The leftwing democrats tried to steal the vote away from Bush by slicing tires of GOP vans used to get out the vote----by intimidation of GOP voters in heavily Democrat areas----by fraudulently voting in more than one precinct, and buying votes in the inner cities with cartons of cigarettes, beer and contraband.

The leftwing radicals in Iraq are doing their best to stop free elections in Iraq also, by killing voters.

Ah, the left, what would the world be without them?

Originally posted by sleeper
The leftwing radicals in Iraq are doing their best to stop free elections in Iraq also, by killing voters.

The Fundamental Muslim Insurgents are lefties now?

Go back to sleep, sleeper.

They have always been lefties----go read your history books and news articles about Moslems.

Fundamentalist have few if any freedoms-----all leftwing countries have few if any freedoms.

Unlike many of your brethren abroad you are free to know that by doing research, or you can continue ignoring the facts to suit your leftwing ideology.

Personally i think you are createing these types of threads to start an arguement and just promote that the "left is evil".
Who do you work for?
You sound like someone working for Joseph Goebbels....you arent one of his pupils are you?

Ah, okay. So lack of freedom = leftie.

And the Evangelical Republican Party's own brand of moral authoritarianism is what now?

Freedom?

If you care, there's a difference in economic ideologies and authoritarian ideologies.

Once may be a "leftie" in the US on economics, which is far to the right of what normal people (not you) would consider socialist or communist, but still be civil libertarian. Which is where the "freedom" comes in.

In fact, it's the most common uniting factor of Democrats these days from the far left to moderate/conservatives. (Small l) libertariansim.

The modern right in the US is far more akin to the moral authoritarian religious fundamentalist insurgents you speak of. Not "lefties."

And as I fail to see how economics has anything to do with it I'd wager the measure of authoritarianism is the most relevant.

You're fighting Iraq's right, not left. The "left" would be pro-US as the scale goes.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Personally i think you are createing these types of threads to start an arguement and just promote that the "left is evil".
Who do you work for?
You sound like someone working for Joseph Goebbels....you arent one of his pupils are you?

I work for mankind,

Because I believe that the working class deserve better than to be treated the way they are by the leftwing countries.

The workers should have freedom to work where they wish and when they wish.

The workers should never have to live in poverty.

The workers should be treated with dignity and respect.

The left talks all those things while disallowing them to the workers.

Talk is cheap.

Human dignity, freedom and prosperity are not cheap.

It is time that people get off their butts and point the finger at the culprit of all human misery----the wolf in sheep’s clothing-----the leftwing.

Originally posted by RANT
Ah, okay. So lack of freedom = leftie.

And the Evangelical Republican Party's own brand of moral authoritarianism is what now?

Freedom?

If you care, there's a difference in economic ideologies and authoritarian ideolog

The left is closer to Evangelical Republicans than I am.

There is little difference between the far right (evangelical or otherwise) and the left----the major difference is one believes in god, guns and no abortion----the other believes in anarchy, the welfare state, atheism and hates Capitalism.

I don’t know what the heck I am but I don’t believe in either of those philosophies.

I believe in freedom and prosperity for all.

So far Capitalism has been the only (ism) able to deliver it.

.....Believe what you want sleeper, i know what is true in my heart and eyes, you can twist the truth, tell your half truths and sometimes out right lies.
The truth will always shine through, no matter what you make it out to be.
The left stives for freedom, the freedom for free health and the freedom to bear arms.
The freedom to go where we whish, to go where there are no "countries" and no "borders and lines" that is the goal of the left not to enslave the population as you would have us believe.

May what ever god,dietey or thing you believe in forgive you for spreading these half lies and half truths.

Freedoms sword will strongly draw and the shield of truth will never be broken.

DW out....

....than to open your mouth & remove all doubt.

Sleeper......just go enlist, K?

Originally posted by Bout Time
....than to open your mouth & remove all doubt.

Sleeper......just go enlist, K?

If wishing freedom and prosperity for all is foolish----sobeit, I'm the fool.

You lefties go on living in poverty and hating the hand (Capitalism) that feeds and frees the vast majority who embrace it.

I already did my time in the army, thank you.

sleeper why bother posting such crap?
If you want to start a debate about the merits of Capitalism thats fine I might even agree with you if you present some FACTS .
As for the left being evil lets not forgot the consertive right has been against progresse thou out history enough said.

Originally posted by sleeper

Ah, the left, what would the world be without them?

Unable to tie shoelaces, to read or write, to support the defenceless or to distinguish the logical and reasonable from the inane and trolling at ATS.

Originally posted by sleeper
The left is closer to Evangelical Republicans than I am.

There is little difference between the far right (evangelical or otherwise) and the left----the major difference is one believes in god, guns and no abortion----the other believes in anarchy, the welfare state, atheism and hates Capitalism.

I don’t know what the heck I am but I don’t believe in either of those philosophies.

I believe in freedom and prosperity for all.

So far Capitalism has been the only (ism) able to deliver it.

Well, since you've already denounced the modern Republican Party of the Bush Dynasty I'll spare you the speech on the history of the reactionary, regressive and often oppressive Republican Party. You've conceded that.

So you just hate "the left" but love capitalism?

Whatever. Do you hate America then? It's socio-capitalist. I'd call it a hybrid, but that's actually the norm as what non-dictatorship isn't partly socialist? In fact, the only purely capitalist society you'll find is in Science Fiction (Ferenginar ring any bells?)

This great experiment called America began as an ownership society in opposition to an own-all King, where "the people" own and rule. From it's inception then "the state" has maintained public works for "the people" to assist in even greater liberty and freedom than rule by the consolidation of wealth would allow.

The "left" then (many of whom I'd consider the founding father's to be) brought you public education, public roads, public airwaves, public defense, disease eradication and prevention, electrification, water, telecommunications, open stock exchanges and Federally secured banking.

What "freedoms" would you have otherwise? Paying tolls on "Donald Trump" highway to get to "Sam Walton Private High School" etc.

Do you really think the average Joe would stand a chance in pure capitalism? It's a moot argument anyway. There's no such thing.

You just baffle me. You hate the left (to which you owe all your freedoms as an American), AND the right (according to you).

All your premises and accusations are just so wrong and misguided. You think lefties are just as authoritarian as the right, but believe in anarchy? Do you even understand those words? Polar opposites.

And being "left" (using the American definition) and a capitalist are not mutually exclusive as I've demonstrated. Most "lefties" miss Clinton so bad because we never had it so good as the 90's stock market and employment and entrepreneurial opportunities. Talk about freedom; that was real freedom.

True freedom comes from freedom of opportunity. That means education, equal access, equal playing fields, i.e. - progressive measures.

Conservatives tend to be against that. Some would even call them regressive. Maintainance of status quo always. Protect the concentrations of wealth and increase the vertical power base. Limit access to the means. Members only. Inheritance and birth right over all. That's not freedom. It's not far off from having Royalty, which we overthrew one time already.

And that's just the fiscal implications. The new "right" uses the pretenses of morality and authoritarianism as wedge issues to achieve those goals. Democracies demand marketing. That's how they sell their dominance.

But you already said you hate them too, so you are what now (aside from confused)?

[edit on 27-1-2005 by RANT]

Ahhhhh, another sleeper-brand dose of premium bull.

Keep it coming mate, it's good entertainment.

By the by, did you ever actually go to school? Or did Fox News educate you? I ask because it has become increasingly clear to me that you are naught but a sheep.

Have a nice day...

Originally posted by RANT


But you already said you hate them too, so you are what now (aside from confused)?

[edit on 27-1-2005 by RANT]

I don't hate Bush nor do I hate Republicans-----I'm just not religious and don't have that hang-up.

I'm not for pure Capitalism because humans are incapable of it as we are with Marxism.

Socialism is like sheep in a field they do fine as long as there is grass to eat.

They don't create the grass they just eat it.

Capitalism is like the earth, it is the machine that makes the grass so that the sheep have something to eat.

What are the sheep without the grass?

I am confused----confused about leftwing logic.

Originally posted by sleeper
You lefties go on living in poverty and hating the hand (Capitalism) that feeds and frees the vast majority who embrace it.

I already did my time in the army, thank you.

I'm poor?
**** Pssst....go ask somebody! *****

I remember you saying something about coming over from Italy & that you're a teen? Was this the online military you were in?

Originally posted by Bout Time

I'm poor?
**** Pssst....go ask somebody! *****

I remember you saying something about coming over from Italy & that you're a teen? Was this the online military you were in?

I was a teen back in 1970 when I was in the US army.

Originally posted by devilwasp
You sound like someone working for Joseph Goebbels....you arent one of his pupils are you?

If he is he is not a very good pupil. Sleeper's brand of unconvincing propaganda doesn't wash nearly as well as Goebbels' did.