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Trump suggests jail, loss of citizenship for burning U.S. flag

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posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:16 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Vasa Croe



Wait...so you're defending their emotional ties and actions but saying those who want respect for our flag are wrong for using emotional grounds for an argument?


I make no claims about their emotional status. I am defending free speech. I also never said it was wrong to respect the flag. What I did say is that those that would want to jail/fine/deport others for burning the flag in protest have an unhealthy emotional attachment to a symbol, rooted in ultra-nationalism.


I would say those that burn the flag, the very symbol of the country they chose/choose to live in have a very unhealthy emotional DETACHMENT and truly have no idea what they stand for. Very ultra-socialist.

You also don't have to make claims about their emotional status. It is pretty evident.




posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:18 AM
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Jail and loss of citizenship, loss of whatever for burning or defacing a symbol of a thing?.

...Ok...And there are those who have issues with Muslims cutting off people's heads and tearing stuff up over insulting the Prophet Muhammad, or burning the Q'ran or whatever symbol the babies wanna be sensitive about on this or that day...

Grow the # up and realize your current president is a #ing idiot who wants to respond to trivialities the same way as those he claims to be against...

I don't usually call people idiots, but this # is just getting #ing ridiculous.

Don't be one.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe



I would say those that burn the flag, the very symbol of the country they chose/choose to live in have a very unhealthy emotional DETACHMENT and truly have no idea what they stand for. Very ultra-socialist


What does socialism have to do with this topic? We are not talking about the economy.



You also don't have to make claims about their emotional status. It is pretty evident.


As is yours.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:23 AM
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originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
Jail and loss of citizenship, loss of whatever for burning or defacing a symbol of a thing?.

...Ok...And there are those who have issues with Muslims cutting off people's heads and tearing stuff up over insulting the Prophet Muhammad, or burning the Q'ran or whatever symbol the babies wanna be sensitive about on this or that day...

Grow the # up and realize your current president is a #ing idiot who wants to respond to trivialities the same way as those he claims to be against...

I don't usually call people idiots, but this # is just getting #ing ridiculous.

Don't be one.


Some here don't look at the US flag like a company logo...call me crazy but I find the fact that a LOT of people died to keep that flag from falling is something important to remember.

And our current POTUS is Obama...and yes he is everything you just described and then some.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

I guess you have to bleed for it to realize it doesn't mean all that much compared to real things.

I defended something once, and am now disabled from my service to my "country".

It wasn't what I was led to believe it was.

My body and my life are real and cannot be replaced, a goddamned piece of cloth can be replaced.

The flag doesn't make me feel any better no matter what part of my body I wrap it around.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:33 AM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
Jail and loss of citizenship, loss of whatever for burning or defacing a symbol of a thing?.

...Ok...And there are those who have issues with Muslims cutting off people's heads and tearing stuff up over insulting the Prophet Muhammad, or burning the Q'ran or whatever symbol the babies wanna be sensitive about on this or that day...

Grow the # up and realize your current president is a #ing idiot who wants to respond to trivialities the same way as those he claims to be against...

I don't usually call people idiots, but this # is just getting #ing ridiculous.

Don't be one.


Some here don't look at the US flag like a company logo...call me crazy but I find the fact that a LOT of people died to keep that flag from falling is something important to remember.

And our current POTUS is Obama...and yes he is everything you just described and then some.


Back in the 1920-1940's you would have been arrested for desecrating the flag. Times indeed have changed hahah and not always for the better.

You probably would have been labeled a Nazi sympathyzer in those times.
edit on 29-11-2016 by 4N0M4LY because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:39 AM
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originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: introvert


I think the ultra-nationalist types that get pissed when someone burns a flag should be more outraged at the amount of American flags that are made in China.


I'm outraged by that as well.

But not as outraged as I get when I see someone who hasn't committed one day of their life to serving this country burn the flag of the country that my grandfather fought for in the second world war.

Hypothetically, what would you do if you saw me, a veteran, burn a flag?



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:40 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Vasa Croe



I would say those that burn the flag, the very symbol of the country they chose/choose to live in have a very unhealthy emotional DETACHMENT and truly have no idea what they stand for. Very ultra-socialist


What does socialism have to do with this topic? We are not talking about the economy.



You also don't have to make claims about their emotional status. It is pretty evident.


As is yours.


Socialism isn't just about the economy. And yes very ultra-socialist of you.

I have no problem showing my emotion for a country I care about and the symbol that has stood as its beacon through all the tough times.

Do you think precious immigrants didn't look at the US flag as a symbol of freedom? I would even venture to say that the US flag has been the most recognized symbol of freedom in history. But yeah, let's burn the very thing that gave us hope for decades with the current version and centuries for it in general. Let's disgrace the very symbol that this country was built on because of tyrannical reign from a foreign country.

We are all technically immigrants unless you're native American but I don't want to get into a history discussion that far back right now.

Fact is, the ultra-socialists in the US are completely "over-sensitizing" everyone, to the point of "disensitizing" them in the process. It will end when nobody has a feeling of belonging to anything except those in their immediate vicinity/neighborhood or only those they completely agree with on every issue.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:41 AM
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is a flag still a flag if it has only ten stripes and 40 stars?? this could open up a whole new industry in this country, the production and sales of the official false flag burning kit...
same effect really, since most people's minds would probably see them as our flags, but still, legal to burn, since they are not even close to the real thing...



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:41 AM
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originally posted by: brutus61

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Profusion

While I think the flag should be respected and there are better ways to protest, I also believe one has the right to burn a flag if they choose.

In the end, it is nothing more than a symbol. Burning it does not hurt anyone and there is no victim.

I think the ultra-nationalist types that get pissed when someone burns a flag should be more outraged at the amount of American flags that are made in China.


There are many victims. Once disrespect is accepted and becomes the"norm" then any who believe in and have fought for what the flag represents are victims.

This is a stretch. The KKK has their rallies protected by free speech too. They aren't exactly known for being a "respecting organization".



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:44 AM
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I don't know...

But I'll tell you what, when I see the American flag burning, I get real heated, like blood boiling heated. It instantly grabs my attention and I feel like I should do something, have to do something. I couldn't just stand around.

I am sorry, I don't consider burning our nations flag as free speech, rather a declaration of war agaisnt our very institutions.

Take that as you will.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:46 AM
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originally posted by: 4N0M4LY

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
Jail and loss of citizenship, loss of whatever for burning or defacing a symbol of a thing?.

...Ok...And there are those who have issues with Muslims cutting off people's heads and tearing stuff up over insulting the Prophet Muhammad, or burning the Q'ran or whatever symbol the babies wanna be sensitive about on this or that day...

Grow the # up and realize your current president is a #ing idiot who wants to respond to trivialities the same way as those he claims to be against...

I don't usually call people idiots, but this # is just getting #ing ridiculous.

Don't be one.


Some here don't look at the US flag like a company logo...call me crazy but I find the fact that a LOT of people died to keep that flag from falling is something important to remember.

And our current POTUS is Obama...and yes he is everything you just described and then some.


Back in the 1920-1940's you would have been arrested for desecrating the flag. Times indeed have changed hahah and not always for the better.

You probably would have been labeled a Nazi sympathyzer in those times.


This was also a time quite a few people didn't have much freedom or liberty.

I don't think there is any public benefit for this statement from trump.

If riots happen because of flag burners instigating them then there are already laws in place.

Generally fighting words type of legal arguments require specific direction of harm.

I don't think generally the act of burning a flag should be outlawed for any reason or else the people fighting for it are also being censored. It's rediculous to anyssume every soldier thinks flag burning should be banned. It's also rediculous to focus on this when our politicians have been screwing us or putting soldiers in harms way without clear intent or mandates.

Personally I think we should focus on honoring our troops by giving them proper body armour and only using them with clear intentions. Not as policemen waiting for the next roadside bomb.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

Flag burning was upheld as legally protected speech by SCOTUS. Even Scalia voted in favor of it.

Heck he made the whole anti-flag burning argument look legally ridiculous. Source

In 1984, Texas imprisoned Gregory Lee Johnson for burning an American flag in protest of the Reagan administration. Johnson appealed his case to the Supreme Court in 1989, challenging Texas’ statute outlawing flag-burning. (A ruling for Johnson would, by extension, strike down flag-protection laws in 47 other states.) According to Johnson, burning an American flag qualified as “expressive conduct” protected by the First Amendment. At oral argument, Dallas County Assistant District Attorney Kathi Alyce Drew defended Texas’ law by insisting that the American flag is “this nation’s cherished property,” and must be protected from individual desecrators. Scalia seemed baffled; “I never thought that the flag I owned is your flag,” he told Drew.

To illustrate the arbitrary nature of Texas’ flag-protection law, Scalia then attempted to divine what other “cherished” symbols the state might protect from desecration. “I was going to ask about the state flower,” Scalia scoffs—and the courtroom erupts into laugher.

From there, Drew’s arguments only grew more ridiculous. Drew argued that her state’s law was constitutional because it didn’t qualify as “viewpoint discrimination”—in other words, it didn’t censor expression based on its message. This notion, Scalia noted, was somewhat comical: The only reason to burn an American flag is to express discontent with America, so by banning flag-burning, Texas was stifling anti-American expression. In response, Drew tried to argue that one might burn a flag to “honor” the country. Scalia challenged her to describe a single instance in which that might occur. Her reply is almost painfully silly.

Scalia’s finest moment of the day came when Drew claimed that flag burners destroy the flag’s “symbolic effect” by desecrating it. This argument, Scalia noted, is contradictory: Johnson wouldn’t have burned the flag—and Texas wouldn’t have cared about his actions—unless the flag were “a very good symbol.” Texas, Scalia explained, didn’t “just want a symbol”; it wanted “a venerated symbol.” And the First Amendment doesn’t let the government promote its message by censoring its citizens.

In the end, Scalia’s vote was decisive: A bare five-justice majority ruled that the First Amendment protected the right to burn the American flag. An incensed Congress quickly passed a federal statute banning flag burning nationwide—a law which the same five justices struck down the very next term.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:47 AM
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It's a tweet, not a piece of legislation. Now we have lefties defending free speech and righties willing to go against it—only when it suits them—sure evidence of a lack of principles.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe



Socialism isn't just about the economy. And yes very ultra-socialist of you.


Ok. Please explain what this has to do with socialism?



I have no problem showing my emotion for a country I care about and the symbol that has stood as its beacon through all the tough times.


As George Carlin said: "Symbols are for the symbol-minded".



Do you think precious immigrants didn't look at the US flag as a symbol of freedom?


Why does that matter? Symbols are symbols and freedoms are freedoms. You can't take away someone's freedom because they are not as "symbol-minded" as you.



I would even venture to say that the US flag has been the most recognized symbol of freedom in history. But yeah, let's burn the very thing that gave us hope for decades with the current version and centuries for it in general. Let's disgrace the very symbol that this country was built on because of tyrannical reign from a foreign country.


Jailing someone for using their right to speak is not tyranny?



Fact is, the ultra-socialists in the US are completely "over-sensitizing" everyone, to the point of "disensitizing" them in the process. It will end when nobody has a feeling of belonging to anything except those in their immediate vicinity/neighborhood or only those they completely agree with on every issue.


Again, explain how socialism comes in to play here. I think you are talking out of your ass.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:49 AM
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originally posted by: 4N0M4LY

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
Jail and loss of citizenship, loss of whatever for burning or defacing a symbol of a thing?.

...Ok...And there are those who have issues with Muslims cutting off people's heads and tearing stuff up over insulting the Prophet Muhammad, or burning the Q'ran or whatever symbol the babies wanna be sensitive about on this or that day...

Grow the # up and realize your current president is a #ing idiot who wants to respond to trivialities the same way as those he claims to be against...

I don't usually call people idiots, but this # is just getting #ing ridiculous.

Don't be one.


Some here don't look at the US flag like a company logo...call me crazy but I find the fact that a LOT of people died to keep that flag from falling is something important to remember.

And our current POTUS is Obama...and yes he is everything you just described and then some.


Back in the 1920-1940's you would have been arrested for desecrating the flag. Times indeed have changed hahah and not always for the better.

You probably would have been labeled a Nazi sympathyzer in those times.


Well apparently I am already being labelled an ultra-nationalist because I care about what the US flag stands for.

It's all background noise to me really. I just hope these same feelings that the ultra-socialist lefties have now don't ever extend to those that actually defend our country, and by defend I mean die for it, not protest about it. If that happened we can all just wait for the super peaceful takeover by another country who just hasn't gone to sensitivity training yet.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:49 AM
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Hold on I thought the usa was land of the free? it appears many of you only want freedom when it suits you.
So what I have star and stripes bog roll to wipe me bum on...should I get a year in jail.?



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

Just because someone supports the right to publicly burn a flag doesn't mean they automatically want to go out and start burning every flag they see on the streets. Protecting rights means you protect the rights that make you uncomfortable too.
edit on 29-11-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Yep
Trump apparently is no longer entitled to his own opinion.
Wait until he tweets that his kids look like the victims at ohio state, heads will explode.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:54 AM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
Jail and loss of citizenship, loss of whatever for burning or defacing a symbol of a thing?.

...Ok...And there are those who have issues with Muslims cutting off people's heads and tearing stuff up over insulting the Prophet Muhammad, or burning the Q'ran or whatever symbol the babies wanna be sensitive about on this or that day...

Grow the # up and realize your current president is a #ing idiot who wants to respond to trivialities the same way as those he claims to be against...

I don't usually call people idiots, but this # is just getting #ing ridiculous.

Don't be one.


Some here don't look at the US flag like a company logo...call me crazy but I find the fact that a LOT of people died to keep that flag from falling is something important to remember.

And our current POTUS is Obama...and yes he is everything you just described and then some.


Back in the 1920-1940's you would have been arrested for desecrating the flag. Times indeed have changed hahah and not always for the better.

You probably would have been labeled a Nazi sympathyzer in those times.


Well apparently I am already being labelled an ultra-nationalist because I care about what the US flag stands for.

It's all background noise to me really. I just hope these same feelings that the ultra-socialist lefties have now don't ever extend to those that actually defend our country, and by defend I mean die for it, not protest about it. If that happened we can all just wait for the super peaceful takeover by another country who just hasn't gone to sensitivity training yet.

I'm a veteran and I support the right to burn a flag. In fact I could care less what someone does to that piece of cloth. My idea of what America is and represents extends BEYOND a simple cloth. It's a nice stop gap representation but only a shallow person would put that much weight behind a symbol that they'd pursue legal actions against people who ruin it.

You sound like the crazy Muslims who will lynch you if you portray Mohammad in a bad light.




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