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Trump suggests jail, loss of citizenship for burning U.S. flag

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posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: Miracula2

originally posted by: Profusion
I don't see how it's not speech protected by the First Amendment..


Burning a physical object is not speaking.



It's speech. Like sign language. You don't have to use your mouth to speak. People speak with their hand gestures, facial gestures, body gestures, and use all sorts of props and symbols to convey messages.




posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 08:58 PM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
You know, you can protest without burning a flag. Be a man/woman and light yourself on fire...now THAT is a protest!


Some guy did that....in Tunisia. And we know what followed...The Arab Spring.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 09:07 PM
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a reply to: TexasSeabee

Burning the American flag is an act of desecration of what America stands for, namely freedom and liberty. Its so simple. When we say the pledge of allegiance or hold our hand over our hearts in the national anthem it is for what the country stands for, and I mean what our Founding Fathers fought for....freedom, not what the Elites have turned it into.
Why do you think that illegals and foreign nationals burn the American flag while hoisting up various other flags of other nations? It is a disrespect for our country. Those people need to go back to wherever they came from.


edit on 30-11-2016 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 09:11 PM
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a reply to: TexasSeabee

1) Ok...there is no such thing as innocent until proven guilty. One right gone...

2) Yes our founding fathers did that. Then they declared independence from that King and became citizens of a separate independent nation. They didn't stick around for the free stuff. Missed on that one too...

3) Its not a distraction, its a fact. You aren't free to say whatever you want whenever you want wherever you want without consequences. Face it, free speech is limited when it is favorable for TPTB. And if that upsets you, you can say a prayer, as long as you don't do it on government property or property wholly or partially funded by tax dollars. Oops, missed again...

4) Currency is not the same as a flag. Agreed. I give you credit for that one. However, if the only thing stopping each individual flag from being burned is the legal right of ownership I fear we have gone too far in a very wrong direction.

I believe in freedom of speech. It is necessary. But I differentiate between speech and action. Our constitution states the protection of freedom of speech quite clearly. It does not delineate action as an extension of speech. In other words, you can say what you will to a point, but your actions are a different story.

Bringing up the airport aspect again, what if you burned a flag on an airplane during a flight?



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 09:15 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Who needs laws when you can just shut everybody down by calling them racist kkk homophobic woman haters.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: Profusion

In my opinion I agree with respecting our flag at all cost, the flag of this nation is a symbol of unity within our borders, 50 stays in one nation anybody that burns it is just declaring that they have not desirer to honor the unity that our nation represents.

It should be a crime to burn the flag.



"Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Do I really need to say anything more than those two quotes?
edit on 30-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: typos



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 09:20 PM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Who needs laws when you can just shut everybody down by calling them racist kkk homophobic woman haters.



People who are racist kkk homophobic woman haters are impossible to shut down.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 09:31 PM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: TexasSeabee

Burning the American flag is an act of desecration of what America stands for, namely freedom and liberty. Its so simple. When we say the pledge of allegiance or hold our hand over our hearts in the national anthem it is for what the country stands for, and I mean what our Founding Fathers fought for....freedom, not what the Elites have turned it into.
Why do you think that illegals and foreign nationals burn the American flag while hoisting up various other flags of other nations? It is a disrespect for our country. Those people need to go back to wherever they came from.



A symbol is not the meaning it represents. Allowing people to burn the flag is the ultimate expression of what the flag represents. I would never do it. But I would defend a person's first amendment rights.


(post by Burnt1afterlife removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 10:16 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: TexasSeabee

Burning the American flag is an act of desecration of what America stands for, namely freedom and liberty. Its so simple. When we say the pledge of allegiance or hold our hand over our hearts in the national anthem it is for what the country stands for, and I mean what our Founding Fathers fought for....freedom, not what the Elites have turned it into.
Why do you think that illegals and foreign nationals burn the American flag while hoisting up various other flags of other nations? It is a disrespect for our country. Those people need to go back to wherever they came from.



A symbol is not the meaning it represents. Allowing people to burn the flag is the ultimate expression of what the flag represents. I would never do it. But I would defend a person's first amendment rights.


Excellent!!!!!!



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 10:20 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:51 PM
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So, conservatives need safe space from flag burners now? Yes, its in bad taste, but if you own a flag you can do what you want with it. Why is it a constant struggle between the left and right to see who can expand the federal government more?

Both sides need to lay off the bill of rights.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 12:01 AM
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originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: Miracula2

originally posted by: Profusion
I don't see how it's not speech protected by the First Amendment..


Burning a physical object is not speaking.



It's speech. Like sign language. You don't have to use your mouth to speak. People speak with their hand gestures, facial gestures, body gestures, and use all sorts of props and symbols to convey messages.


As is the transmission of bits through a digital system. Which hopefully we get supremes who GET IT. If messages transmitted through digital systems become protected as free speech, then it will basically require reform of IP laws, copyright laws. I believe that the same idea that says right to privacy trumps laws against sexual acts, same happens with laws against copyright violation, rights to privacy should trump ANY restriction that does not exist to protect the abuse of innocents, a private exchange between two consenting adults cannot reasonably be made illegal, it is a violation of their freedom and their rights over their own property*(YOU can arrange your OWN physical property, including the microscopic elements of your OWN computer in any way you want. The idea that you can't arrange your furniture, your magnets, or the microscopic states of your computer in certain configurations is PURE BS.).

Regards Trump he wants to sound patriotic, but this is quaint and out of fashion, freedom of expression trumps censorship. True someone might go pro-wanting to be a slave and sell their freedom, that doesn't mean we should make them a slave.
edit on 1-12-2016 by Xenogears because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-12-2016 by Xenogears because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 12:08 AM
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The real question is, shouldn't Trump lose his citizenship for suggesting that an anti-constitutional proposal like banning flag burning should be implemented? I mean, if you don't believe in the US Constitution, should the US still recognize your claim to citizenship, even if you were born on US soil? Moreover, although Trump was probably born on US soil, and believed Obama was not, isn't it Trump who proves he's ineligible for the office of President, since he'd have to then swear in to uphold the very constitution he's now attacking with his proposal? Strange paradox, this guy called Trump.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 12:28 AM
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originally posted by: Xenogears
If messages transmitted through digital systems become protected as free speech, then it will basically require reform of IP laws, copyright laws. .


Actually, copyright laws are basically dead.

The funny thing is that if I buy a plastic mechanical part from a foreign nation, and import it into the US, the government will slap duties and taxes on the imported item. But, if I buy the "blue print" on-line, and print the plastic part on my 3D printer, there's no duty nor tax involved.

The realities of the modernization through technological innovation is erasing all the paradigms used to control assets in the times past. Today, it is simply impractical to intercept the bits and bytes flying across borders and try to interpret them, categorize them, and assess duties and fees for these largely invisible transactions.


As the world is becoming more digital, the products are shifting naturally into the unencumbered zones: free from inspection, free from duties, free from taxes, free from copyright claims, free from patents, free from all controls that encumber physical forms of these products.

Imagine a time when and where the sex trade is illegal, but people can don a Virtual Reality Helmet and enter a digital world where their brains are fully stimulated by the mechanisms of technology, and they can engage in all their wildest fantasies in private, pay their virtual companion for the pleasure of the role play, and no one would be any the wiser.

All our ideas of the world are changing.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 12:57 AM
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Trump supporters, make up your minds haha. Are you pro pc or anti pc?



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 01:25 AM
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This case should be fkn closed. Dont people get it? Im blown away here...reality is stranger than fiction. Idiocracy the movie...turned real!


And this was brought up 20+ years ago.

edit on 1-12-2016 by Jungian because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 03:10 AM
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a reply to: Indigo5




“Burning the flag is a form of expression,”


indeed...a form oh hateful expression. Last time I heard...you libs dont like hate speech ?

Now dont tell me that whoever burns a flag of the US...LOVES what it stands for ? Obviously he/she hates it.

what's up with that ?



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 05:58 AM
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I haven't read the whole thread yet. Has it been mentioned that Hilary Clinton co-sponsored a bill to make flag burning a crime?



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 06:17 AM
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originally posted by: Saiker
I do not think it should be illegal and I am a Trump supporter. I think it should give police legal precedent to investigate the person for committing other crimes. It clearly gives the suspicion that the offender does not respect or regard the symbol of the nation and its laws.


So you want something that's legal to be probable cause that an illegal act has been committed ?? That is ridiculously unconstitutional.



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