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Trump suggests jail, loss of citizenship for burning U.S. flag

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posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:33 AM
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posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe



My emotional attachment to the symbol?


Yes.



So what emotions are flag burners depicting? What emotions are they trying to invoke by doing so?


You would have to ask them. If I had to guess they are trying to invoke the idea that they are pissed about something and are using their right to free speech to do it.



If you want an emotionless act then what are protests for?


I made no such claim.



Emotions are what freedom of speech are all about. But instead of controlling emotions it is OK to act them out. I would say the slippery slope is slipping the opposite way.


The constitution gives you the right to act them out.



Again...respect is earned. I don't respect anyone I just met. Once I get to know who they are and how they have gotten where they are and get to know them, then respect may be earned. Can't say it works like that every time but there is a process for earning respect for everyone in the world. Burning our flag is not one of the steps in that process.


You assume anyone gives a damn about your respect.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:36 AM
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originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY

YOU LIVE IN AMERICA. YOU have also agreed to honor the flag that represents the country you're living in.

.


i did....
when did this happen?
i didnt agree to #. nobody asked me anything so what are you talking about?

im glad i live in the states over some other places...sure
people want to put me in jail or charge me money for burning a symbol? yeah, sure sounds like freedom to me


I don't care what you do in private as far as desecrating anything America is about. That's on you. Do it in public, you either might get a beat down and maybe arrested for starting a fight.... The sky is the limit bro.

You are a US citizen then it was obvious you should stand and honor the flag whenever a procession begins with it. It never was illegal not too, you would just look like a jackoff being disrespectful.

The agreeing to honor the American tradition was implied. You would know this. Hey you are also free to being ignorant too and just plain rude.

Everything you do in public comes with a consequences, good or bad. You are responsible for your actions.


edit on 29-11-2016 by 4N0M4LY because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:38 AM
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a reply to: 4N0M4LY



Why would you knowingly invite the people who hate America want to destroy/change it for the worse? Does that make any sense to you?


I'm not inviting anyone. They come here on their own.



Freedom grants you the right to do as you will as long as it isn't illegal or considered dangerous and causing riots. Freedom doesn't grant you the right of acting like a crazy loon in public.


Ok, not sure what your point is.



3. No it's just called instigating a fight and there are plenty of laws that make it a crime to instigate fight/rioting. Try again.


How is burning a flag instigating a fight? They have the right to burn the flag. It is not their fault others cannot control their emotions.



4. The only piece of fabric that should be considered sacred is the American flag. Nothing else. With your logic, you can say the constitution can/should be burned too because it's just a piece of paper with ink on it.


Sure. Burn it. We have many copies.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:40 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Vasa Croe



My emotional attachment to the symbol?


Yes.



So what emotions are flag burners depicting? What emotions are they trying to invoke by doing so?


You would have to ask them. If I had to guess they are trying to invoke the idea that they are pissed about something and are using their right to free speech to do it.



If you want an emotionless act then what are protests for?


I made no such claim.



Emotions are what freedom of speech are all about. But instead of controlling emotions it is OK to act them out. I would say the slippery slope is slipping the opposite way.


The constitution gives you the right to act them out.



Again...respect is earned. I don't respect anyone I just met. Once I get to know who they are and how they have gotten where they are and get to know them, then respect may be earned. Can't say it works like that every time but there is a process for earning respect for everyone in the world. Burning our flag is not one of the steps in that process.


You assume anyone gives a damn about your respect.


Wait...so you're defending their emotional ties and actions but saying those who want respect for our flag are wrong for using emotional grounds for an argument?

And no, I don't assume much at all...ever. I base my opinions and thoughts on what I learn from others when I meet them.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:40 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

Think about it - What type of organization in general allows this?

If you publicly did anything to deny your own brand of a company you work for, you'd be fired.

If you publicly did something terrible to a statue of a prophet of a religion, they would no longer allow you.

Now, America is neither a business, nor a religion, but it is a form of an organization that has deeply rooted beliefs and morals set forth by the fore-fathers. To actively deny those fore-fathers, and those who gave their lives to protect our freedom which is represented by the flag, should certainly be a crime. You don't burn something just for fun typically, it has meaning - Just as burning a bible likely means you have beef with some religion, burning a flag is all that more symbolic. These are the type of people I'd truly watch out for if crap ever hit the fan, I'd be worried for the safety of others that encounter people that are anti-american.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: RickinVa



Okie dokie pokie... how many flags do you burn everyday? Have you ever burnt a flag in protest?


No, I have not. I think it's stupid. Kind of like your statement that people have the right to assault those that do.



No? Then you are just flapping your ATS gums and it means nothing.... just like burning that flag.


Isn't freedom of speech great? Sorry if you do not like it.



It's just stupid all right. The problem is where the stupidity lies.


Indeed. It seems that there is plenty stupidity to go around.

One side wants to burn flags, the other wants to burn the one that burns the flag.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: introvert

answer a very simple question:

Have you ever burned the US flag as a method of protesting?

I have not and never would.

Have you?



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:44 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: 4N0M4LY



Why would you knowingly invite the people who hate America want to destroy/change it for the worse? Does that make any sense to you?


I'm not inviting anyone. They come here on their own.



Freedom grants you the right to do as you will as long as it isn't illegal or considered dangerous and causing riots. Freedom doesn't grant you the right of acting like a crazy loon in public.


Ok, not sure what your point is.



3. No it's just called instigating a fight and there are plenty of laws that make it a crime to instigate fight/rioting. Try again.


How is burning a flag instigating a fight? They have the right to burn the flag. It is not their fault others cannot control their emotions.



4. The only piece of fabric that should be considered sacred is the American flag. Nothing else. With your logic, you can say the constitution can/should be burned too because it's just a piece of paper with ink on it.


Sure. Burn it. We have many copies.



1. Of course they come here on their own, they will be shipping themselves back for being stupid too.

2. You don't get it, that's your issue.

3. Because you were simply making an protest/ obscene act that will knowingly cause a problem. That's like me and 20 other people holding a sign "Death to America" and expecting nothing to happen to me because I was just expressing my views and everyone elses fault for getting emotional about it. That's not how the real world works. Everyone would be at fault including YOU.

4. You can do that too, just look ignorant doing it.
edit on 29-11-2016 by 4N0M4LY because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe



Wait...so you're defending their emotional ties and actions but saying those who want respect for our flag are wrong for using emotional grounds for an argument?


I make no claims about their emotional status. I am defending free speech. I also never said it was wrong to respect the flag. What I did say is that those that would want to jail/fine/deport others for burning the flag in protest have an unhealthy emotional attachment to a symbol, rooted in ultra-nationalism.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: RickinVa
a reply to: introvert

answer a very simple question:

Have you ever burned the US flag as a method of protesting?

I have not and never would.

Have you?



I already answered that question. Go back and read, Ricky.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:49 AM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: RickinVa
a reply to: introvert

answer a very simple question:

Have you ever burned the US flag as a method of protesting?

I have not and never would.

Have you?



I already answered that question. Go back and read, Ricky.


No need to... I am done with this thread.

You guys have fun... I got better things to do...I have some volunteer work to do this morning. I would rather direct my energies into a more positive direction.

PS: For the 1000th time... my name is not Rick, or Ricky or any variation thereof.. it is just an ATS name.


edit on R502016-11-29T08:50:42-06:00k5011Vam by RickinVa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:51 AM
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a reply to: 4N0M4LY



1. Of course they come here on their own, they will be shipping themselves back for being stupid too.


That makes no sense.



2. You don't get it, that's your issue.


You did not make a clear point. People act like loons all the time in public. There is no law against it.



3. Because you were simply making an protest/ obscene act that will knowingly cause a problem. That's like me and 20 other people holding a sign "Death to America" and expecting nothing to happen to me because I was just expressing my views and everyone elses fault for getting emotional about it. That's not how the real world works. Everyone would be at fault including YOU.


Only the person that committed a crime or violated a right would not be at fault. You have the right to hold any sign you wish. It seems you are trying to equate freedom of speech with incitement.

How odd.



4. You can do that too, just look ignorant doing it.


Who cares how you "look"? Freedom is freedom. "Looks" are for the shallow.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:51 AM
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When my cousin ended her exchange year in the US, she bought an American flag so everybody can sign it and take it home with her. The family (and friends) she stayed with was pretty shocked when they heard her idea but they did it anyway because she obviously did not know about the relationship between American citizens and their flag and of course they wanted to give her something to remember them by.


It seems a lot of things can change in 10 years.


Edit: I always loved how Americans honor their flag, it's a really beautiful thing.

edit on 29-11-2016 by Danowski because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:52 AM
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a reply to: RickinVa

So did anyone see that Hillary sponsored the Flag Protection Act of 2005 - that wait for it - called for 1 year in jail and $100,000 fine.

My bet is Trump knew this before ever bringing it up. He probably does support this idea, but I bet his real point is to again make clear to the average citizen the media's bias in attacking him mercilessly, yet never discussing Hillary's problems.

If he successfully points this out enough times, even the mind controlled public will begin to realize the mainstream media is garbage.
edit on 29-11-2016 by proximo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:52 AM
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So, I thought you were supposed to burn the American flag if it touched the ground or got dirty or torn, not throw it into the trash.

So all a person has to say is that they were having a ceremony to burn a dirty flag.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:55 AM
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originally posted by: RickinVa

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: RickinVa
a reply to: introvert

answer a very simple question:

Have you ever burned the US flag as a method of protesting?

I have not and never would.

Have you?



I already answered that question. Go back and read, Ricky.


No need to... I am done with this thread.

You guys have fun... I got better things to do...I have some volunteer work to do this morning. I would rather direct my energies into a more positive direction.

PS: For the 1000th time... my name is not Rick, or Ricky or any variation thereof.. it is just an ATS name.



Hi Rick, why are you using my name?



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:04 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: 4N0M4LY



1. Of course they come here on their own, they will be shipping themselves back for being stupid too.


That makes no sense.



2. You don't get it, that's your issue.


You did not make a clear point. People act like loons all the time in public. There is no law against it.



3. Because you were simply making an protest/ obscene act that will knowingly cause a problem. That's like me and 20 other people holding a sign "Death to America" and expecting nothing to happen to me because I was just expressing my views and everyone elses fault for getting emotional about it. That's not how the real world works. Everyone would be at fault including YOU.


Only the person that committed a crime or violated a right would not be at fault. You have the right to hold any sign you wish. It seems you are trying to equate freedom of speech with incitement.

How odd.



4. You can do that too, just look ignorant doing it.


Who cares how you "look"? Freedom is freedom. "Looks" are for the shallow.


1. Guess you never will. They don't like the country they are a citizen of, those immigrants are in for a rude awakening.

2. You can act crazy all the time. It also despends on how you are acting if it will warrant the attention of law enforcement. There is a law around certain kinds of crazy that possibly can endanger the public.

3. Incitement is a crime. Freedom of speech doesn't grant you the right to say whatever comes ouf of your mouth without some sort of reaction or consequence. There are laws that go both ways. You can argue that point for all eternity. It will never change.

4. Looks are for the insecure and everyone has a freedom to look wherever they want, its a thing you will have to deal with. Regardless if you find it immature or not.
edit on 29-11-2016 by 4N0M4LY because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:11 AM
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Freedom of speech? I think they should be prepared to articulate what exactly they are saying and why it's not treason.

No matter how bad the government gets, the flag represents the people, not just the few in charge.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:11 AM
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im sure thoughtful people will realize putting this sentiment into law will only provide a PERFECT point for all the most extreme elements to rally around and look justified in doing it no matter how nutty they are.


this is just stupid, plain and simple. Trump needs someone to take all of his electronics away....the dude has no common sense at all when it comes to tweeting and it just makes him look out of touch and dumb.


i preferred Trump over Clinton, but nonsense like this will guarantee a huge backlash among his own supporters and i will gladly count myself among them if he pursues garbage ideas like this one.




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