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Trump suggests jail, loss of citizenship for burning U.S. flag

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posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 07:24 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

It's in North Korea, yes.

Also illegal in Italy(even foreign), Mexico, Brazil, New Zealand, Argentina, Austria, Germany, China, Croatia, Denmark (illegal to touch soil/burn in public), Faroe Islands, France, Finland, Israel, Italy (even Foreign), Japan, Sweden, Switzerland, Peru...

Not only see it as bad, criminal, immoral, and wrong... but implies same laws for other flags. That's Respect.

Its not illegal in Australia (can't turn upside down), Denmark (lifted), unsure in Scotland/UK , Canada, and America. But...Here's Americas story..

In 1862, during the Union army's occupation of New Orleans in the American Civil War, the military governor, Benjamin Franklin Butler, sentenced William B. Mumford to death for removing a United States Flag.[citation needed]

In 1864 John Greenleaf Whittier wrote the poem Barbara Frietchie, which told of a (probably fictional) incident in which Confederate soldiers were deterred from defacing an American flag. The poem contains the famous lines:

"Shoot, if you must, this old gray head,
But spare your country's flag," she said.

During the United States involvement in the Vietnam War American flags were sometimes burned during war protest demonstrations.[93]

After the Johnson decision, the Flag Protection Act was passed protecting flags from anyone who "mutilates, defaces, physically defiles, burns, maintains on the floor or ground, or tramples upon any flag".[94] This decision was later struck down in the Eichman decision. After that case, several flag burning amendments to the Constitution were proposed. On 22 June 2005, a Flag Desecration Amendment was passed by the House with the needed two-thirds majority. On 27 June 2006, another attempt to pass a ban on flag burning was rejected by the Senate in a close vote of 66 in favor, 34 opposed, one vote short of the two-thirds majority needed to send the amendment to be voted on by the states.[95]




posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 07:32 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's barely protected buddy and probably won't be for long. Literally only thing kept it from starting in 06 was one vote.

It's not the same. But it is in fact that it's morally wrong.

No one said #s and giggles. They're not burning flags for #s and giggles.

You can be starving, can't kill Eagle to eat but can burn American flag to stay warm.

Before we start... Eagle on Endangered list is "least concerned".



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 07:32 AM
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It is illegal to burn it, always has been.


Wrong from sentence one.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 07:39 AM
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originally posted by: Shr00mz
It's barely protected buddy and probably won't be for long.


It is completely protected. And I am not your buddy, pal.


Literally only thing kept it from starting in 06 was one vote.


So? It was still found to be in-Constitutional by the Supreme Court which can strike down laws even if passed by Congress post facto.


It's not the same. But it is in fact that it's morally wrong.


Who gets to decide what is moral? You?


No one said #s and giggles. They're not burning flags for #s and giggles.


They do not need a reason, just like any form of free speech.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 07:53 AM
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a reply to: roadgravel

Doesn't make rest of it wrong. Doesn't make my view wrong neither. I did mean to put morally illegal and has been as in way society sees it. Since I did mess that up I accept that defeat.

Also, if it was a WORLD vote. Yes, it's illegal. Most countries not only see it ILLEGAL to burn flag, but cant flags others as well in same countries.

If it was a true DEMOCRATIC vote as in MOST VOTED YES IT IS ILLEGAL 2006 would have won
66 favored its illegal
34 favored its legal

It's wrong guys. WRONG.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:02 AM
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a reply to: Shr00mz

It has nothing to do with the rest of the world.

The symbol of the flag should not be more powerful than the philosphy it represents.

Private property rights (my flag) and freedom of speech should trump an idol or symbol.

Our forefathers loved Voltaire who said "I don't agree with you, but I will defend your right to express your opinion to the death"

Voting can not trump the constitution alone. You can't just vote to segregate Italians because a majority believes they eat too much pasta.

It is extremely dangerous to treat a symbol of a philosphy with greater care than the philosphy itself.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I decide what's moral to me, majority will also say it's wrong. Hence why most of world sees it as wrong. Why supreme court said it was morally wrong. Why NO ONE likes it but disrespectful careless person.

Supreme Court changed from 90 to 06, who knew?

Not replying to last comment, It's trivial. I can say samething. I don't need a reason, just like any form of survival. It's dumb argument.

Supreme Court didn't recognize Patriot Act either but guess what?

It comes down to is it right or is it? Answer is no.

Sorry to offened people but wish your love for flag burning was in other things..like federal reserve.. and constant trample of constitution since day one. I mean who hasn't violated everyone of them in last 20 years?



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:08 AM
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a reply to: Shr00mz

Most of the world?

Your argument has no logical foundation and is based on complete speculation.

Hey technically most of the world is still holding woman back does that mean it's morally ok?
edit on 2-12-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:15 AM
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originally posted by: Shr00mz
I decide what's moral to me, majority will also say it's wrong. Hence why most of world sees it as wrong. Why supreme court said it was morally wrong.


The Supreme Court ruled it was legal, your morals are not a factor.


Supreme Court changed from 90 to 06, who knew?


Scalia was still there and he ruled that it was legal.


Sorry to offened people but wish your love for flag burning was in other things..like federal reserve.. and constant trample of constitution since day one. I mean who hasn't violated everyone of them in last 20 years?


You really should not assume, new guy. Also, I am capable of debating several topics/positions at one time without being overwhelmed.





edit on 2-12-2016 by AugustusMasonicus because: Zazz 2020!



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's very simple

Is the symbol or its meaning more important?



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:20 AM
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a reply to: luthier

It does tho. If 90% of countries view it illegal. Look up flag burning on Wikia. It's unanimously despised. So despised countries like Italy.. UN.. won't let you burn IRAQ flag.

Most of world is holding women back? That's why half Mexico has women politicians? South America has tons of them. Look England that has one largest empires in world. Germany... just because Hillary didn't win here doesn't mean you're being held back. Maybe in countries where no one has rights... ones who burn flags and shout hate... much like people here are doing.

It's not speciation, it's wikia. Google it. Most world hates it. Not just their flag, but others.

UN tried press for international hearing over kid who stomped flag in their presence. Luckily it was US flag because he could have been convicted in international crime. SINCE it was American and not U.N. it was dismissed.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:21 AM
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a reply to: Shr00mz

Like I said most of the world also holds woman back and would vote to do so.

Most of the world is in Asia bud.

That doesn't matter at all.

There is no logic in this speculation.



edit on 2-12-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:24 AM
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originally posted by: luthier
It's very simple

Is the symbol or its meaning more important?


Some people cannot think logically an instead allow emotion to dictate their decisions.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: luthier

www.jjmccullough.com...

22 females rulers as of 2015.

Catherine II of Russia...Wu Zetian of China... Thatcher of England (ruled almost entire world...remember her?) Cleopatra...



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:29 AM
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a reply to: Shr00mz

As far as opinion, your opinion is no greater than other person's.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:32 AM
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a reply to: roadgravel

Did I say it was?



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:34 AM
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originally posted by: Shr00mz
a reply to: luthier

www.jjmccullough.com...

22 females rulers as of 2015.

Catherine II of Russia...Wu Zetian of China... Thatcher of England (ruled almost entire world...remember her?) Cleopatra...





Apparently you haven't traveled much.

So indonesia who had a female pm has less subjugation of woman than THE US who hasn't elected a woman?

Again your not logical here.

The flag represents the constitution, preamble, federalist papers and all the philosphy you need to catch up on.

When the flag becomes more important than the philosphy it represents your no longer preserving the integrity of the country. Which is exactly what thee supreme court ruled.

By the way old supreme court cases are nearly imppssible to overturn because of legal precedence.

I urge you to read up on the US political structure and history.

And thank you for proving my point 22 out about 200 countries. Do the math.
edit on 2-12-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: luthier

Yes, I can see under facts that they did it. When asked Supreme Court Judge said he had to stick to constitution, but it's immoral to degrade and burn our flag. I respect that, but guys, it gets changed.

Freedom of Religion was changed to keep people from harming others or animals.

Just like can practice Satanism, can't kill animal as ritual to its diety. There will always be "exception" to the rule.

Yes, it's an extreme statement but it's an example of it. You can practice free speech without burning the flag.

When does it shift from freedom of speech to becoming a hate crime? Most of time lately I see flag being burned, violence persuded after. It's not freedom of speech, it's hate. It hurts people. It hurts me and I know I'm not the only one.

Technically it violates the law.. emotional distress. I couldn't sleep a wink today because it hurts to know it's okay to trample flag I hold dear. I find it OFFENSIVE to me. Is racial slur a hate crime? Is burning my flag a hate crime? How can it not be. You think troops over seas are watching the TV cheering you on? If this was war...would that singley put down every man and women fighting for it? To literally 'preserve the fabric so triumphantly woven'

There is a consequence for every action. This actions consequences outweighs if it wasnt banned. No sadness to not burn flag.. yet you sadden those around you when you do.

I also find it crazy that my opinion differs from everyone here on forum, yet get told "your opinion isn't better" it's only real opposing force. So please stop trying shut me up and be hypocritical. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying it's wrong. That's what I believe. I'm other half and still not given why use act of terrorism to persuade a person to believe your side is right by burning flags and picking fights or prove you're right. plain and simple terrorist burn flags, Israel is only one who doesn't in middle east. It's offensive and distasteful.

Years fear of terrorism and antics not bothered me emotionally and physically but others. You're condoning that to spread hate. I see no difference than burning flag, or burning a cross. Both symbols. Items of culture. It offends blacks and we prevent that. Both is represented as freedom of speech and freedom of hate. Freedom to hurt. To manipulate. Just like burning crosses, I say it's wrong and hurtful. I feel slapped in face, honestly. I feel provoked to DEFEND that flag.

What happens when burn that flag and patriot snaps on you? Post traumatic stress kicks in from countless watching people burn flag and call you infidel. what if it triggers him to DEFEND that flag?



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 09:16 AM
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originally posted by: Shr00mz
a
Freedom of Religion was changed to keep people from harming others or animals.


Just like can practice Satanism, can't kill animal as ritual to its diety.


The Supreme Court ruled in 1993 that animal sacrifice was protected under the First Amendment. You may want to double check your facts before posting.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 09:18 AM
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Listen people, you can't expect a great man/philanthropist/moralist/saint such as Trump to be able to actually make America great again if people are disagreeing with him or giving him a hard time. If we really all want America to be great again, we need to round up and summarily execute anyone who burns the flag/believes in global warming/believes in a woman's right to choose/believes in a democracy and not an Oligarchy/or really anyone who gets on Trump's naughty list. Remember, real change doesn't happen without some blood being spilled, and for the good of the nation, whats a couple million deaths for the real prospect of re-invigorating the heavily burdened ultra-wealth with a viable path to further enrich themselves at the expense of us and our natural resources? We need to put our foot down and do whats right. Trump for Emperor, free speech is for pussies and those that disagree with him don't deserve to enrich such a magnificent demi-god.



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