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Trump suggests jail, loss of citizenship for burning U.S. flag

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posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

So no response? First a strawman and now a deflection. I'm quickly seeing that you are out of arguments beyond just a basic appeal to emotion.




posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: RickinVa
a reply to: Krazysh0t

"I SAID that people who want to punish people for desecrating the flag are analogous to the Muslims who want to punish people for desecrating Mohammad."

So you are saying that people who have patriaotic feelings for their countries flags are the same as those who get offended by a drawing of Mohammed.

Is that correct?





NO! I called it a strawman. Do you not know what a strawman is?


I know you just said that people who care about the flag of their country and what happens to it are the same as those who want to kill people because they are offended because someone drew a picture of Mohammed.

You said it... I didn't.

You are trying to compare people who get upset over a tangible physical object to people who get upset over an imaginary God. Doesn't work.
edit on R242016-11-29T10:24:37-06:00k2411Vam by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on R242016-11-29T10:24:49-06:00k2411Vam by RickinVa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: ColdWisdom

Maybe you weren't around back in the '80s when Congress tried to pass an amendment against flag-burning:

Veterans burn U.S. flags to protest law

In the late '60s/early '70s, I watched my dad (navy vet) protect and defend a Vietnam vet trying to burn the flag, saying to the effect that he fought for that man's right to protest and for everyone to get the hell out of his way. In the end, the guy didn't burn the flag, and my dad brought him home and he camped out in our backyard for a couple months until he could get on his feet. My silly veteran dad thought it was a greater outrage that our vets were being treated so piss poorly by the people and virtually abandoned by the nation they had fought for. And silly me, I agree. Just look at our VA hospitals... the number of vets suffering from PTSD... the number of vets committing suicide... the number of vets who are homeless and struggling every day.

Which outrages me more??? I'll bet you know.

The flag is a piece of cloth. Nothing more and nothing less. Protecting that flag but refusing to make sure that flag represents a country worth its salt is simply symbolism over substance.

In Their Own Words: Compendium of Veterans' Quotes Against the Flag Desecration Amendment

VETERANS AGAINST FLAG-BURNING AMENDMENT



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:23 AM
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Forcing people to respect a symbol out of fear doesn't promote love for country.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Vasa Croe

So no response? First a strawman and now a deflection. I'm quickly seeing that you are out of arguments beyond just a basic appeal to emotion.


I did respond, and actually you specifically said that I sound like one calling for a lynching....nothing about other people.

I'm quickly seeing that you post very emotionally and use the strawman term a lot.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:23 AM
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I don't think it should be illegal, but I think it should be given the highest level of social ostracization that a community can give.
defriend off facebook, do not serve as diners, not welcome at church, not welcome at any american function.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: RickinVa
No I didn't. I said what I said, and now you are trying to pretend like all people with patriotic feelings necessarily believe that someone desecrating the flag should be punished which isn't true. Hence my label for your argument as a strawman.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:24 AM
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I think we all should be allowed to publicly deface patriotic monuments because I need to protest the things I don't agree with. It's just a block of cemet so it should be within my right to do so.
edit on 29-11-2016 by 4N0M4LY because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: RickinVa

Sorry, man--I'm a veteran, too (as is my wife), but I/we understand that they have the freedom to burn it. I have the right to get upset, to call them names, to record them and make a mockery of them on social media, but what I don't have the "right" to do is physically assault anyone who is not assaulting myself or someone else.

It's a flag--I didn't serve for a flag, I served to protect the rights and freedoms of all Americans. If I then decide to pick and choose which rights and freedoms others should be able to exercise, that then would make me an asinine caricature of someone who claims to fight to maintain the rights and freedoms of all Americans.

So, which is it--did you serve to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States of America (which defends the right of flag burners to burn their flags), or are you going to piss and moan about someone doing something in line with the Constitution just because it hurts your feelings, and then claim that it's okay for you (or a generic veteran) to kick said flag burner's ass?

Let's not stoop to the level of a SJW and claim that violence is okay because of hurt feelings.

Look, I disagree with flag burning--I think that it makes the person burning the flag look much more ignorant and idiotic than any point that they're trying to make could remain valid after the fact--but my appreciation for the freedom to do so far outweighs how much flag burning bothers me. Let them burn the flag, let them look stupid doing it, and then walk away knowing that you are the better person. Breaking the law (assaulting the individual) in response to someone not breaking the law lacks reason and logic.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Vasa Croe

So no response? First a strawman and now a deflection. I'm quickly seeing that you are out of arguments beyond just a basic appeal to emotion.


There is no logical explanation to ban flag burning in general without getting into the slippery slope argument.

How about supporting the troops by holding politicians accountable for their misuse? How about sending them to battle without the proper equipment in a preemptive war? Or selling arms to rebels that in turn shoot and kill our forces? I hold no party favoritism everybody has some egg on their faces.

Fake convictions if you ask me.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

Ok let's put it this way. Someone who wants to punish someone for desecrating (read: public burning) the flag sounds just like a crazy Muslim who wants to lynch someone for desecrating Mohammad. There happy? Can we move on from silly semantics arguments and your emotional appeals now? Or am I right about your argument having no substance?
edit on 29-11-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: 4N0M4LY

Is this block of cement some one elses?

Bad argument



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:25 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
Jail and loss of citizenship, loss of whatever for burning or defacing a symbol of a thing?.

...Ok...And there are those who have issues with Muslims cutting off people's heads and tearing stuff up over insulting the Prophet Muhammad, or burning the Q'ran or whatever symbol the babies wanna be sensitive about on this or that day...

Grow the # up and realize your current president is a #ing idiot who wants to respond to trivialities the same way as those he claims to be against...

I don't usually call people idiots, but this # is just getting #ing ridiculous.

Don't be one.


Some here don't look at the US flag like a company logo...call me crazy but I find the fact that a LOT of people died to keep that flag from falling is something important to remember.

And our current POTUS is Obama...and yes he is everything you just described and then some.


Back in the 1920-1940's you would have been arrested for desecrating the flag. Times indeed have changed hahah and not always for the better.

You probably would have been labeled a Nazi sympathyzer in those times.


Well apparently I am already being labelled an ultra-nationalist because I care about what the US flag stands for.

It's all background noise to me really. I just hope these same feelings that the ultra-socialist lefties have now don't ever extend to those that actually defend our country, and by defend I mean die for it, not protest about it. If that happened we can all just wait for the super peaceful takeover by another country who just hasn't gone to sensitivity training yet.

I'm a veteran and I support the right to burn a flag. In fact I could care less what someone does to that piece of cloth. My idea of what America is and represents extends BEYOND a simple cloth. It's a nice stop gap representation but only a shallow person would put that much weight behind a symbol that they'd pursue legal actions against people who ruin it.

You sound like the crazy Muslims who will lynch you if you portray Mohammad in a bad light.


Quoting it for you since you seem to have forgotten what you actually posted.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: 4N0M4LY

This is a false equivalency to burning someone's flag--it's not as if we're discussion someone who climbed atop the White House and burned its flag, or is out burning someone else's property. That's a whole different discussion if we're going to assume that they're burning someone else's property and not their own--but that's an irrelevant point to this discussion.

Defacing public monuments is illegal. Again, you're not comparing apple to apples.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: 4N0M4LY

totally awesome that you promote violence against people that choose to burn a flag.

bro



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

So nope. You have no depth to your argument then I see...



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: 4N0M4LY

Is this block of cement some one elses?

Bad argument


Shouldn't matter. I have a right to voice my opinion. Just like asking is that flag someone elses? Moot point



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: RickinVa
No I didn't. I said what I said, and now you are trying to pretend like all people with patriotic feelings necessarily believe that someone desecrating the flag should be punished which isn't true. Hence my label for your argument as a strawman.


So you didnt say that those who get upset at desecrating a flag are the same as the people who want to kill people for desecrating their God.

Go back and read what you posted and give up the straw man bs.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:28 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Ok let's put it this way. Someone who wants to punish someone for desecrating (read: public burning) the flag sounds just like a crazy Muslim who wants to lynch someone for desecrating Mohammad. There happy? Can we move on from silly semantics arguments and your emotional appeals now? Or am I right about your argument having no substance?


So there's no in between for you? Punishment=lynching? I don't recall seeing lynching or death in the tweet or really anyone but you mentioning it in this respect.

And you say MY views are extreme?

Sure...I have plenty of substance. Apparently it is the type that you are unable to understand.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:28 AM
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originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: introvert


I think the ultra-nationalist types that get pissed when someone burns a flag should be more outraged at the amount of American flags that are made in China.


I'm outraged by that as well.

But not as outraged as I get when I see someone who hasn't committed one day of their life to serving this country burn the flag of the country that my grandfather fought for in the second world war.


Trump dodged your draft four times and stated in an interview that 'Sex was my Vietnam' -

www.conservativereview.com...

but you don't find that dishonourable, nor assumption that he is allowed to trample over the rights of freedom of expression?

Interesting.



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