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Trump suggests jail, loss of citizenship for burning U.S. flag

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posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: angeldoll


I just woke up to see a discussion about removing people's citizenship because they burned a flag.
I feel like I'm in Pakistan or Saudi.
God help us.


That's probably because you only cared to read the title and nothing beyond that in this thread.




posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:16 AM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY
a reply to: introvert

Ultra-nationalist? Since when did having pride in your country and being proud of the country you come from become ultr-nationalist? Really?

Scared much?


Having pride in the country or flag is fine.

Wanting to jail/fine/deport those that burn a flag because of how you feel about that symbol is a dangerous slippery slope.


Why should I let a newly granted citizen / legal immigrant burn a flag in the middle of a street right after he/she said they will honor this country? That is hypocritical and tells me they lied to my face.

The same thing with ordinary people who live here and take adavatage of the freedoms we have and yet spit on the country that allows these freedoms by burning/pissing on the Flag that you support. Why shouldn't you be fined for being a moron doing it in Public areas?

Knowing full well it will cause a scene and maybe a outbreak of fighting?

Freedom of speech isn't free without limits. It always has been that way.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:18 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe



Has nothing to do with ultra-nationalism.


It absolutely does. Trump and others in this thread would jail/fine/deport those that would burn a flag. The flag being a symbol of their ultra-nationalist mindset.



It has to do with the respect people SHOULD have for the country they live in.


And you SHOULD respect their right to free speech.



There are plenty of ways to show you're upset under our Constitution. Burning the US flag should not be one of those ways.


That is your opinion based on the emotional attachment you have with the symbol.



People that live here should have respect for what that symbol means and has meant for years. If they don't then why would anyone respect their opinion either?


You don't have to respect their opinion. You have to respect their right to free speech. You can fly the flag if you wish. They should be able to do with it as they choose as well.

That's how freedom works.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: oddnutz
It was a good idea when Hillary co sponsored the same law in the senate, but if Trump suggests it, bad Trump!


The Flag Protection Act of 2005 was a proposed United States federal law introduced by Senators Hillary Clinton and Robert Bennett. The law would have outlawed flag burning, and called for a punishment of one year in jail and a fine of $100,000.[1][2]


en.wikipedia.org...



Likely exactly why Trump tweeted that.

He is very good at stirring the pot with past Hillary actions that she can't dismiss.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:19 AM
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No point in burning the flag.

If you are that upset with the country...there is only one word:

Goodbye.


PS: Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.

I hear North Korea is accepting citizenship applications.
edit on R202016-11-29T08:20:00-06:00k2011Vam by RickinVa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
We do not have values as a nation. He have values as individuals.


No, our nation stands for things, and those would be the values enshrined in and implied by the Constitution. You're arguing semantics, which is pointless.



Separation of church and state.


That was a letter from Jefferson to a church--it's not part of the Constitution, and the Constitution does not forbid religious displays, only a nationalized religion. This goes to the whole hurt feelings thing that you mentioned before.



What rights are encroached upon when a flag is burnt?


None...and I can't understand why people don't get the reality of what a victimless crime is.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:20 AM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: eNumbra
Ah, I see, as long as you perform a magic ritual first, burning a flag is okay.


Well some people consider flag burning disrespectful...I am one of those people.

Best way I could put it is how would you feel if I got a picture of your family and pissed on it and called your mom/wife/daughter a whore in a video i made and it went viral on the


Wouldn't care;I'd think the person was a turd, but they're free to their opinion.


Well that is sad.

You and I are clearly different people when it comes to the emotional response to others actions.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:20 AM
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originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: angeldoll


I just woke up to see a discussion about removing people's citizenship because they burned a flag.
I feel like I'm in Pakistan or Saudi.
God help us.


That's probably because you only cared to read the title and nothing beyond that in this thread.


I read as much as I could take.
Good morning to you too, Sir.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:21 AM
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I just think if you hate America and you hate for what it stands for. Do it on Private property. Or you can move to North Korea/Syria/Iran/ China. No one will care what you do or if they get offended, who cares.

Doing it in public is nothing short of edging people to start a fight and/or cause a riot. It's wrong and should be fined.
edit on 29-11-2016 by 4N0M4LY because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: brutus61



On the contrary, there are victims in the sense that the values we once stood for are being degraded and turned into a circus.


Our politicians are the ones that did that did that.


originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: introvert


I don't think we should curtail free speech.


Burning a flag isn't an act of speech. It's the physical act of destruction of property. There is a difference.


The Supreme Court disagrees with you.


The majority of the Court, according to Justice William Brennan, agreed with Johnson and held that flag burning constitutes a form of "symbolic speech" that is protected by the First Amendment. The majority noted that freedom of speech protects actions that society may find very offensive, but society's outrage alone is not justification for suppressing free speech.

In particular, the majority noted that the Texas law discriminated upon viewpoint, i.e., although the law punished actions, such as flag burning, that might arouse anger in others, it specifically exempted from prosecution actions that were respectful of venerated objects, e.g., burning and burying a worn-out flag. The majority said that the government could not discriminate in this manner based solely upon viewpoint.
www.uscourts.gov...



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

Do you want politicians who do not give their opinion?
Is he not allowed opinion now?



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: 4N0M4LY



Why should I let a newly granted citizen / legal immigrant burn a flag in the middle of a street right after he/she said they will honor this country? That is hypocritical and tells me they lied to my face.


Why would they care what you think?



The same thing with ordinary people who live here and take adavatage of the freedoms we have and yet spit on the country that allows these freedoms by burning/pissing on the Flag that you support. Why shouldn't you be fined for being a moron doing it in Public areas?


Because freedom.



Knowing full well it will cause a scene and maybe a outbreak of fighting?


People should learn to control their ultra-nationalist emotions.



Freedom of speech isn't free without limits. It always has been that way.


True. But now you would ask that someone be jailed/fined/deported for burning a piece of fabric.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:24 AM
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Most veterans, like myself, look at it in a very simple way.



It is your right as an American citizen to burn the flag if you so desire.

As a veteran, they will fight to their death to defend your right to burn our flag.

As a person, they reserve the right to kick your ass for your stupidity.


In other words... it is definitely your right to burn the flag.... but if you decide to do it in front of a bunch of veterans, don't expect a bunch oh hugs.

edit on R282016-11-29T08:28:12-06:00k2811Vam by RickinVa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:26 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey



No, our nation stands for things, and those would be the values enshrined in and implied by the Constitution. You're arguing semantics, which is pointless.


Yes, the constitution. Not the flag.



None


Exactly.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:28 AM
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a reply to: RickinVa



As a person, they reserve the right to kick your ass for your stupidity.


No, they do not have the right to attack another person for what they consider stupidity.

To say so is...well, stupid.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:28 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Vasa Croe



Has nothing to do with ultra-nationalism.


It absolutely does. Trump and others in this thread would jail/fine/deport those that would burn a flag. The flag being a symbol of their ultra-nationalist mindset.



It has to do with the respect people SHOULD have for the country they live in.


And you SHOULD respect their right to free speech.



There are plenty of ways to show you're upset under our Constitution. Burning the US flag should not be one of those ways.


That is your opinion based on the emotional attachment you have with the symbol.



People that live here should have respect for what that symbol means and has meant for years. If they don't then why would anyone respect their opinion either?


You don't have to respect their opinion. You have to respect their right to free speech. You can fly the flag if you wish. They should be able to do with it as they choose as well.

That's how freedom works.


My emotional attachment to the symbol? So what emotions are flag burners depicting? What emotions are they trying to invoke by doing so?

If you want an emotionless act then what are protests for? Why do riots break out? Emotions are what freedom of speech are all about. But instead of controlling emotions it is OK to act them out. I would say the slippery slope is slipping the opposite way.

Again...respect is earned. I don't respect anyone I just met. Once I get to know who they are and how they have gotten where they are and get to know them, then respect may be earned. Can't say it works like that every time but there is a process for earning respect for everyone in the world. Burning our flag is not one of the steps in that process.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:29 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: 4N0M4LY



Why should I let a newly granted citizen / legal immigrant burn a flag in the middle of a street right after he/she said they will honor this country? That is hypocritical and tells me they lied to my face.


Why would they care what you think?



The same thing with ordinary people who live here and take adavatage of the freedoms we have and yet spit on the country that allows these freedoms by burning/pissing on the Flag that you support. Why shouldn't you be fined for being a moron doing it in Public areas?


Because freedom.



Knowing full well it will cause a scene and maybe a outbreak of fighting?


People should learn to control their ultra-nationalist emotions.



Freedom of speech isn't free without limits. It always has been that way.


True. But now you would ask that someone be jailed/fined/deported for burning a piece of fabric.


1. Immigrants/ New Citizens are the future of this country. Why would you knowingly invite the people who hate America want to destroy/change it for the worse? Does that make any sense to you?

2. Freedom grants you the right to do as you will as long as it isn't illegal or considered dangerous and causing riots. Freedom doesn't grant you the right of acting like a crazy loon in public.

3. No it's just called instigating a fight and there are plenty of laws that make it a crime to instigate fight/rioting. Try again.

4. The only piece of fabric that should be considered sacred is the American flag. Nothing else. With your logic, you can say the constitution can/should be burned too because it's just a piece of paper with ink on it.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:30 AM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: RickinVa



As a person, they reserve the right to kick your ass for your stupidity.


No, they do not have the right to attack another person for what they consider stupidity.

To say so is...well, stupid.



Okie dokie pokie... how many flags do you burn everyday?

Have you ever burnt a flag in protest?

No? Then you are just flapping your ATS gums and it means nothing.... just like burning that flag.

It's just stupid all right. The problem is where the stupidity lies.
edit on R302016-11-29T08:30:57-06:00k3011Vam by RickinVa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:31 AM
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originally posted by: 4N0M4LY

YOU LIVE IN AMERICA. YOU have also agreed to honor the flag that represents the country you're living in.

.


i did....
when did this happen?
i didnt agree to #. nobody asked me anything so what are you talking about?

im glad i live in the states over some other places...sure
people want to put me in jail or charge me money for burning a symbol? yeah, sure sounds like freedom to me



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:32 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

The issue here appears to be an exercise in determining what, if anything, is considered legally punishable versus what is considered freedom of expression and whether government can make it a punishable crime to burn the US flag (for any reason contrary to the flag code) - and in regards to Trumps tweet - what one person views as disrespectful another views as righteous indignation of US government policy

I just hope he doesn't consider an executive order adding anyone who unfollows or disrespects him on twitter to the terrorist watch list.




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