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The Major Reason You Can't Afford Medical Insurance

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posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: crayzeed
You Yanks are insurance mad. Some-one please tell me how much insurance companies make every year out of people paying into their system but not claiming? I'll bet you it's in the billions, so who's fleecing who?
You're so quick to blame those that can't pay "oh, I'm not paying for anyone else, only for me". Yet you do not question the insurance providers about their high costs and let them rape the vulnerable.
We had the very best system in the world here in the UK and we are allowing these, these people in power now trying to drag our system down to your debacle of a system of can't pay no treatment. Talk about mercenary.


You're woefully ignorant to how our healthcare system works.

No one is denied emergency healthcare because they lack insurance or the ability to pay. In fact, that's part of the system that is exploited, leaving higher bills for those of us who can pay so that the hospitals (et al.) can recoup their losses.

And people who say that they're only paying for themselves are ignorant to how insurance works--it's a collective pool, so even though I rarely (maybe once every two years) need to see a doctor other than for an annual check up, I'm paying for the other person/people in my pool who are in with their doctors and specialists multiple times per year.

But that's part of the insurance scheme that I dislike. My history and my history alone should determine my healthcare costs, but since it's not politically correct and gets shamed for allegedly lacking empathy (mostly by people in other countries who claim to have the best healthcare system in the world) for other human beings, I am forced to carry the burden of the cost of people in poor health.

It'd be the same in a nationalized system too, though, and since we are now forbidden by law from abstaining from buying a product by our overbearing central government, I can't even start a health savings account and opt out of insurance altogether, even though that would save me and my family money on an annual basis (yes, we have done the math, to include comparing what our doctors charge for visits if not using insurance, which is always cheaper).




posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey
Insurance is about the unknown, and being judged on only your health sounds super. Until you have 1 polyp removed during a colonoscopy and it turns out to be precancerous. Guess how much insurance you could buy?

Now that almost everyone is insured, the costs keep going up. Even though the emergency room are less traveled, if they are indeed less traveled like we were told would happen.



But that's part of the insurance scheme that I dislike. My history and my history alone should determine my healthcare costs,



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

I agree with your point on stagnant/backwards wages and wealth inequality being issues, but even if there were more money to pay for medical coverage, health insurance is still a fundamentally flawed concept. Insurance of any type only works when catastrophic damage is confined to a small percentage of the risk pool, but most serious illnesses are too common for that. Worse yet, almost all of us get some serious illness.

The premium structure of insurance just doesn't work. The only part of it that does work, is the ability to negotiate lower rates due to purchasing services in bulk. The insurance system just isn't viable.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: Christosterone
My wife is a physician(MD, FACEP)...

The reason healthcare costs are through the roof is a direct effect of the affordable care act...

It's causality...

-Chris


And yet, since the ACA was passed, the year over year growth in premiums is smaller than it used to be. It's easy to forget this now, but what prompted the ACA in the first place was the fact that medical costs were becoming unaffordable at an exponential rate.

The ACA is the reason your wife still has patients.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: katfish
Did not read the OP.
But I was alive in 1975. Health insurance back then was major medical. Meaning my folks paid for the dentist, the doctor. Meaning MY PARENTS took the responsibility of keeping me healthy. And dad held 2 jobs.


Did you just suggest that people should work two jobs in order to afford health care?



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

My parents had blue cross blue shield in 1975. No co pays no bull crap. There was a working adult and it was understood that it was part of the employment deal.

Now it is about getting the absolute highest cost for services and doing the least to get it.

I had carpal tunnel surgery. There were 6 in the waiting room, and my surgery was $7.000 a hand. I think there is huge $ being made. And that's cool, but it is a bubble, I had a consult, 15 min. surgery. Oh course the Dr. had to look at tests, I was awake for the surgery. I was amazed at the cost.

I am thankful that my hands feel so much better and the Dr. was excellent. But our health care this is going to end bad.
edit on 29-11-2016 by seasonal because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

When I was a kid in the 90's I think my mom had Blue Cross Blue Shield as well.

In my 7th grade year I got extremely sick early in the year. So sick I couldn't attend school. The teachers would send assignment packets home for me to work on each week and I self taught off those packets as I was able (alongside a twice a week, personal tutor). When I say I was sick, I mean extremely sick. I could barely stand up, and I had dizzy spells so bad I was effectively bedridden. I should have been hospitalized, but the insurance would only cover medication and doctors visits not hospitalization. In their view 1 year of that was cheaper than 1 month of intensive care in the hospital.

What I remember most from this experience, was watching my mom go to work every day and feel like the worst parent in the world because she wanted nothing more than to stay home and care for me. But if she did that, she would lose the employer provided health care and no other insurance would be available. Thus, she was forced to go into work, and leave a bedridden child sick and alone at home every day, just to continue to have a means to get me medication.

That was my first real interaction with employer provided health care. It makes people into slaves to keep insurance.
edit on 29-11-2016 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Yep, the system is set up for one thing to make money. If it wasn't for the profits of course the hospital would go bye bye.
I am glad that you had a mom that sacrificed and did what needed to be done. It is a crying shame that our system is so interwoven with exclusions, co pays, deductions, in and out of network, and so on, and so on.

One day we will figure it out, I hope it is before this whole system gets pricked by a pin.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 02:58 PM
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There are a lot of issues, not a simple issue.

medical insurance has sucked up any wage gains we may have had.

Blame:
-us patent law and the FDA vs the rest of the world
-Government/healthcare merger
-drugs and treatments allow sick people to live a long time, take up more services and be a net drain on insurance, this was not quite the issue 50 years ago.
-There are so many drugs and treatments now, so many avenues we did not have before. These cost did not exist before.
-old people do not move in with their children like they used to.
-AMA keeping a purposeful shortage of doctors to keep wages up and limiting what other medical workers like PA's can do. PA's can generally do most of what a doctor can do in a normal checkup.
-Keeping insurance within state lines, defacto state monopolies

Non-medical
-Trade deals with countries that not only pay less, but destroy their environment in the process, hard to compete, the trade deals are not as fair as one would like to believe
-regulations on fossil fuels that keep energy prices higher than they need to be, energy is a base cost in all products.
-americans getting nickel and dimed from all sorts of taxes, fees, and licensing.
-a non-producing population that must be fed by the producing population(old people, welfare, esp welfare children, etc)
-using immigration and hence a labor surplus to keep wages down. started in 1965, these immigrants greatly increase policing and education cost, the debate still rages on whether they are a net gain or loss.
-closing the gold window 1971
-Zoning and other ordinances to prevent wealth loss of real estate, this is a huge factor in wealth inequality
-general lack of innovation that lowers the base product for the consumer. Most products now are overpriced with pointless bells and whistles.
For ex. Adding in all the computers, cameras and gizmos to new vehicles imo is waste, getting a new vehicle with year 2000 tech under $8,000 is much more of a net gain to me.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 06:42 PM
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Trickle down DOES work and HAS worked forever. Sure, in capitalism wealth will concentrate, but the rising tide lifts all ships.

You're assessment is limited in that it does not take into account effectual wealth.

See that nice car I just bought? (Workers in Kentucky "made" it). It was assembled by a shrinking, often robotic workforce. But here's the kicker. Sure, auto workers have seen a decline in numbers, but what about the people who engineered the robots? What about the ones who assembled them? Are there maintainers of these robots SEPARATE from the operators? You bet your assistance there are. What about the corporate jobs surrounding these robots who handle things like warranty claims, IT support for the engineers, executives to ensure proper business models, etc?

Sure, autoworker numbers have declined but overall jobs have been replaced TENFOLD due to EFFECTUAL wealth.

Your models conveniently leave all of this out.
edit on 29-11-2016 by Tempter because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Yes indeed. A family member had a standard culture of urine to confirm bacterial UTI, so antibiotics could be prescribed with due diligence having been done. Both physician and lab were in network.

Not a preventive service, obviously, so since deductible hadnt been met, cost was out of pocket.

$240.

For the same exact diagnostic that cost me $46 out of pocket just 3 yrs ago.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 07:34 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

In Illinois, premiums rose more from 2014 to 2017 than in the prior 10 years. 2014 is when the "Affordable" Care Act really kicked in, and "Obamacare" policies became mandatory.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 07:40 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Christosterone
My wife is a physician(MD, FACEP)...

The reason healthcare costs are through the roof is a direct effect of the affordable care act...

It's causality...

-Chris


And yet, since the ACA was passed, the year over year growth in premiums is smaller than it used to be. It's easy to forget this now, but what prompted the ACA in the first place was the fact that medical costs were becoming unaffordable at an exponential rate.

The ACA is the reason your wife still has patients.


My wife is an inner city ER physician...

She has patients because people die every day...she is a physician for the uninsured, indigent populations at the 5th largest level I trauma center in the entire United States...

-Chris



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:06 PM
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a reply to: Christosterone

And who pays for those patients to be seen?



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:15 PM
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a reply to: Tempter

What do you suppose the ratio of lost workers to the new automated jobs? How about the Fanuc robots? I have worked on lines that have them, they require 1 maintenance visit by a certified service tech to grease and change the oil in servos.
They need to be programmed once, and then the info is stored in the computer. Hit the right keys and it will stack boxes or install doors just right.

If trickle down worked, then the productivity would have been shared with the worker, and it hadn't since 1975. If it had, couples could have one person stay at home, and still afford health insurance.





edit on 29-11-2016 by seasonal because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:16 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Our taxes mainly...
Level I trauma centers are paid for by about 6-9% paying patients from the clinical side and subsidies from taxation...

-Chris



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:32 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Christosterone

And who pays for those patients to be seen?


since she works in the er it would be the same people as before ., the middle class .

obamavare didnt help her patients one bit. but thanks to obamacare i pay more and get less service. along with the majority of americans.

however on a good note the top 3 health insurance corporations that helped draft obamcare saw a 45 degree positive incline with their earnings.

obamcare was a scam from the start when they kept the insurance companies involved. even as a libertarian , I would have preferred a socialisd healthcare system than that insurance scam.




edit on 211130America/ChicagoTue, 29 Nov 2016 21:21:06 -0600000000p3042 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:09 PM
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originally posted by: Christosterone
a reply to: Aazadan

Our taxes mainly...
Level I trauma centers are paid for by about 6-9% paying patients from the clinical side and subsidies from taxation...

-Chris


With the ACA expanding insurance coverage, it means a greater percentage of ER visits actually get paid for rather than simply being a loss for the hospital.

Atleast in the sane states. If I remember correctly, you're in Texas which didn't do anything to fix the Medicaid Gap issue, so your percentage of uninsured is still much higher.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:13 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Christosterone
a reply to: Aazadan

Our taxes mainly...
Level I trauma centers are paid for by about 6-9% paying patients from the clinical side and subsidies from taxation...

-Chris


With the ACA expanding insurance coverage, it means a greater percentage of ER visits actually get paid for rather than simply being a loss for the hospital.

Atleast in the sane states. If I remember correctly, you're in Texas which didn't do anything to fix the Medicaid Gap issue, so your percentage of uninsured is still much higher.


No offense but it's painful how little u understand about hospitals...
Especially compared to how much u think u know...which is a juvenile understanding at best...

-Chris
edit on 29-11-2016 by Christosterone because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

I don't think things like cancer treatment or a heart transplant are done at the emergency room...



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