It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Help ATS via PayPal:
learn more

My mom was just Euthanized and I pulled the trigger.

page: 3
60
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 22 2016 @ 07:22 PM
link   
Omg! I am so sorry.. I am sending prayers for you both. I hope she can get better and be herself again.
When my brother in law was in the hospital an elderly patient near him had been given this same drug and was in a catatonic state.. the family were grieving and blaming themselves too.. what's wrong with these da%n doctors!!? just awful.. I'm so sorry, sending cyber [[hugs]]




posted on Nov, 22 2016 @ 07:33 PM
link   
Soo sorry to hear. I know first hand having a parent in a similar situation(though,it wasn't dementia but a brain injury(murder). And I blamed myself for years due to following along with what the Drs. suggested. Blaming yourself takes a giant toll on your health. At this point and even after you need to be strong for her. It seems you may want to contact a legal source and or a second opinion on the use of that drug.
edit on 22-11-2016 by dreamingawake because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2016 @ 08:12 PM
link   
Really sorry to hear, it's always sad when someone close dies and please don't blame yourself.

Sounds like a very messed up drug and needs more research done to determine how safe or unsafe it is.



posted on Nov, 23 2016 @ 12:35 AM
link   
I honestly feel so sorry for your pain. I've been through this same thing with my dad.

Worse, I don't know what all drugs they had him on before he passed, but there were a lot. It completely changed his personality and being. He was a zombie. He had the beginnings of dementia when it all started, but in the end they pretty much medicated him to death. Miraculously, I managed to show up from halfway across the country on the night he passed, and I got to hold his hand and tell him how much I loved him. Less than 6 hours later Mom called me and told me she'd just received a call that he'd passed. I'd just showed up to visit, but when I got there he was pretty much comatose. The previous time I'd been there to visit they were giving him drugs like nobody's business. At one point I asked what they were giving him, and one of the nurses described the symptoms, but not the actual drugs.

My eldest sister had been acting as the executor, as she is much closer than I am. They said "bi-polar, anti-depressant, mood stabilization" drugs, and some "other" things. He was a freaking zombie!! It was terrible and shameful...they took away every single bit of that man's dignity. And he was a hero too, a WWII hero. They had reduced him to a mumbling vegetable. It was horrible!

He died on his 90th birthday. May 19th.

They said he could be "combative", but I never saw that. They said he would "argue", but I never saw that either. Granted, I wasn't around every day, but I lived with him for nearly 20 years and never saw any of that. Yes, people can change, but no one I talked to could support these descriptions of his behavior. He called me once (he actually called quite a bit) and said he felt like he was in "a prison". He said the more he spoke out, the more they medicated him. It was heart wrenching. This, from a guy who flew missions in 1945 to rescue prisoners from Nazi prison camps in Poland.

I sincerely feel for you and wish you the best.

I'm a smart guy, but I don't know how to stop some of the things we see with the treatment of the elderly. I honestly don't. I feel like my dad's care was wrong, and they just felt like he was a nuisance...best be gone. And so it was.

God Bless you!....and you're Mom!



posted on Nov, 23 2016 @ 12:57 AM
link   
I found out in May the nursing home where my mom was being held had lost my sister's contact info and Mom died so they cremated her.
Having worked in a death facility before I know the callous hands.
I was estranged from her because we REALLY didn't get along.



posted on Nov, 23 2016 @ 02:50 PM
link   
a reply to: misskat1

St. John's Wort will take care of the poison in a couple of days. It promotes drug-metabolizing enzymes. Remember you want to keep the dose low.

There is plenty of herbs that can be helpfull to calm down and restore clarity at the same time. However I won't give you any other advice if you don't ask me.



posted on Nov, 23 2016 @ 05:39 PM
link   
a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

Thank you she is actually a little more coherent today, so I think the medication is leaving her system. She also ate a whole persimmon, and a few other things. so she might regain some of her function ability.

Im an herb person too, so I have kept her meds down to a minimum. I never would have let her take that if I wasnt being coerced by the daycare nurse.

I spoke to her doctor and told him that he gave her medication that is blacked boxed for dementia patients and it has all but killed her, and all he would say, is "now that she is dying do you want Hospice"? Never admitted guilt or said he was sorry. Im sure these Drs are told to euthanize "useless eaters".

The thing is, my mom didnt speak to me for 35 yrs because of her Jehovah Witness religion. Ive had her a year, and I just wasnt ready to give her up yet.


edit on 23-11-2016 by misskat1 because: Took out the name of the faculity



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 06:59 AM
link   
a reply to: rickymousesorry about what was done by these people to your mom. i have seen medicare do similar things in my area to elderly patients. my landlord was 78 and he had a 60 percent blockage in his neck they put him on morphine and sent him home to die they told us to give him his meds every few hours till he passed it took 2 years before he finally died nut during that time his 60 year old daughter had both arteries in her neck 90 percent blocked and guess what they gave her surgery on one side and then the other. he asked his doctor if he could have procedure to they said sure but medicare would not cover it so he either had to get supplemental insurance or pay out of pocket. he died several months later from the morphine. he was physically active till he was put on morphine and hospice care but it took 2 years for him to die knowing he could have been treated but his gov and medicare that he payed for so many years just sent him home to die.i hope and pray your mom recovers and comes back to her regular self



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 07:45 AM
link   
a reply to: misskat1

It's horrible that industries exist that make money from suffering this is just more proof that our species has fallen from the path of light

I hope your mother doesnt suffer , and that you dont let her suffering burden you , you have done what you thought would be the least painful way for your mother to live out her remaining time.

Forgive yourself and realise that it wasnt you who done this to your mother , it was a really corrupt system of healthcare.

Aww the best to you and yours



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 07:46 AM
link   

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: rickymousesorry about what was done by these people to your mom. i have seen medicare do similar things in my area to elderly patients. my landlord was 78 and he had a 60 percent blockage in his neck they put him on morphine and sent him home to die they told us to give him his meds every few hours till he passed it took 2 years before he finally died nut during that time his 60 year old daughter had both arteries in her neck 90 percent blocked and guess what they gave her surgery on one side and then the other. he asked his doctor if he could have procedure to they said sure but medicare would not cover it so he either had to get supplemental insurance or pay out of pocket. he died several months later from the morphine. he was physically active till he was put on morphine and hospice care but it took 2 years for him to die knowing he could have been treated but his gov and medicare that he payed for so many years just sent him home to die.i hope and pray your mom recovers and comes back to her regular self



The doctors told my stepfather he had six months top to live back in 1976. He was disabled a bit but died in 2000. He lived with my mother and hated being in nursing homes or hospitals.

If he would have taken all the meds the doctors would have wanted him to take he would have never lived twenty two years. He actually gave up and figured why bother taking the meds he had been taking and he got somewhat better right after finding out he was doomed. Sure he still had some problems but the meds were making him worse. Now you can't use his case to judge whether others would benefit from stopping their medicines, but the side effects from the medicines he was on in his case would have killed him. He resisted taking the meds the doctors kept telling him he needed, he did still use the oxygen and when needed he did take short term meds like antibiotics and stuff. In his last five years he did need some meds but wouldn't take the ones that negatively effected him too much..



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 07:58 AM
link   
I am sorry about your mom



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 08:00 AM
link   
a reply to: misskat1
The doctors should have told you. It's their fault, not yours.



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 08:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: misskat1
Dementia patients are being systematically euthanized by nursing homes.


Ridiculous on the face of it. They make money per head. No patients, no money. So they have no incentive whatever to kill off their patients.

SHOULD demented patients be euthanized, that's another question. End of life care is the bulk of medical expenditure in the US. You could question whether it's a reasonable one. But at the moment, demented patients are NOT euthanized, as such. If a demented patient has their care withdrawn and subsequently passes, you could argue it, I suppose. I did so on my own father a couple of years ago. He had very sudden, very devastating dementia. Mom couldn't handle him because he was large, strong and eventually both aggressive and wandery, and prone to let himself out of the house by force. That couldn't stand. So we put him in the VA. It got to the point, and pretty quickly, that he forgot to pee, got urosepsis, and DIC. He then threw enough clots to have a stroke, occlude the circulation in one leg and have an MI in about two hours span, in addition to losing both kidneys. I couldn't see him going on without knowing who or where he was, a leg cut off, bedbound, and on dialysis. It would have been torture if he was with it, and as he wasn't, and no one else would pick up the ball, I made the decision to withdraw care, and with no kidney function, he passed about two weeks later of hyperkalemia.

I suppose you could call that euthanasia, and I will proudly carry the responsibility of doing it. But the VA would have kept him alive until he just wouldn't go anymore. At your expense. And his.



My mom has dementia, and I put her into daycare. I was told she was combative and had to be put on antipsychotic medication or she wouldnt be able to go. So, I put her on resperiDONE. The first letters are lower case, and DONE is in capital letters.


A senseless quibble. The capitalization is what's known as "TALL man lettering", it's to assist nurses in not confusing risperdone with ropirinol or risperdal or some such. Most meds, if not all, have "TALL man lettering" equivalents, many meds have another one with a somewhat similar name. Studies show that "TALL man" lettering helps keep them separated in the minds of nurses giving them out, personally I doubt it. But if you're trying to say that "DONE" somehow means it's a euthanasia drug because of DONE, you're barking up the wrong tree.

The actual name is risperdone. On the bottle, there's one place that says risperDONE. On the risperdal bottle, is says risperDAL. Perhaps DAL means something to you. But in truth, it's just a way to keep from mixing up meds that are similarly named.



After about a week on it, my mom stopped running, stopped talking, and became real quite she didnt even want to get out of bed etc. I took her off the meds but the damage is done. She is ninety yrs old, so it can be argued that it was time. But, I just knew there was a medication connection, so I googled "resperiDONE killing dementia patients". OMG, they really really are killing these people.


Not so much. Risperdone is a major antipsychotic. It's got a lot of side effects. And among them is that it makes you drooly and stupid and you sit there and stare at the walls. The way it 'kills old people' is generally that they fall. Because it makes them slow, clumsy, dizzy and even worse off than they are. It also causes heart attacks in demented people, how they're not sure. But it's not poison, mainly it makes them even worse off in terms of balance and they fall and bash their heads.

You could question whether major antipsychotics are EVER appropriate for dementia. And it's why risperdone got a black box warning. It's way too strong. Old people don't clear it from their systems very quickly because their kidneys and livers aren't up to it. So they sink into a daze and either do nothing, or try to get up and fall, or their hearts give out on it. It's much the same with other antipsychotics or antidepressants given to the elderly. Geodon, Haldol, Trazodone, Thorazine and the like cause the same sorts of issues.

Doctors are in a sort of bind. As you become demented, you generally exhibit a number of pretty stock behaviors - depression, irritability, anxiety, hallucinations, aggression, agitation, hostility and the like. You can let your loved one lie there and shriek all day, or cry all day, or refuse to eat, bathe, toilet and whatnot, or you can try and treat it. But most demented people are elderly. And the meds that work on those behaviors are fairly aggressive and are tough on people whose hearts, kidneys and livers aren't up to it. And the elderly don't regulate their neurotransmitters very well, so even benign medications like benadryl and reglan are no longer safe. So, do you treat it, and hope they don't misreact to the drug, or do you ignore it, and let them die because the only way to get them to eat, or stop poking their nails in the nurses' eyes is to give them something that curtails that behavior, but causes falls and heart attacks?



I feel like the medical industry, [name removed] daycare and even her Doctor. conspired to put a lethal dose of certain death in my hand and made me pull the trigger.


It's hardly "a lethal dose of certain death". More than a bit dramatic. Would it be better if she didn't eat? Couldn't be kept clean? Were charged with assault on the caretakers? It's a crappy thing, but demented old people are demented, and old. They're fragile and unmanageable. There's no kind, gentle, harm free way to force them to do things, physically. Even when those things are things that need doing. No matter what you'd want to have happen at the end, it's going to get down to choices you'd rather not have to make, but which can't be ignored.



I know she is very old and its OK if she passes, but not like this, not by my hand. Its just wrong on so many levels.


I hate to break it to you, but unless you have other family you can shove it onto, this choice likely awaits you down the road.

Death is part of living. And everyone gets there. Medical science has made it possible for you often to not die until your family has to choose for you to. So it's both good, and bad.



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 08:29 AM
link   

originally posted by: misskat1
Dementia patients are being systematically euthanized by nursing homes. My mom has dementia, and I put her into daycare. I was told she was combative and had to be put on antipsychotic medication or she wouldnt be able to go. So, I put her on resperiDONE. The first letters are lower case, and DONE is in capital letters. After about a week on it, my mom stopped running, stopped talking, and became real quite she didnt even want to get out of bed etc. I took her off the meds but the damage is done. She is ninety yrs old, so it can be argued that it was time. But, I just knew there was a medication connection, so I googled "resperiDONE killing dementia patients". OMG, they really really are killing these people.

It is estimated that 64,000 elderly alz and dementia patients are killed a yr on this medication. There is a "Black Box Warning" that it can not be given to dementia or Alz patients. I am sick all over. I feel like the medical industry, [name removed] daycare and even her Doctor. conspired to put a lethal dose of certain death in my hand and made me pull the trigger.

I dont know how to make the public aware. But, I dont feel good that I gave her these meds, and would like to spare anyone else this horrid gut ache I have right now. Mom is still breathing, we are squirting water and broth with a syring down her. Just a few days ago she ate, 2 eggs, 2 pieces of toast, a whole banana and 2 glasses of milk without anyone helping. Now she cant even sit up. This medication has all but killed her. I know she is very old and its OK if she passes, but not like this, not by my hand. Its just wrong on so many levels.

Below are a few links.

www.alzconnected.org... www.drugwatch.com... america.aljazeera.com...


Every professional along the chain of care down to the nurse, or aide, that put that medication in her mouth has responsibility. Each one is the gatekeeper of "do no harm". You are essentially the patient, as well, by association. You have been harmed as well, you did not do the harm.

Definately seek legal advice. Each of those responsible NEED to be put to task. It's unfortunate, but this is sometimes how they learn from their "practice." They need to be held accountable.

I'm so sorry they failed you and your mother. I had a very similar experience. Even good doctors, nurses and aides make very bad mistakes and have to face the consequences.
edit on 11/24/1616 by NoAngel2u because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 08:33 AM
link   
a reply to: Bedlam

The indications for that medication state very clearly "This medicine should not be used to treat behavioral problems in older adults who have dementia."



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 08:43 AM
link   
From the Alzheimers' Association:



Medication examples

Some medications commonly used to treat behavioral and psychiatric symptoms of Alzheimer's disease, listed in alphabetical order by generic name, include the following:

Antidepressants for low mood and irritability:

citalopram (Celexa)
fluoxetine (Prozac)
paroxeine (Paxil)
sertraline (Zoloft)
trazodone (Desyrel)

Anxiolytics for anxiety, restlessness, verbally disruptive behavior and resistance:

lorazepam (Ativan)
oxazepam (Serax)

Antipsychotic medications for hallucinations, delusions, aggression, agitation, hostility and uncooperativeness:

aripiprazole (Abilify)
clozapine (Clozaril)
haloperidol (Haldol)
olanzapine (Zyprexa)
quetiapine (Seroquel)
risperidone (Risperdal)
ziprasidone (Geodon)



Antipsychotic Medications

The decision to use an antipsychotic drug needs to be considered with extreme caution. Research has shown that these drugs are associated with an increased risk of stroke and death in older adults with dementia. The FDA has ordered manufacturers to label such drugs with a “black box” warning about their risks and a reminder that they are not approved to treat dementia symptoms.

Learn more: FDA's Safety Alert About Antipsychotics

Based on scientific evidence, as well as governmental warnings and guidance from care oversight bodies, individuals with dementia should use antipsychotic medications only under one of the following conditions:

Behavioral symptoms are due to mania or psychosis
The symptoms present a danger to the person or others
The person is experiencing inconsolable or persistent distress, a significant decline in function or substantial difficulty receiving needed care

Antipsychotic medications should not be used to sedate or restrain persons with dementia. The minimum dosage should be used for the minimum amount of time possible. Adverse side effects require careful monitoring.


The issue is, these people are often elderly, so they're physically fragile, and neurologically compromised, and can't be restrained or assisted by force without chance of injury. But they act out, or are unmanageable, and you can't let them do that, but you can't treat it safely either.

It would be nice if you could just give them a Dammitol patch or something and they'd be euphorically happy, or you could fix the dementia. You can't. So it's a tossup as to whether you let them continue with self-injurious behavior or you try and medicate them knowing it will either sedate them, maybe make them worse or cause them to fall, stroke out or have a heart attack.

Is it, in fact, better to tie them down, jam a tube in their noses and force nutrition on them? Or try a medication that might not be safe? Or put in a peg tube, a trach and put mittens on so they can't pull it out? Let them cry all the time?

The end of life sucks. If I start down that path, I'm going to deal with it before my family has to. But there's mostly no happy happy end with people doing song or dance routines and smiling as they go out with nice coherent last words and a sigh as their eyes close. These days, they can keep you alive so long that the end is undignified and stressful for everyone.



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 08:44 AM
link   

originally posted by: NoAngel2u
a reply to: Bedlam

The indications for that medication state very clearly "This medicine should not be used to treat behavioral problems in older adults who have dementia."


And per the Alzheimer's Association:

Based on scientific evidence, as well as governmental warnings and guidance from care oversight bodies, individuals with dementia should use antipsychotic medications only under one of the following conditions:

Behavioral symptoms are due to mania or psychosis
The symptoms present a danger to the person or others
The person is experiencing inconsolable or persistent distress, a significant decline in function or substantial difficulty receiving needed care

Black box warnings are that - warnings. Otherwise every black box medication would be banned. Doctors don't hand them out for these conditions without some sort of cause, because it's very easy to sue them in such cases.

Another issue, and one that Pop had, is that they get up out of their wheelchairs and try to run. Many, many times a day. Only Pop didn't have any balance, so he fell. And broke things. Repeatedly. You can't stand there every second and say 'no no no back in the chair no no no', because eventually they're going to make it up and fall. And a lot of places refuse to restrain. So another issue is - do you tie them down, let them fall, or give them something to curtail the impulse to run?


edit on 24-11-2016 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 08:48 AM
link   
a reply to: Bedlam

It states very clearly "should NOT be used." In my never humble opion, even if the dr wanted to use that medication against the indications, then the family should have been consulted and INFORMED it would be used against industry indications.



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 08:55 AM
link   

originally posted by: NoAngel2u
a reply to: Bedlam

It states very clearly "should NOT be used." In my never humble opion, even if the dr wanted to use that medication against the indications, then the family should have been consulted and INFORMED it would be used against industry indications.


I agree that the family should be compelled to make the decision. Your loved one may refuse to eat, bathe, urinate etc, may get up and fall. May cry unconsolably 24/7, may scream, injure themselves, or attempt to injure others. Do you want us to:

1) restrain them physically and force them physically to eat and do other ADLs
2) let them go until they pass from malnutrition and skin breakdown
3) wait until they assault staff and have them imprisoned
4) give them a medication that will undoubtedly have side effects, some of which may be unattractive
5) let them fall until they get a head bleed or break a hip

There aren't a lot of really great choices for the elderly demented. Some people are very sweet and manageable. Most aren't. It's not a simple thing. There are no safe meds for elderly demented people. It can't be fixed. It won't get better. I wish there were a more Pollyanna way of looking at it, but there's not.

You get over 70, even Benedryl or Pepcid can make you uncontrollable, cause hallucinations, falls, increase your dementia. Geriatric medicine is complex, and often pointless.
edit on 24-11-2016 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2016 @ 09:05 AM
link   

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: NoAngel2u
a reply to: Bedlam

It states very clearly "should NOT be used." In my never humble opion, even if the dr wanted to use that medication against the indications, then the family should have been consulted and INFORMED it would be used against industry indications.


I agree that the family should be compelled to make the decision. Your loved one may refuse to eat, bathe, urinate etc, may get up and fall. May cry unconsolably 24/7, may scream, injure themselves, or attempt to injure others. Do you want us to:

1) restrain them physically and force them physically to eat and do other ADLs
2) let them go until they pass from malnutrition and skin breakdown
3) wait until they assault staff and have them imprisoned
4) give them a medication that will undoubtedly have side effects, some of which may be unattractive
5) let them fall until they get a head bleed or break a hip

There aren't a lot of really great choices for the elderly demented. Some people are very sweet and manageable. Most aren't. It's not a simple thing. There are no safe meds for elderly demented people. It can't be fixed. It won't get better. I wish there were a more Pollyanna way of looking at it, but there's not.

In my experience, most are sweet and manageable and only a few aren't and yes, unfortunately, that should have been the conversation as well as the drug options and benefits vs risk. Also, a very thorough look at the patients environment and staff. It's quite possible staff handling aggravates behaviors. Just because they've been hired and put in charge of your parent, does not mean they know what they are doing when dealing with their behaviors and can quite often be the source of behavior problems.




top topics



 
60
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join