originally posted by: Unresponsible
Man I love your threads. Now that's out of the way, and prefacing by saying that I agree with your point, the next question becomes "what is
I do feel some sympathy for materialist thinkers, seeing as science isn't quite at the point of understanding the actual nature of consciousness yet
and the only other way to come to grips with the essence of the human condition is via mystical/religious practice, which materialists tend to have it
in for right off the bat!
So it's a limbo between not enough information/information perceived to be tainted, I'd imagine that many just throw their arms in the air and assume
nonexistence of spirit as a matter of recourse.
My personal view, for what it's worth is that spirit and soul both transcend the pop-culture "little ghost in your head that drives you and goes to
heaven when you die" metaphor (although this is a fine shorthand explanation) and seeps deeply into a pattern of existence that is largely
undiscovered and unimagined. We see glimpses of this in the traditions of various religious and mystery schools, but even those are painted heavily in
the archetypes and artistic temperament of the experiencers.
All of humanity is on equal footing with regard to The Other; perhaps science will finally make a paradigm shift that will begin to understand this
part of life; holographic theories and simulated reality theories are certainly implying headway into this direction. How this will shape daily life
and the perception of the "normal" in the future is a fun but frustrating exercise in imagination.
Thanks for your reply.
I think a lot of this goes back to dualism and René Descartes. The separation of spirit and the material vs. Alchemy which didn't separate the two. I
agree with Alchemy and nondualism.
Alchemy basically said you can turn base materials like lead into more noble ones like gold but this was just the outward meaning of Alchemy. It was
about the transformation of the soul as well and you can be transformed from a base human to a god among men.
I think materialist just said they don't need the spirit or the soul just the material. This was also due to the abuses of the Catholic Church when it
comes to scientific thought.
I do think Descartes was right though when he talked about an immaterial non local aspect of mind.
During the Modern era, philosophers such as Descartes and Locke developed the notions of material substance and immaterial substance. Material
substance, or matter, was primarily defined as being extended and spatially located. Descartes, and other thinkers, also took the view that material
substance could not think. Immaterial substance was taken to lack extension and to not possess a spatial location. Most importantly, immaterial
substance was regarded as having thought as its defining attribute. While these philosophers are long dead, the influence of their concepts lives on
in philosophy and science.
When you look at the quantum level, it's non local and there's no space or time. This is why you have things like retrocausality when looking at
entanglement in time. Something that happens that we perceive as coming first can actually happen second on a quantum level. So it goes to what
Einstein said. The distinctions between past, present and future are just a persistent illusion.
With this being the case and because local realism is dead, on a fundamental level of reality, consciousness can occur before the big bang and there's
no this happened first or this happened second. We only separate these things in our classical perception of what we perceive as "reality."
So in my estimation, Alchemy is correct in the sense of nondualism. To me, spirit and the material are like Yin and Yang with spirit being dominate
because of thought.
This gets even deeper when you look at what's going on today from people like Susskind and Maldacena. The universe is starting to look like a
construct of quantum information on a 2D boundary. So the universe is a quantum computer.
On the boundary, there's entanglement and this entanglement is quantum error correcting codes! When you want to protect say 1 logical qubit you have
to encode it and spread it out amongst 9 entangled physical qubits. This protects quantum information from noise and decoherence.
What's truly amazing is that these quantum error correcting codes are on the 2D boundary and these codes have an equivelency to the geometry of
spacetime! So what we call 3D spacetime is just a projection of 2D quantum error correcting codes. Here's 2 good talks by John Preskill.
Is Spacetime a quantum error correcting code?
Holographic Quantum Codes
It goes even deeper when you look at theories of Quantum Consciousness by Penrose, Hameroff, Fisher and others which connects consciousness to quantum
information. 3D spacetime could be the projection of entanglement(quantum error correcting codes) and consciousness could be the projection of the
quantum information that's encoded on entanglement.
edit on 26-11-2016 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)
I wonder if our philosophies concerning the nature of existence are the same as our hypothetical creators; is it a function of the universe as we
understand it (pixels on a 2D screen) or are these problems that they (He?) also speculates on in the hyperreality.
Perhaps we really are here to express the mind of God.
Or are we ants in an ant farm who imagine that God is also a much bigger ant in a much bigger ant farm; there's no reason to assume one way or another
that I can tell.
This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.