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White House Warns Against Blaming Religion of Islam After Ohio State Attack

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posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: ausername

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

The issues you speak of in those countries are political and cultural issues. Islam itself does not call for this division. The Quran does not call for this division. The Quran says that Christians should be left in peace, as long as they are not attacking Muslims.


That depends entirely on the interpretation of the Qur'an.

The strictest literal interpretations often lead to radicalization.


The same thing could be said about the Bible.

There is much violence in the Bible. There is much violence in the Quran.

The parts of the Bible that talk about violence are referring to a time before Christ came. The parts of the Quran that talk about violence are referring to specific battles in history involving Muslims. In both cases, the logical interpretation is that neither religion calls for violence today.




posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:49 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

"In both cases, the logical interpretation is that neither religion calls for violence today."

How many people do you assume are logical people or use logical thinking processes? That is your first failure right there.

ISIS is a form of extreme Islamic beliefs and those who support it do not use logical thinking.

Christians who burnt witches on stakes were extremist in their religious beliefs as well, and they didn't use logical thinking either.

There are thousands upon thousands of extreme Islamist who believe you should convert to their version of religion or die.

How is that not promoting violence? Just because you say that would be illogical simply does not make it so.
edit on R502016-11-30T11:50:45-06:00k5011Vam by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on R542016-11-30T11:54:24-06:00k5411Vam by RickinVa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:49 AM
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a reply to: AMPTAH

You see, the difference between the Bible and the Qur'an, is when you analyze support for violence in the Old Testament, Christians know that they aren't bound to that law anymore. A lot of Christian violence from 1000 years ago came from politics and control married into the religion. The evils in the name of old Christianity were due to people not reading the book but believing what their authority figures told them. And if they didn't listen they were executed.

Sure you can say the same thing about Islam now, but it is inherently a political ideology on top of a religious fundamental belief system. There is no 'old law' or 'new law' - it is just the Qur'an. Then it is to be paired with the Hadith and things really get cooking. Yes the Qur'an can be picked piece by piece and compartmentalized into peaceful sections... but the truth is is that it fundamentally will call for violence like what we see today.

The fundamental Christians call for their brand of morality by belief and abstaining from "sins". Anyone trying to press Christianity upon another physically is not reading the book.

The fundamental Muslims will want a complete political and law system set up which are completely barbaric, in comparison to Western culture.


It always tickles me when people compare Christianity to Islam, even 1000 years ago. Because the texts are quite different. I believe it's also a red herring and will never solve the world's problem of violence & Islam.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

Invalid comparison imo.

Although it is a comparison used often. Until you study the Qur'an and have seen how it is used to practice Islamic life within Islamic culture and especially in predominantly Islamic communities and countries. You can only pretend to know.

Reality tells us the truth, no matter how we try to discuss it.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:57 AM
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originally posted by: RickinVa

ISIS is a form of extreme Islamic beliefs and those who support it do not use logical thinking.



ISIS is a political group that wants total control. They use religion because it makes it easier to control and manipulate. They pull the most violent parts out of the Quran and twist it to make their group seem more powerful and "right". They use it to recruit people, and they use it to control people. The people most vulnerable to falling for their propaganda are those who feel disenfranchised and angry about the horrible lives they have.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:00 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: RickinVa

ISIS is a form of extreme Islamic beliefs and those who support it do not use logical thinking.



ISIS is a political group that wants total control. They use religion because it makes it easier to control and manipulate. They pull the most violent parts out of the Quran and twist it to make their group seem more powerful and "right". They use it to recruit people, and they use it to control people. The people most vulnerable to falling for their propaganda are those who feel disenfranchised and angry about the horrible lives they have.


Right,,,, so instead of calling them exactly what they are, Islamic extremists, we must refer to them as a political group, so the argument about religion doesn't apply.

Cherry pick much?
edit on R012016-11-30T12:01:12-06:00k0111Vpm by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on R012016-11-30T12:01:26-06:00k0111Vpm by RickinVa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv


originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: loam

You are correct that the acts of terror have nothing to do with religious belief. You are correct in your implication that the terror is done only "in the name" of Islam, not because of anything the Quran says. "In name only" does not mean that Islam has anything really to do with these acts of terror. These acts of terror are strictly political - not religious.


That's why the adjective 'radical' would be used.

This mental box you've put yourself in has little relationship to the real world and how people generally behave. In fact, your perspective produces the very outcome you are trying to avoid.

Please reread this post of mine: www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: RickinVa

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: RickinVa

ISIS is a form of extreme Islamic beliefs and those who support it do not use logical thinking.



ISIS is a political group that wants total control. They use religion because it makes it easier to control and manipulate. They pull the most violent parts out of the Quran and twist it to make their group seem more powerful and "right". They use it to recruit people, and they use it to control people. The people most vulnerable to falling for their propaganda are those who feel disenfranchised and angry about the horrible lives they have.


Right,,,, so instead of calling them exactly what they are, Islamic extremists, we must refer to them as a political group, so the argument about religion doesn't apply.

Cherry pick much?


You are delusional if you don't know that organized religion has always included an element of politics and control over the masses. Looking at Christian history, do you think the higher echelon in the Catholic religion were really all that religious? They were ambitious and power-hungry. It was all about power and control. They did so many things that were totally against what Christ taught. So many average people fell for the propaganda because they thought they were doing the right thing by following their religious leaders.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: marg6043

In the exact same vein, those islamic extremists are the same thing. They preach their correctness by using religion to justify their actions.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: RickinVa

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: RickinVa

ISIS is a form of extreme Islamic beliefs and those who support it do not use logical thinking.



ISIS is a political group that wants total control. They use religion because it makes it easier to control and manipulate. They pull the most violent parts out of the Quran and twist it to make their group seem more powerful and "right". They use it to recruit people, and they use it to control people. The people most vulnerable to falling for their propaganda are those who feel disenfranchised and angry about the horrible lives they have.


Right,,,, so instead of calling them exactly what they are, Islamic extremists, we must refer to them as a political group, so the argument about religion doesn't apply.

Cherry pick much?


You are delusional if you don't know that organized religion has always included an element of politics and control over the masses. Looking at Christian history, do you think the higher echelon in the Catholic religion were really all that religious? They were ambitious and power-hungry. It was all about power and control. They did so many things that were totally against what Christ taught. So many average people fell for the propaganda because they thought they were doing the right thing by following their religious leaders.


So we agree that ISIS, a group of religious Islamic extremists, is based on religion but operating as you call it a political force.

Doesn't change the fact that their leader, whathisname, is in charge of a bunch of religious Islamic extremists nutjobs.

You can call him the President or whatever political title that makes you feel better, of the nation of NonBelieversmustdie... I will call them exactly what they are: Islamic Extremists.

Makes sense to me.

As far as I know, no one refers to ISIS in an official state capacity.
edit on R242016-11-30T12:24:04-06:00k2411Vpm by RickinVa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: Riffrafter

The Catholics had no problems burning people at the stake. Don't forget the Salem Witch trials. And those are just the more well known examples.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: Martin75

Yea again. And as long as folks love to single out the actions of a few to paint the whole, i'm going to continue to bring it up because people are fine and dandy to talk smack about a group of people but soon as the shoe is on the other foot, then the litany of excuses come roaring out the mouths of naysayers.

And JUST LIKE those radicals, the KKK use their religion as a justification of their actions.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:26 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv




The issues you speak of in those countries are political and cultural issues. Islam itself does not call for this division. The Quran does not call for this division. The Quran says that Christians should be left in peace, as long as they are not attacking Muslims.


As long as they pay the Jizya tax. Taxing non-Muslims so that they may practice their faiths is a racket, and is "division" par excellence.

"Fight those of the People of the Book who do not [truly] believe in God and the Last Day, who do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, who do not behave according to the rule of justice, until they pay the tax and submit to it. (tr. Abdel-Haleem)

— Quran 9:29"



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: RickinVa

By refusing to associate ISIS with Islam, one is helping to de-mystify them to their religious followers. By hammering home their political nature, their followers will eventually realize that ISIS isn't about following Islam at all, it's about political control. This might actually stop many who are truly religious from following them.

By associating them with Islam, even as "radical" or "extremist", it confirms to their religious followers that they are doing the "right thing". Is this what we really want? Is this really the wise thing to do? I think ISIS loves it when we do this. I think it helps them immensely.

I say it's better to disassociate them from Islam altogether. It's better to only associate them with greed, power and political control.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:44 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: RickinVa

By refusing to associate ISIS with Islam, one is helping to de-mystify them to their religious followers. By hammering home their political nature, their followers will eventually realize that ISIS isn't about following Islam at all, it's about political control. This might actually stop many who are truly religious from following them.

By associating them with Islam, even as "radical" or "extremist", it confirms to their religious followers that they are doing the "right thing". Is this what we really want? Is this really the wise thing to do? I think ISIS loves it when we do this. I think it helps them immensely.

I say it's better to disassociate them from Islam altogether. It's better to only associate them with greed, power and political control.


Okay..you go right on believing that. I will pass.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:47 PM
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Yeah, I'm done here too.

Just going in circles now.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: RickinVa

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: RickinVa

By refusing to associate ISIS with Islam, one is helping to de-mystify them to their religious followers. By hammering home their political nature, their followers will eventually realize that ISIS isn't about following Islam at all, it's about political control. This might actually stop many who are truly religious from following them.

By associating them with Islam, even as "radical" or "extremist", it confirms to their religious followers that they are doing the "right thing". Is this what we really want? Is this really the wise thing to do? I think ISIS loves it when we do this. I think it helps them immensely.

I say it's better to disassociate them from Islam altogether. It's better to only associate them with greed, power and political control.


Okay..you go right on believing that. I will pass.


Aaaaaannnnddd, this is why we will continue to see more people going to the dark side of ISIS. Congrats.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Arizonaguy

The Somalian kid was subjected to a rigorous vetting process. His whole family was. It was a two year process from what I heard. What about people who become a threat AFTER they come here? There are limits to every process. The CIA does extreme vetting that takes place continuously over decades and yet, it hasn't stopped the occassional flip has it?

No amount of vetting will ever predict the future.

What about American Muslims?


This is you:

People lock the doors to their house yet still people break into peoples houses and murder them in their sleep, Locks are not perfect, locks do not stop criminals 100% of the time, locks are useless. Lets not put a lock on the door anymore because locks oppose liberty and freedom.

Feel free to leave your house unlocked 24/7 from now on.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: RickinVa

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: RickinVa

By refusing to associate ISIS with Islam, one is helping to de-mystify them to their religious followers. By hammering home their political nature, their followers will eventually realize that ISIS isn't about following Islam at all, it's about political control. This might actually stop many who are truly religious from following them.

By associating them with Islam, even as "radical" or "extremist", it confirms to their religious followers that they are doing the "right thing". Is this what we really want? Is this really the wise thing to do? I think ISIS loves it when we do this. I think it helps them immensely.

I say it's better to disassociate them from Islam altogether. It's better to only associate them with greed, power and political control.


Okay..you go right on believing that. I will pass.


Aaaaaannnnddd, this is why we will continue to see more people going to the dark side of ISIS. Congrats.


Right.. because if no one ever calls them Islamic Extremists.. they will all give up go home.

whatever.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:57 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Arizonaguy

What about American Muslims?


What about them? If they pop out on the radar as radicals then they should be kept a eye on just like the rest. If it were up to me the punishment for murdering americans in the name of islam would include a 1 way ticket to a isis run country. That way when they want to get in again they need to either do that legally and get vetted and denied or illegally making it a whole damn lot harder for them to do anything.

That is if they even survive their new "homeland".



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