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Trump suggests jail, loss of citizenship for burning U.S. flag

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posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe


Someone pissing on the very symbol of the country they chose to come to is disrespectful to all those that died for it.


What if it was on fire?




posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: JohnnyElohim




The most craven among them call for a singular "ethnostate" and most of them want something of this sort, but they all want some form of monostate where those with whom they differ substantially enough have no place.

Your descriptive post.
Real world application...
www.newsweek.com...


When playwright Eve Ensler wrote The Vagina Monologues, which premiered in 1996 and has been performed thousands of times by actors, celebrities and college students, she probably did not foresee a day when a performance of her feminist agitprop would be canceled because it was offensive to “women without vaginas.” And yet that day did come—at Mount Holyoke, one of the nation’s premier women’s colleges

So yeah it happens as much as you would like to deny.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:00 AM
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originally posted by: rockintitz
I don't know..

I agree that someone should be able to express themselves however they see fit, flag burning included.

But the act of burning the flag shows such contempt for one's own country. At the very least you should be barred from holding a government job or public office if caught disrespecting the flag.


And get every fine available for lighting something up in public without permits and paying for the fire dept on hand.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:00 AM
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originally posted by: RickinVa

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Vasa Croe

YES it is disrespectful, but our 1st Amendment is clear on this. Not to mention the various rulings throughout American history that uphold this. Burning a flag is protected free speech. You don't have to LIKE the action. Nor do you have to like the person who does it, but DAMMIT trying to punish them legally for it is unamerican! I'm standing up for my 1st Amendment rights. Not because I want to actually go out and burn a flag.


Like I said... go burn a flag in front of a bunch of veterans.

Being charged with a crime will be the least of your worries.

Hell... just walk into any AMVET or VFW building and burn a flag... that is your constitutional right. Let us know what legal charges are levied against you.

Good luck.


So your saying that vets don't actually believe in and support the first amendment.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:01 AM
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originally posted by: rockintitz

But the act of burning the flag shows such contempt for one's own country. At the very least you should be barred from holding a government job or public office if caught disrespecting the flag.

That's easy. Just don't vote for that person. That'll bar them from office really quickly.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted

That is quite a thought experiment!



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:03 AM
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originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: RickinVa

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Vasa Croe

YES it is disrespectful, but our 1st Amendment is clear on this. Not to mention the various rulings throughout American history that uphold this. Burning a flag is protected free speech. You don't have to LIKE the action. Nor do you have to like the person who does it, but DAMMIT trying to punish them legally for it is unamerican! I'm standing up for my 1st Amendment rights. Not because I want to actually go out and burn a flag.


Like I said... go burn a flag in front of a bunch of veterans.

Being charged with a crime will be the least of your worries.

Hell... just walk into any AMVET or VFW building and burn a flag... that is your constitutional right. Let us know what legal charges are levied against you.

Good luck.


So your saying that vets don't actually believe in and support the first amendment.


Nope didn't say that.

I said walk into a VFW or an AMVET and burn a flag. Remind them that is your constitutional right to do so.

No one knows what will happen until you do that.

Take one for the team.... and come back and tell us what happens.

Until then, it is an unknown.
edit on R032016-11-29T11:03:35-06:00k0311Vam by RickinVa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:03 AM
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originally posted by: Profusion
The following is the text of the relevant tweet from Trump.


Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!

LINK


While I would never burn a flag myself, I don't see how it's not speech protected by the First Amendment. These kinds of statements by Trump are baffling to me. They make Trump sound like a tyrant, and I believe they can only hurt him.

If his position on the issue of flag burning is the statement above, how does it help him to say it? A POTUS cannot make laws alone. Even if a new law were passed concerning this issue, it would almost certainly have to be decided by the Supreme Court. A POTUS' opinions concerning issues such as the statement above are basically irrelevant in the big picture.

My point is that a POTUS can only lose by making a statement such as the one above. Trump is giving his critics ammunition to easily criticize him, and I believe he's tarnishing his image more than his critics ever could.


It should be a crime to burn the flag of the U.S.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:05 AM
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Burning the flag is poor form, but is protected via freedom of speech. I don't see that changing.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:06 AM
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S.1911 - Flag Protection Act of 2005


Cosponsor Date Cosponsored
Sen. Clinton, Hillary Rodham [D-NY]* 10/24/2005



Introduced in Senate (10/24/2005)
Flag Protection Act of 2005 - Amends the federal criminal code to revise provisions regarding desecration of the flag to prohibit: (1) destroying or damaging a U.S. flag with the primary purpose and intent to incite or produce imminent violence or a breach of the peace; (2) intentionally threatening or intimidating any person, or group of persons, by burning a U.S. flag; or (3) stealing or knowingly converting the use of a U.S. flag belonging to the United States, or belonging to another person on U.S. lands, and intentionally destroying or damaging that flag.



IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
October 24, 2005

Mr. Bennett (for himself and Mrs. Clinton) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
...
“(c) Flag burning.—Any person who shall intentionally threaten or intimidate any person or group of persons by burning, or causing to be burned, a flag of the United States shall be fined not more than $100,000, imprisoned for not more than 1 year, or both.

www.congress.gov...



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: LSU0408

The nazis said the same about their flag. Sorry but if you want freedom it should be allowed....Its only a flag...



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:07 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Vasa Croe

That is a bull# story. I posted the Supreme Court ruling and discussion already in the thread and that issue wasn't part of it.


Hmmm....so the Federal Flag Desecration Law passed by Congress in 1968 didn't make it illegal with fines and imprisonment as consequences for burning the flag?


(1) Whoever knowingly mutilates, defaces, physically defiles, burns, maintains on the floor or ground, or tramples upon any flag of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
(2) This subsection does not prohibit any conduct consisting of the disposal of a flag when it has become worn or soiled.
(b) As used in this section, the term “flag of the United States” means any flag of the United States, or any part thereof, made of any substance, of any size, in a form that is commonly displayed.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as indicating an intent on the part of Congress to deprive any State, territory, possession, or the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico of jurisdiction over any offense over which it would have jurisdiction in the absence of this section.
(d)
(1) An appeal may be taken directly to the Supreme Court of the United States from any interlocutory or final judgment, decree, or order issued by a United States district court ruling upon the constitutionality of subsection (a).
(2) The Supreme Court shall, if it has not previously ruled on the question, accept jurisdiction over the appeal and advance on the docket and expedite to the greatest extent possible.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:07 AM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: uncommitted

That is quite a thought experiment!


Thank you, I couldn't resist it



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: LSU0408


Most likely it is a crime to light something on fire in public without a permit and safety regulations.

In order to make your statement true with classical liberal ideology our forefathers inspired you would never be able to buy and own a flag.

The flag as a symbol does not trump personal liberty and private property rights. If it does its being used as propaganda against the constitution.
edit on 29-11-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-11-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: marg6043

As a European I agree, IMO a flag is a symbol of a country, not the actual government neither any political view. If someone burns a flag it is a disrespect against that country and if someone doesn't like that country enough to burn their flag, should rightly F... off to somewhere else.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: RickinVa

So they are hypocritical unless they say "we wish you had more respect but it's OK because it's your right".



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:09 AM
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originally posted by: RickinVa

I said walk into a VFW or an AMVET and burn a flag. Remind them that is your constitutional right to do so.
Take one for the team.... and come back and tell us what happens.



OK, I just got back from the VFW. A couple of senile WWII vets helped me burn the flag, thinking we were having a BBQ or something. There were only like 3 guys there. The third guy was a vietnam vet with one leg who looked at me like I was crazy, but he wasn't in much of a position to do anything about it.

We accidentally started a grease fire in the kitchen and the fire-department showed up. Otherwise, no big deal.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:09 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: rockintitz

But the act of burning the flag shows such contempt for one's own country. At the very least you should be barred from holding a government job or public office if caught disrespecting the flag.

That's easy. Just don't vote for that person. That'll bar them from office really quickly.


You're right, and I wouldn't. But some people still might.

Overt actions against the flag of your own country show that you do not have the capacity to work for its best interests. IMO that should be grounds for disqualification.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:10 AM
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The thought police and PC folks sure came quickly to the defense of Trump on this one.

Can't burn a flag because it offends someone, the irony is thick but is lost on many.

(The word snowflake comes to mind)

Trump is really tackling the important issues, is he not?

Man - those people out there burning flags. What a horror.

Forget all of the soldiers, marines, airmen, etc who have lost their lives in a proxy war fighting against an enemy that's been armed, trained, and funded by their own government.

Forget all of the veterans who have returned home and cannot cope with civilian life or now have permanent disabilities.

Forget all the innocent lives lost on the battlefield due to empire and pointless proxy wars.

Forget all of this and more - forget drone programs, illegal surveillance of American citizens, forget using militarized tactics on peaceful protesters - but oh be by golly you better not burn down that flag!!1!1!

The rise of fascism in America is at our doorstep. It has been for quite some time, it's no longer being hidden, however. And people are cheering for it. It is madness.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

What are you talking about? You do know that in order for the SCOTUS to rule on something it must already be a law right. THUS if I point out a SCOTUS ruling then I am also acknowledging the existence of a law related to that ruling.




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