‘Impossible’ EM drive engine produces thrust from nothing

IT should be impossible. But science appears to say it’s happening. A prototype space engine seems to be producing energy from nothing. And it’s just passed peer review.

The reactionless thruster was met with a surge of excitement — and scepticism — when reports of its science-fiction sounding ability to pull fuel out of the void of space itself emerged in 2001.

If true, we could be walking on the surface of Pluto much sooner than anyone dared dream.

Despite a bevy of tests, including this one by NASA’s propulsion workshop (Eagleworks), the bold claim simply hasn’t gone away. Now it’s another step closer to credibility.

The formal study into the controversial, physics-defying EM Drive was formally published in the Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics’ Journal of Propulsion and Power late last week. This means the processes and measurements used in testing the performance of this ‘impossible engine’ could not be faulted by a panel of independent scientists.

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While I believe information about this device has been posted in the past, the significance of it passing peer review seems like a pretty big milestone. When the article first appeared, it was on the main page of many news sites, but it has since been buried by insignificant stories.

Despite the technology not being a reality just yet, it is exciting to think of where we are headed, and it will be interesting to see how the scientific community adapts to the revelations if it goes further.

Do you think this is a fascinating development for science, or is the device being over-hyped?

Do you think this is a fascinating development for science, or is the device being over-hyped?

If it does indeed work as they say then it could solve a lot of issues obviously. I wonder, besides being fuel'less, if it offers any gain in speed as well?

ETA: I guess it is amazingly fast. Theoretically.

EM drive doesn't work on "nothing" as you put it,, it works on magnetic fields (electron magnetics) engine, look at project Aurora it has the ability to go faster than ("20+ times the speed of sound") possibly, that's what I've heard so far, so i'm sure EM wouldn't be far behind.

Edit, That said, unless any of us are part of the EM project? then we really don't know what possibilities it does/maybe have.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I love the idea of the impossible engine but will need to see it working to believe it.
As far as I'm aware Peer review means the methods used by the scientists are sound but it doesn't mean the the technology works , although it does give credibility to their research.

Time will tell.

Yes, this has been going on for some time, then NASA had a go a few years back.



This second video will provide enough ear bashing on the subject that is desireable.

It doesn’t mean it’s real, though. It just means something’s happening that isn’t yet fully understood... So, with the ‘impossible’ EM drive, the only way this could really work is if an as-yet unknown mysterious reaction is happening with the very substance of space itself.

That's awesome! What if they have stumbled onto a way to convert dark matter into energy on the fly?!

...so that's how the aliens got here.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

What you need to be aware of is that this device does not NEED to be powerful in the traditional sense. We tend to think of powerful engines as having a certain horsepower, or producing above a certain number of thousands of pounds of thrust, but this is an engine that will never launch a ship to space. Instead, it will be activated once in space already, and things are WAY easier in some respects, once you get there. The reason for that, is that a body under power will not slow down until impeded somehow, in the zero g environment. So you could give a thing a little kick, and it would move at that speed until someone stops it. This means that with relatively little actual thrust, a body can be projected far faster through space, than would be the case on Earth.

The usual problem however, is how to make engines fast enough, without having too much fuel on board to make the thrust gains workable. With an engine that requires no reaction mass at all however, you reach the point where you literally carry the power source for the electrical system, and the payload and bodywork, plus passengers and consumables... This makes for a giganticly light weight craft, which would take less energy to propel.

That's all assuming this thing really works, and that the experiments which have been run to establish its efficacy are not in someway flawed, in a way which will only become known when the thing gets tested in space.

They don't understand how it works and are not going to invest a lot into development until they do. They believe it works on a small right now and are studying it is from what I understand.

a reply to: DarkvsLight29

The reason why it is so exciting is that it is a zero propelent drive which means it can provide thrust without consuming any fuel. As stated in the peer reviewed paper that came out earlier this month, out of all the zero propelent technologies for example like solar sails it provides the highest thrust potential.

If you have propelent it runs out. This drive uses solar panels and liquid hydrogen to produce microwaves inside a cone like chamber and somehow it produces thrust without consuming anything.

The op is right this is a huge News story.

Sumthin from nuthin thrusters?

Mmmkaaay...

Popular Mechanics, 2015

originally posted by: ms898
a reply to: DarkvsLight29

The reason why it is so exciting is that it is a zero propelent drive which means it can provide thrust without consuming any fuel. As stated in the peer reviewed paper that came out earlier this month, out of all the zero propelent technologies for example like solar sails it provides the highest thrust potential.

If you have propelent it runs out. This drive uses solar panels and liquid hydrogen to produce microwaves inside a cone like chamber and somehow it produces thrust without consuming anything.

The op is right this is a huge News story.

I'd just written a whole post saying what you said (didn't work), i'll try again.. step 1. Em will work by consuming the Earth's magnetic field and storing it as energy, like hybrid tec, then theoretically use stars or planets as a source of EM energy, almost "FREE" a power source would need to be used to store it and utilise it for distance, other than that EM could be a free source.

An EM drive, should start by using hybrid Tec, reason why is because it need's to be stored somehow, the distances in space are vast and by storing energy would help, if this engine doesn't store energy it will run out fast, before it may get to another star/planet to consume more, thus hybrid engine would be best to begin with... Just my view.

This was the second peer review, which finally provided the data to back-up the original concept. It was also the first time it was tested in a near complete vacuum, unlike the first peer review. The next step is to downsize a working model and attach it to a cubesat in order to fully test how it operates in the vacuum of space. This is good news and another positive step in bringing an amazing concept to life. Much skepticism has been removed after the paper was published.

a reply to: DarkvsLight29

Yea thats right. It will use solar power to power the device so it is consuming energy but it's is a practically infinite resource.
See just because in space you can convert solar energy into electricity doesn't mean you can use it to propel a craft because you are not pushing anything I.e there is no air in space like a jet on earth could push. This drive uses the solar energy to produce electricity which then produces microwaves. I have read that it is believed there is some unknown quantum process that takes place that produces particles on the quantum level as a result of the microwaves bouncing around in the sealed cone.
The particles are thereorised to be created then push away from the craft.

My question is this:

If it can provide thrust to move a spaceship forward, why can't we use it to turn a turbine?

Or, in other terms, could this be adapted to basically become the first scientifically demonstrable "free energy" generator?

a reply to: DarkvsLight29

I believe it's powered by microwaves bouncing around...still amazing

a reply to: LifeMode

It`s kind of important to understand how it works otherwise you won`t be able to fix it when it stops doing what it`s suppose to do.
If they can`t fix it then they need to carry a lot of spare engines when they venture far into space.

a reply to: Tman2135

Well it can just very very slowly. Atm it is relatively weak compared to other earthbound tech. A normal solar panel could provide more electricity.

What makes this useful is that space has no friction and no air. A planes propeller on earth works because it is moving air. In space you can have a lot of solar power but no way to move anything.

This drive somehow by using electricity to produce microwaves in a sealed cone produces thrust.

Because of no friction and a unlimited source of power it can go high speeds theoretically

a reply to: ms898

Thanks, at least this opens the door to the "impossible." Hopefully other ideas which have been belittled by the scientific establishment will be up for debate.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I'm in complete disagreement with this article. The EM drive uses microwave energy and does not get anywhere remotely close to 100% efficiency let alone more than 100%.

Either way, the device is set for a test in space. Then, we'll know either way.

originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: LifeMode

It`s kind of important to understand how it works otherwise you won`t be able to fix it when it stops doing what it`s suppose to do.
If they can`t fix it then they need to carry a lot of spare engines when they venture far into space.

I do agree, but no one would build an engine they couldn't fix, unless it's a one off even then spare parts should be available.