Hold On!!! Trump Video/Executive Order on Day/1/of Presidency to Withdraw US From TPP, Energy, Regul

a reply to: SaturnFX

People will groom him to what's appropriate for what circumstances. However, mistakes happen, JFK declared he was a doughnut in German, Reagan couldn't master "domo arigato" in Japan, and Bush puked all over some dignitaries with the flu at a formal dinner. Stuff happens, life goes on.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: SaturnFX
I'm sure he was briefed on proper etiquette, so he did it correctly? Was it intentional?

Obama went too low btw if you want to know. a 45 degree is what you do to a superior, and a long 45 degree (3 seconds) is a apologetic inferior. bowing is a thing..the POTUS is a world leader..he needs to know the formal and informal way to greet someone at the bare minimum.

I genuinely dont know. I can only assume he did it by mistake

This was absurd. the emperor is bowing properly, if perhaps slightly casual (perhaps a reaction to Obama going into full inferior bow).

Japanese prime minister is showing off a proper formal bow to peers.

This cartoon hits it perfectly as to the error here


But this is why I think he just wasnt coached properly maybe
he does eventually get it right


Its a tricky thing..sort of.
Obama wasn't really worldly before POTUS. he hit America, parts of Europe, and of course Africa, but the far east wasn't really his big stopping points before presidency.
Trump has been dealing with the asians for most of his life, so he should know the protocol...proper respectful bow, not too deep, nice 15 degree angle..handshake optional.

Its basically like asians learning to shake hands..you look in the eye, extend hand, up and down at least once. dont kiss hand if its not a female, if it is a female, its the under/over traditional...its odd, but these things do actually matter with perception. a whole article could be done on this.

originally posted by: Natas0114
a reply to: SaturnFX

People will groom him to what's appropriate for what circumstances.

I can only hope to, at least our allies, he gets the formalities proper. honor is important to them.

As far as China goes..pfft...he can go out there and moon them for all I care. they disrespected the office and nation enough. Same with the sauds. but Japan, NK, and other allies should be given respect.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Great points, thank you. By the way Obama looks like giant in the last pic.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: SaturnFX

Great points, thank you. By the way Obama looks like giant in the last pic.

Asians are very small. genetic thing.
A 6 foot westerner over in most asian lands is a bit like Gullivar's travel (arguably thats what the story was discussing).
One mistake westerners make is overcompensating on the bow due to height. unnecessary. the angle is the important thing, not being level. If a person is self conscious about such stuff, you can just be a step back and bow that way for more comfort in "aligning"...but westerners also like to shake hands, which is not necessary (its for our benefit. the asians dont really shake hands..bowing is shaking hands in their eyes)

Dont get me started on chopstick etiquette. now that can be a nightmare.how to properly pick up and put down in fancy settings, the do's and donts like dont point at people with chop sticks, dont stick chopsticks in rice as its super taboo, etc

But asians are forgiving..which is a bit condesending..they are forgiving because they just assume westerners are basically animals that dont know how to learn culture. heh...worse is when they complement you on the most basic of things "oh, you know how to use chopsticks so well..very well done"...
....go eff yourself. lol

a reply to: SaturnFX

Cool and complicated rules and people, thanks for the info

I like his last point of 'Lifetime Ban on Executive officials lobbying for a foreign government' . Damn shame officials need to be reminded of where their loyalties should lie.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: SaturnFX
I'm sure he was briefed on proper etiquette, so he did it correctly? Was it intentional?

Obama went too low btw if you want to know. a 45 degree is what you do to a superior, and a long 45 degree (3 seconds) is a apologetic inferior. bowing is a thing..the POTUS is a world leader..he needs to know the formal and informal way to greet someone at the bare minimum.

A lower bow culturally and historically was to show your trust and faith in the person you are bowing to - it's a sign that you have no fear that they are going to behead you. Shaking hands is showing trust and faith by having an empty sword hand.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: SaturnFX
I'm sure he was briefed on proper etiquette, so he did it correctly? Was it intentional?

Obama went too low btw if you want to know. a 45 degree is what you do to a superior, and a long 45 degree (3 seconds) is a apologetic inferior. bowing is a thing..the POTUS is a world leader..he needs to know the formal and informal way to greet someone at the bare minimum.

A lower bow culturally and historically was to show your trust and faith in the person you are bowing to - it's a sign that you have no fear that they are going to behead you. Shaking hands is showing trust and faith by having an empty sword hand.

Star. Makes total sense to me, "that sounds logical".

I don't care how he read it (it did sound robotic), the substance was nice to hear.

a reply to: SaturnFX

I wholeheartedly agree. Honor and respect are key to working relationships. If you can learn when to eat with a fork, when to use a spoon- you can learn to respect customs and traditions of your allies.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: SaturnFX
I'm sure he was briefed on proper etiquette, so he did it correctly? Was it intentional?

Obama went too low btw if you want to know. a 45 degree is what you do to a superior, and a long 45 degree (3 seconds) is a apologetic inferior. bowing is a thing..the POTUS is a world leader..he needs to know the formal and informal way to greet someone at the bare minimum.

A lower bow culturally and historically was to show your trust and faith in the person you are bowing to - it's a sign that you have no fear that they are going to behead you. Shaking hands is showing trust and faith by having an empty sword hand.

Incorrect in discussing Japan. there are certain bows reserved for station. bowing at a 15ish degree signifies peers, a deep bow signifies you are bowing to a superior, and a deeper bow than that and held for a few seconds is a bow of apology.

handshaking is a western thing that Asians will do to westerns. it is often then custom to turn a bit from each other so as to not bump heads when shaking and bowing because shaking hands requires someone to be close..too close for proper bowing face to face...but Asians will make consessions here.

But yeah, a low bow isn't what you said..you only go low to a superior (your boss, politician maybe, a elder, etc). Was the Emperor of Japan at a higher station than the POTUS...well, you can debate that I suppose. Personally..I don't believe that to be the case. The emperor is strictly token bloodline

originally posted by: Natas0114
a reply to: SaturnFX

I wholeheartedly agree. Honor and respect are key to working relationships. If you can learn when to eat with a fork, when to use a spoon- you can learn to respect customs and traditions of your allies.

meanwhile I took at look at what comment you were replying to and realized I accidentally said NK instead of SK...yes..we must show proper respect to north korea. lol.

respect for that fat little sh5t would be a swift kick to the little godling's junk

a reply to: SaturnFX

Sk/Nk -I didn't catch it till now either- lol. Yeah that spoiled brat needs rolled down a hill.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: SaturnFX
I'm sure he was briefed on proper etiquette, so he did it correctly? Was it intentional?

Obama went too low btw if you want to know. a 45 degree is what you do to a superior, and a long 45 degree (3 seconds) is a apologetic inferior. bowing is a thing..the POTUS is a world leader..he needs to know the formal and informal way to greet someone at the bare minimum.

A lower bow culturally and historically was to show your trust and faith in the person you are bowing to - it's a sign that you have no fear that they are going to behead you. Shaking hands is showing trust and faith by having an empty sword hand.

Incorrect in discussing Japan. there are certain bows reserved for station. bowing at a 15ish degree signifies peers, a deep bow signifies you are bowing to a superior, and a deeper bow than that and held for a few seconds is a bow of apology.

handshaking is a western thing that Asians will do to westerns. it is often then custom to turn a bit from each other so as to not bump heads when shaking and bowing because shaking hands requires someone to be close..too close for proper bowing face to face...but Asians will make consessions here.

But yeah, a low bow isn't what you said..you only go low to a superior (your boss, politician maybe, a elder, etc). Was the Emperor of Japan at a higher station than the POTUS...well, you can debate that I suppose. Personally..I don't believe that to be the case. The emperor is strictly token bloodline

Thanks for the info, and there maybe specifics about Japan, but bowing did indeed come about through showing trust in the person facing you. I used hand shaking not in relation to Asian/Western interaction, but that in shaking the persons hand (particularly if you initiate the hand shake) was originally a show of trust and faith.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: SaturnFX
I'm sure he was briefed on proper etiquette, so he did it correctly? Was it intentional?

Obama went too low btw if you want to know. a 45 degree is what you do to a superior, and a long 45 degree (3 seconds) is a apologetic inferior. bowing is a thing..the POTUS is a world leader..he needs to know the formal and informal way to greet someone at the bare minimum.

A lower bow culturally and historically was to show your trust and faith in the person you are bowing to - it's a sign that you have no fear that they are going to behead you. Shaking hands is showing trust and faith by having an empty sword hand.

Incorrect in discussing Japan. there are certain bows reserved for station. bowing at a 15ish degree signifies peers, a deep bow signifies you are bowing to a superior, and a deeper bow than that and held for a few seconds is a bow of apology.

handshaking is a western thing that Asians will do to westerns. it is often then custom to turn a bit from each other so as to not bump heads when shaking and bowing because shaking hands requires someone to be close..too close for proper bowing face to face...but Asians will make consessions here.

But yeah, a low bow isn't what you said..you only go low to a superior (your boss, politician maybe, a elder, etc). Was the Emperor of Japan at a higher station than the POTUS...well, you can debate that I suppose. Personally..I don't believe that to be the case. The emperor is strictly token bloodline

Thanks for the info, and there maybe specifics about Japan, but bowing did indeed come about through showing trust in the person facing you. I used hand shaking not in relation to Asian/Western interaction, but that in shaking the persons hand (particularly if you initiate the hand shake) was originally a show of trust and faith.

Sure, but when visiting a official from a different culture, you gotta know what you are doing
imagine if the Japanese emperor came to meet a sitting US president and instead of a handshake, he gave a high 5 or a fistbump...this would be awkward in the extreme, and in the west we don't really have much culture behind a handshake..just a thing..
So, screw up bowing in the far east and not only is it highly awkward, but since there is deep culture there with everything having significant meanings, you can send off a not so great impression.
not to mention it looks like you haven't even bothered finding out the most basic aspects of the culture.
Always do a bit of studying before doing anything like that would be my advice.

a reply to: SaturnFX
If anything I was comparing how historically two separate cultures developed different types of greeting, I wasn't suggesting what was appropriate for leaders of state when meeting other leaders of state, I'm not really sure why you thought that, possibly being overly sensitive?

I actually brought it into the thread as it's one of those things that stick in your head from school, but mainly I was responding to a post that suggested (as many, many have on ATS in the post) that the simple act of a US president bowing to an Asian head of state is effectively prostrating himself and declaring himself less worthy.

originally posted by: uncommitted
I was responding to a post that suggested (as many, many have on ATS in the post) that the simple act of a US president bowing to an Asian head of state is effectively prostrating himself and declaring himself less worthy.

Oh I agree with that. better a fkuct up bow than no bow, and people who see a bow as somehow this submission thing on any level are simply ignorant, and with the availability of the internet, they are willfully ignorant.