ATS made the list. We are somebody now

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Senators are the ones who authorized the weaponization of news.

SO now the CIA is legally allowed to run propaganda on US citizens....and their favorite outlet runs a propaganda piece.

Right on time. Queue the next salvo....

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

However far back we want to go, and whatever different factions are claiming has been done - we're looking at a new story here

I've been watching our leading news sites and journalists pointing their fingers at each other and accusing each other of all kinds of crimes for the past two weeks. To the point where they're almost ready to eat their young

What can we talk about, what can't we talk about? What should we do about it?

Our First Amendment has been infected with a virus

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I think the world of "Social justice" and its billyclub "Political Correctness" were the sniffles of that virus.

Yes, MSM (and media in general) is imploding. Im kinda happy about that, honestly. For my entire lifetime, people working any kind of political beat would simply take pressers from their subjects and print them. Its not been "journalism" for a long time.

How will it play out? Who knows. So long as the only legal involvement has to do with civil litigation, Im not too worried about it right now. It can't be much worse than it has been, short of state control.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I think the world of "Social justice" and its billyclub "Political Correctness" were the sniffles of that virus.

Social justice is something that should concern all of us. It's been turned into a pejorative, and allowed people to if not out and out embrace injustice, at least look the other way. I'm not someone that's ever going to stop calling things the way I see it, no matter what people choose to call it - or me

You know what I think Tex (for whatever my opinion might be worth?) People have to start taking responsibility for this in both camps. If we want to continue to believe that this is about only one side bringing it all down around our heads, then we are well and truly screwed

Critical thinking and some self awareness from everyone is what we need right now

Political correctness: how the right invented a phantom enemy

For 25 years, invoking this vague and ever-shifting nemesis has been a favourite tactic of the right – and Donald Trump’s victory is its greatest triumph

The left is in the process of over analyzing it's self and it's culpability in all this even as we speak. It's unconscionable that those more on the right side of things make absolutely no attempt to do the same

My 2 cents :-)

Also probably worth a whole thread of it's own

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Spiramirabilis


SO now the CIA is legally allowed to run propaganda on US citizens....and their favorite outlet runs a propaganda piece.

Hey Tex...Cuz reality matters...Your link asserts that the Wapo article is CIA Prop and that Wapo is a CIA outlet..

It connects the dots thus...

In the meantime, here is a brief historical note on how at the height of the Cold War the CIA developed it’s very own stable of writers, editors and publishers (swelling to as many as 3000 individuals) that it paid to scribble Agency propaganda under a program called Operation Mockingbird.

The disinformation network was supervised by the late Philip Graham, former publisher of Timberg’s very own paper, the Washington Post.

Philip Graham died 53 years ago in 1963?

Several decades before Timberg was even born?

Wapo has changed ownership and management multiple times since then?

Operation Mockingbird was shut down under the Church Commission in 1976. ...and during the mid-century cold war included contacts at virtually every American news outlet, not just the Washington Post circa 1940's and 50's.

A little research goes a long way ...

How exactly is a web forum comprised solely of user generated content a "fake news" site?

Our members (who require nothing other than an email address to become members) share thoughts, share news, post comments etc. We do not publish news.

So... is this illustrious group saying that our membership, from all over the world and all ends of the political spectrum are Russian agents?

I now understand fully the desire of this group to remain anonymous. Being laughed at in public would probably be unpleasant.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

In a world where just merely supporting a candidate is considered a racist act, there is no such thing as social justice. Just madness.

originally posted by: Djarums

So... is this illustrious group saying that our membership, from all over the world and all ends of the political spectrum are Russian agents?

***UPDATE***

We have also removed some outlets from the list based on their constructive conversations with us, and we are adding others which are directly foreign-run.

www.propornot.com...

We strongly believe in the First Amendment rights to freedom of expression and freedom of the press. Diverse and independent media are vital to the health of free society. Non-profit and commercial, alternative and mainstream - all are critical to our democracy. Americans have the right to echo, repeat, be used by, and refer their audiences to Russian official and semi-official state media, including “fake news” propaganda - just as we have the right to analyze and highlight that, without fear or favor. This list was never intended to be “black”. This is NOT a list of “paid” or “knowing” propaganda sources. It is NOT an attempt to censor, blacklist, or tar anyone.

www.propornot.com...

But most importantly...ATS is no longer on that list
www.propornot.com...

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

See above.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


What I see is a country that's been fighting to define terms, political correctness - and identity

There is plenty of blame to go around. I'm waiting to see is who is willing to stand up and say what needs to be said in both camps. This is about personal and cultural integrity

But, not the point of this thread...

So - I'm out :-)

a reply to: Indigo5

Wonderful.

So they are keeping a list of naughty and nice. And, based on dialogue, can remove you from the list.

LOL. At least its easier to get off of than the no fly list.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5

Wonderful.

So they are keeping a list of naughty and nice. And, based on dialogue, can remove you from the list.

LOL. At least its easier to get off of than the no fly list.

The website you linked to above on this page was also removed from the list.

Distinguishing between alternative news and state sponsored propaganda will take some practice since Russian Prop teams use alternative news as their vehicle....but it is worth trying. They are obviously receptive to correcting errors.
Deny Ignorance.

a reply to: Indigo5

So now they're going with the incompetence spin? How amusing, that's another reason to remain anonymous. Like a bunch of 4th graders - voice accusations, don't provide any evidence and back off the moment someone speaks out. Cowards and their blame game, but what the heck do I know anyway.

a reply to: Indigo5

State sponsored propaganda takes on many forms.

originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: Riffrafter

The reporter asked me if we were pursuing legal action or considering joining in a group legal action against WaPo.

I don't blame you one iota for keeping all of your options on the table.

I'm sure almost all other members would also agree.

If thru their actions it hurts you financially, I'd go after them. This is your business, your livelihood, it's how you support yourselves and your families. Don't let anyone unjustly mess with that to score some elusive "political capital".

Give 'em hell!!

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5

State sponsored propaganda takes on many forms.

Already read your article (thanks for the link)...and addressed it in a post above.

Operation Mockingbird, albeit not suprising for a cold war CIA, was an interesting read..I also researched it's history apart from your link.

Wapo is not CIA prop...Time, National Geographic, ABC, CBS et al. had journalists working with the CIA under Operation Mockingbird principally in the 1940's and 1950's and Philip Graham of Wapo who was tapped by the CIA died in 1963...and once the Churchill hearings in congress revealed the OP in 1976, Bush Sr. banned the practice.

To infer that Wapo in 2016 after multiple ownership changes over a half century and virtually none of its editorial staff having been born yet when Mockingbird (now banned by congress) was in practice seems a rather dishonest slight of hand.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Indigo5

So now they're going with the incompetence spin? How amusing, that's another reason to remain anonymous.

I'll be blunt because directing people to actually read seems to be failing.

From the start they were VERY CLEAR that the criteria to be included the list did not include INTENT and they explained that qualifier.

That means sites that Propagate, Re-Publish or Echo FAKE Propaganda and FAKE NEWS were included regardless of whether they were pro-actively looking to echo Russian Government Sponsored Propaganda.

That definition INDISPUTABLY would include ATS.

Where they failed was in curating the list to exclude open forums and non-bias sites that invite opposing views and critical thinking to examine or debunk those stories.

Put another way...By their first definition...sites like SNOPES would qualify...cuz they republish propaganda...if only to debunk it.

They responded quickly to ATS and other sites complaints and they responded correctly...This cannot be said about a tonnage of other forums where contrary views are regularly edited out of the comments stream.

They are right to remain anonymous...If you do not think there are dangerous forces behind the flood of propaganda right now, you are not paying attention.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Djarums

So... is this illustrious group saying that our membership, from all over the world and all ends of the political spectrum are Russian agents?

***UPDATE***

We have also removed some outlets from the list based on their constructive conversations with us, and we are adding others which are directly foreign-run.

www.propornot.com...

We strongly believe in the First Amendment rights to freedom of expression and freedom of the press. Diverse and independent media are vital to the health of free society. Non-profit and commercial, alternative and mainstream - all are critical to our democracy. Americans have the right to echo, repeat, be used by, and refer their audiences to Russian official and semi-official state media, including “fake news” propaganda - just as we have the right to analyze and highlight that, without fear or favor. This list was never intended to be “black”. This is NOT a list of “paid” or “knowing” propaganda sources. It is NOT an attempt to censor, blacklist, or tar anyone.

www.propornot.com...

But most importantly...ATS is no longer on that list
www.propornot.com...

Don't you suppose Springer's conversation with WaPo had everything to do with ATS being removed from the list? It seems obvious to me, but I went to community college, so what do I know?

originally posted by: ezramullins

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Djarums

So... is this illustrious group saying that our membership, from all over the world and all ends of the political spectrum are Russian agents?

***UPDATE***

We have also removed some outlets from the list based on their constructive conversations with us, and we are adding others which are directly foreign-run.

www.propornot.com...

We strongly believe in the First Amendment rights to freedom of expression and freedom of the press. Diverse and independent media are vital to the health of free society. Non-profit and commercial, alternative and mainstream - all are critical to our democracy. Americans have the right to echo, repeat, be used by, and refer their audiences to Russian official and semi-official state media, including “fake news” propaganda - just as we have the right to analyze and highlight that, without fear or favor. This list was never intended to be “black”. This is NOT a list of “paid” or “knowing” propaganda sources. It is NOT an attempt to censor, blacklist, or tar anyone.

www.propornot.com...

But most importantly...ATS is no longer on that list
www.propornot.com...

Don't you suppose Springer's conversation with WaPo had everything to do with ATS being removed from the list? It seems obvious to me, but I went to community college, so what do I know?

Of course?...Why would you think my post which opened with this citation suggested otherwise?

We have also removed some outlets from the list based on their constructive conversations with us, and we are adding others which are directly foreign-run.

a reply to: UKTruth

Quite obvious really. If a narrative gets hold that the 'list' is a real representation of fake news then traffic could decline, advertising revenues could fall, the sustainability of the site could become untenable. All website 101 type stuff, really.

Got it. I guess we won the war, then. Well done.

www.abovetopsecret.com...