The Constitution lets the electoral college choose the winner. They should choose Clinton.

originally posted by: justneo
a reply to: oddnutz

I too am not American and I seem to understand it more then some. Just because they didn't get what they want they think they can change/bend/break the rules.... The rules were set this way for a reason.

Yes, I see quite a few "not American" on right now. Well I am American and this is my country and my President has said I should let my voice be heard so thank you all for hearing me. However, as I am on American time, I need to sleep.

Have a good rest of the day wherever you are

Just remember I'm not asking anyone to change the rules. Electors should exercise their Constitutional vote and all I'm saying is keep it in favor of the winner of the American people's choice: Hillary Clinton.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: oddnutz
Then you don't agree in equal citizenship. You believe a person in one state should have a more valuable vote than a person in another state.

Oh I entirely believe that some people's votes should be listened to more closely than others.

I also think that voting should be tied to tax records. If you were able and available to work (not student/retired/medically unfit/etc) but you haven't in the period since the last election, no vote for you this time! Go and become a contributor in the next election cycle if you want your opinion to count.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: dragonridr


The electoral college is designed as a fail safe. It was not designed to undermine the people's vote. Normally, Electoral and Popular are in alignment... The person who wins the Electoral College vote, also wins the Popular Vote. It's very unusual for it not to work that way... and when it doesn't it's supposed to be in the event that the electoral college needs to override the people's votes. We've simply grown used to the Electoral College being the end all-- and we've incorrectly started saying thing like "our vote doesn't really matter." That was not the intention of the EC. The EC is free to vote however it chooses... I believe the right choice in this case is to not veto 2.1 million votes, but to stand in alignment with the American people's choice.

Nothing you said here has any resemblance to reality. It wasn't a fail safe anything that's stupid to even say since it is how we elect presidents. Oh and just so you know this has happened before and yes the founding fathers knew it would since one of the people it happened to was Andrew Jackson. In 1824 Andrew Jackson won the popular vote but got less than 50 percent of the electoral votes. John Quincy Adams became the next president and no one tried to claim something was amiss or change the rules. After all he helped write the rules again before you make stupid statements without facts read the federalist papers. Then you can understand why the popular vote doesn't all ways win by there design. The difference now is states lock in the votes they don't have to if they don't want to. They can change there state constitution to give away there delegates any way they choose. If California wants it to be by popular vote they can do that ( really don't think they would want that since popular vote may go the other way but again there choice) if another state wants it to be delegates choice they can do that as well. You can argue all you like but until you know why its set up that way theres no point even furthering this conversation with anyone.

a reply to: EvillerBob

I sometimes wish I could award more than one star...and this is one of those times!!!

ETA...we won't get into the semantics of 'unemployment' (i.e. people who want to work, are willing and able, but for whom there are no jobs) because this would tangle the theme up pretty quickly. However, the theme is good. Perhaps just add 'legally unemployed' to your exception list.

a reply to: EvillerBob

First of all, your nation is not either a democracy, or a republic but BOTH.

If I have to explain this one more time, I am going to drop a godamn nut. I tire of those so ill informed as to refute or ignore this actual FACT. Your nation is a republic, which votes for its leaders using a Democratic ballot, so no matter what else may be happening, democracy IS central to, and part of the description of, your nation.

You do not have to like it or accept it for it to be true, but it might help you out in the long run if you do, since truth no matter how ugly, is always more beautiful than a lie.

Second, unless every vote carries the same weight, not a different amount dependent on the size of the state it issues from, the process itself is invalid. So yes, Sha'Qu'Nita and the farmer have PRECISELY the same say, and if they do not, then your system is broken, because you are establishing a false equivalency here. Realistically, Sha'Qu'Nita and the farmer have a common enemy, and that is those who do no work but earn BILLIONS by doing nothing. Sha'Qu'Nita and the farmer are also BOTH producing things their country needs. Food from the farmer, and flesh from the mother. Deny it all you like, but a population whose majority are in their dotage, does not benefit an economy in the least, and causes severe problems for companies and government departments, because of a lack of spare labour availability stifling productivity, as you see in places like Japan, for example.

When your nation goes to war, it will not be the aged farmer who picks up his kit bag and goes off to war. Flesh and food feed the machinery of your nation, and much as we would wish it otherwise, both must be represented one to one, in order for a ballot to be valid. Whether ones contribution is to crank out children to be sent to war or feed the factories with labour, or food to feed everyone makes NO difference to the worth of ones vote. As it stands, you may as well accept dictatorship, because that is what you have as long as your system remains as it is.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

originally posted by: justneo
a reply to: oddnutz

I too am not American and I seem to understand it more then some. Just because they didn't get what they want they think they can change/bend/break the rules.... The rules were set this way for a reason.

Yes, I see quite a few "not American" on right now. Well I am American and this is my country and my President has said I should let my voice be heard so thank you all for hearing me. However, as I am on American time, I need to sleep.

Have a good rest of the day wherever you are

Just remember I'm not asking anyone to change the rules. Electors should exercise their Constitutional vote and all I'm saying is keep it in favor of the winner of the American people's choice: Hillary Clinton.

I am all for that, except when you deduct the 3 million dead people votes, and the 4 million illegal alien votes for Hillary, she comes out way short.

originally posted by: Diisenchanted
a reply to: spiritualzombie

The electoral collage was set up to give the states equal power. The people are the ones that choose! Just because every idiot in California and New York voted for Clinton doesn't mean that we should allow them to dictate to the rest of the country.

There are already a dozen threads on this same topic. If you want to know how ATS feels try reading.

Just more click bait. That is how I personally feel. This has been hashed over again and again.

Just one example here ATS

No....it was to give the rural communities equal sayso with urban population centers...

Which in large part was to allow the big land owners to have a bigger say than the peasants....

The oligarchs own a larger part of the rural population than they do nationally.

So they rig the system to make sure they get to out rank the average American by their rural votes, counting 2 or 3 to 1 relative to the urban votes..where the uber rich made up a far smaller piece of the population...


None of this is because of trump.... though if he actually does double down on the crazies he has appointed. The GOP route in 2 years will be crushing.

There are WAy more liberal types in America. Another few years and no amount of gerrymandering or electoral nonsense will outnumber them.

Its simple.

Just pretend the vote for potus is treated like some kind of parlimentary appointment.
The state governors are the members of parliment.
The popular vote in each state dictates the vote of the governor.
The governors vote on dec 17th 30 to 18 in favor of Trump.

Its that easy.

Furthermore, imagine that many governors (7 states to break a tie?) defying the will of their constituents... it would be chaos

What did Hillary say about accepting the outcome?

Her supporters should respect that but then again.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: EvillerBob

Realistically, Sha'Qu'Nita and the farmer have a common enemy, and that is those who do no work but earn BILLIONS by doing nothing. Sha'Qu'Nita and the farmer are also BOTH producing things their country needs. Food from the farmer, and flesh from the mother. Deny it all you like, but a population whose majority are in their dotage, does not benefit an economy in the least, and causes severe problems for companies and government departments, because of a lack of spare labour availability stifling productivity, as you see in places like Japan, for example.

You think Sha'Qu'Nita is raising strapping young lads that will go out and work the nation's fields or build the nation's buildings? You think they have any intention of being net contributors to a system to support others in their dotage?

Justice may be blind, but cynicism isn't. Your point is entirely valid, up until the moment it hits human nature.

Some people have made themselves worth less than others. Sorry. If you prefer, change "Sha'Qui'Nita" to "Vicky Pollard".

a reply to: JoshuaCox

What a load of putrid, stinking, rotting, GARBAGE that is!!

What's even worse is the fact you "learned" that somewhere, because it sounds exactly like something which would come out of our twisted education system! A system of Social Engineering run amok!

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

So they rig the system to make sure they get to out rank the average American by their rural votes, counting 2 or 3 to 1 relative to the urban votes..where the uber rich made up a far smaller piece of the population...

If you lost the cities, the country would continue. If you lost the rural areas, the country would starve.

Cities are basically sink traps for people who sacrifice self-reliance for self-importance.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

He's not saying the popular vote doesn't matter. He's saying that it only matters within each state. National totals mean less than nothing, they're, at best, an interesting side note--but one without any importance what so ever in the grand scheme of things.

Nor should they.

My god, what is it that is so hard to understand here?

The popular vote in each state is counted. Which ever candidate wins the popular vote within that state gets those electoral votes, save in a couple/three states who apportion their votes according to percentage.

How is it you're having such an issue understanding this? Or is it deliberate obfuscation on your part? I'm beginning to think this is more likely.

There's an old saying which goes...

"Deny Ignorance"

I just can't for the life of me remember where I saw that!

Perhaps the OP should spend some time and research the origins of the phrase.

originally posted by: oddnutz
a reply to: spiritualzombie

I am not even an American and I understand why the electoral college was set up the way it is rather than having a popular vote.
I don't believe two or three or four states should dictate the future of the rest of the states. The number of electoral vote based on population density in each state is the much fairer system imo to determine the Leader that represents the will of the people in ALL the states in the union.

Not even a US citizen and you get it. You actually get it when the Dems in this country do not
I salute you !!!!!!!!!!

If it were the other way around you would be in the streets protesting and crying... O'wait you still are.
NO.. you lost now go home and deal with it, just as you have said if she would have won.
Time to get over it and move on to take this country to a higher ground.

PS. if you take away the illegal & Dead people votes.. she looses by a long shot.
Then again it's ok for the DEMS to do it...right?

a reply to: EvillerBob

Given that your nation is capitalistic in nature, and given that capitalist nations REQUIRE a certain level of unemployment in order to function, even those without work or on low paid work, contribute to the system in someway.

Of course, that is not widely spoken of, because if it were the furious divide between jobless and low paid persons, and the middle class, would evaporate and everyone involved with the argument would be rather embarrassed by the entire thing.

Whether those individuals grow up to be builders, fitters, carpenters, mechanics, race car drivers, pilots, Marines, or not remains to be seen, and is a) none of your business what so ever, and b) has nothing to do with whether or not the mothers vote should be equal in value to that of a farmer, regardless of which state they happen to live in.

a reply to: seagull
Well , there is always bragging rights for the most popular votes nationwide . Which , in the case of the loser , means zip , zilch , nada , nothing

a reply to: spiritualzombie


Ummm...what part of States rights are you still struggling with...STATES...not gaggles of the delusional...
It doesn't matter how many spiritual zombies you pack into a freak show...If only to prove the theory of lemmings...

You don't get to lord it over the worker bees...

Now get out in the kitchen...and make me a sammich...





YouSir

a reply to: spiritualzombie

Shall we play a game?

Imagine for one second, as passionate as you are about Clinton and harboring as much antipathy as you do for Trump and his voters that the EC situations were reversed and you were a Clinton EC vote. Imagine that you were receiving harassing, even life threatening phone calls and emails for days demanding you change your vote.

Would you?