil war (where America is concerned at least) one crime stood head and shoulders above the rest....at least in the eyes of the state. That crime is treason and/or rebellion.


This is incorrect. If this was true everyone in the UK/ireland would be dead, lots of civil wars and rebellions.

genocides after a war are typically used if their is a surplus population that can be moved there and popular opinion is not against it or is a strong armed dictatorship.
If there is not excess population to populate the lands killing the population dries up taxes, so it is not done all the time.

China has such a large population they have had no problem topping the charts in rebellion and civil war casualties



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: alldaylong




You could well be talking the birth of The U.S. A bunch of traitors who committed treason against The British Crown and annexed British Sovereign Soil ( The 13 Colonies ). So what is the difference.


The biggest difference is that the Southern States had the right to secede (it was even specifically written into Texas' annexation papers).



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 08:11 PM
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a reply to: wantsome

People from northern Michigan have a Swedish accent. A lot of people from Norway and Sweden homesteaded here. People from southern Michigan have a Slight Canadian accent. I guess it's better then sounding like a Billybob.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 08:24 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox

No I mean when a bunch of traitors rejected the United States of America, disavowed the US constitution (and wrote their own) while trying to annex a third of US sovereign soil.


By ANY definition from an American POV the south were traitors who commited treason.


Well, not so much. At the time, the Union was not considered to be monolithic. Federal power was not absolute. States felt they could leave the Union if they decided to. See also: Hartford Convention.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 10:35 PM
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originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: LSU0408

exactly!
That`s why there were not mass trials of southern generals and leaders for treason after the war.
Lincoln was a lawyer and was smart enough to know that legally the south didn`t commit treason,and Lincoln was too ethical to try and convict southerners of treason in kangaroo courts.
The south wasn`t trying to overthrow the government of the U.S.A. they were merely trying to leave the U.S.A.




Giving Lincoln too much credit. He had a kangaroo supreme court that he used to modify the constitution ill legally. it wasnt ethics that stopped him. it was james wilkes booth. A hero.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:13 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox


I rather tend to think that "If the government were to execute/imprison "those who committed treason" (you seem to be referring to the confederate post war)", that this would only worsen matters like throwing fuel on a fire. But maybe the south would not be what it is today, who knows.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 07:16 AM
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a reply to: wantsome

We get a chuckle out of the Nasal passage speaking that's all. One hung up accents might wanna watch the History Channel show that covers how each area in America got it's accent's, the southern Drawl is a slowed down English aristocracy accent, the speech coach on that particular show relates the subject matter quite well.

One thing that people often get hung up on is how different the people are in America. The rural southerner's are laid back, in no hurry, don't need to tell you a 3 page story in the first 1 minute of talking, etc.

And much is true of the rural northerner's are mostly laid back, take it easy type of folks.

I've spent enough time in and around big cities in the South and North to know it's not for me, and there's not much difference in Urban areas in regards to north vs south urban centers.

The poster talking about being called a Yankee in the south should take it as a compliment, i'm sure it didn't come along with additional comment's much like I have received once opening my southern drawl in Chicago, that ensued the average hilly billy joke, then the racist joke, then the love your sister joke, it is what it is and it's the nature of the beast within us. Lack of parenting and teaching morals leads to the children being taught hate instead of love. I raised my two to see humans and not skin color, and it's gonna take awhile to undo what has been done and passed down in regards to how each and everyone raises their children.

It's so true, it's much easier to hate then to love.



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