Multicultulerism and diversity...why ?

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Let's say food, agriculture techniques, aritfacts, music, poetry, aspects of science. Without multiculturalism the spread and exchange of ideas is much slower. Offering fresh eyes, offering a different perspective to problem solving, etc.

Look into the Etic and emic perspective in anthropology.

Some cultures look at our behaviour as barbaric and if you are big enough to look critically at your own culture these are useful insights to social evolution.

However, human rights are a philosphical important factor to a modern social contract.

It's perfectly reasonable to critisize say middle eastern Muslim subjugation of woman in certain regions. It doesn't make you a racist to question people behaviour when your question is not based from superstitious inquiry or from ignorance.

However that doesn't mean you can't enjoy humus, listening to the oud, or reading sufi poetry.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

...but isnt that the reason we travel the world ?

Maybe for some. Personally I travel to get away from people. Not to interact with them.

Many...many came for the welfare.

We have no way of verifying that. I believe that's fearmongering.

Though In my own defense...I never supported any meddling...

& neither did a few billion on the planet. Does that mean we turn our backs on those in need.
I never supported troops going over there to fight a war for Oil either.
But I want vets treated with respect & dignity when they come back. Not sleeping on the streets.

Why should I suffer the same ?

You truly believe you're suffering is the same as those fleeing Assad's totalitarian regime, NATO bombs, Russian air strikes and ISIS persecution?

Put yourself in their wartorn shoes, wouldn't you flee to the safest place possible?

The West.


Which brings us to this;

Nor do I think my country is the "bestest in the world"...

I wasn't speaking specifically about your Nation, Mario.
I was highlighting the mantras of The West. The "Exceptional".

It is neither of our's fault that it is advertised how it is...
That is for Our Dear Leaders. But we do what we face for the needy anyways. Despite our overlords.

...though it doesnt mean they should have rights to change our society.

I agree.
But I also believe they should just leave everything about their culture behind just because Nationalists demand "integration", which is basically code for do as I do.
My life has been diversified by people from my own nation, different cultures from within up North of the Country.
It has also been diversified by people from outside of our Nation.

It mounded me into a better person.
I'm grateful for that. So maybe I'm biased.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Hazardous1408

It probably wouldn't be near as bad as you perceive it if western nations hadn't decimated the Middle East in crusades for Oil & Gas.

People have been saying this for thirty years. Where is the oil? We supposedly fought multiple wars for it. Where is it? Did I miss it?

It's in the hands of Exxon & Gazprom.

You actually thought you'd see the benefits of it?
How naive.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

I think unwavering human rights concepts and language is as far as assimitation needs to go. I think being aware of your new countries history and traditions is part of respect as well.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Hmm dunno, my family took in some Croatian Catholics and a Bosnian muslim during the war in the 90s, but that's different right?

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Hazardous1408

I think unwavering human rights concepts and language is as far as assimitation needs to go. I think being aware of your new countries history and traditions is part of respect as well.

Couldn't agree more.

I don't think it's much to ask of a migrant to follow the laws or speak the language.
& leave behind any prejudices that may have arisen in their own land.

That's all I ask.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

The truth is China got most of it, not us.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Diversity creates conflict. (not always) Throw a cat into a dog pen for an example.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Finally, & importantly, you cannot legitimately claim to be the bastion of freedom and advertise yourself as the greatest of civilisation and expect people not to want to turn up at your door looking for some of that greatness.

Indeed. However, it's mass immigration I believe the OP is referring to, not simple immigration/migration. Big difference.

Few people can argue sensibly against the latter, but the former is clearly irrational and unwise.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Personally, I believe that dislike of others is due to fear that what you are isn't strong enough to withstand exposure. For example, if you're a devout Christian family and a Muslim family moves next door, you're afraid that your kids playing together will influence your kids religious beliefs. Thing is, that's a risk we are supposed to harbor as Americans.

This applies across the board. Religion, sexuality, gender, skin color... it's fear that your culture cannot withstand exposure to another. Which to me says there is no strength in your convictions.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

Multi-culturalism does not work and never has. As soon as a minority get above a certain percentage they stop trying to assimilate and start demanding political rights as a separate group. Just look around the world. Separate cultures simply aren't meant to share the same living space. Anytime you do, you're going to see a history of trouble and turmoil, sometimes leading to open warfare.


In South Africa it's the whites versus the blacks versus the Indians. And even amongst the blacks it's Zulu versus Xhosa, etc.

In Central Africa it's the Hutus versus the Tutsis.

In Palestine it's the Jews versus the Arabs.

In the Phillipines it's the Catholics versus the Moslems.

In Lebanon it's Sunni versus Shia versus the Christians versus the Druze versus the Maronites versus the Palestinians, etc.

In India it's Hindus versus Moslems versus Sikh versus Assamese.

In Iraq it's Sunnis versus Shia.

In Afghanistan it's Baluchis versus Hazara versus Khrghiz.

In the Balkans it's the Serbs versus the Croats versus the Bosnians versus the Herzogovinans, etc.

In the Caucauses it's the Armenians versus the Karabahks versus the Georgians versus the Azerbaijanies, etc. etc.

On Cyprus it's the Turks versus the Greeks.

In parts of the middle east it's the Kurds versus the Turks, the Arabs, and the Persians.

In Chechnya it's the Chechnyans versus the Russians.

In the Ukraine it's the Ukrainian speakers versus the Russian speakers.

In Sri Lanka it's the Sinhala versus the Tamils.

On Fiju it's the Tamil versus the native Fijians.

In Burma it's the Burmese versus the Karens and Rohingya.

In Tibet it's the Tibetans versus the Han Chinese.

In Uighurstan it's the Uighurs versus the Han Chinese.

In Malaysia and Indonesia it's the Malays versus the Chinese.

On Irian Jaya it's the Indonesians versus the native peoples.

In the Baltic countries its the Lats, Lits, and Ests versus the Russians.

In Ireland it's Catholic versus the Protestant.

In Spain it's the Basque versus the Spanish.

In Belgium it's the Flemish versus the Walloons.

In Canada it's the French-speaking versus the English-speaking.

In the US it's the blacks versus the whites.

In Latin America it's the criolles versus the nativos.

In Australia it's the whites versus the Aboriginies.

Heck, even the Czechs and Slovaks couldn't stand each other and decided to split up.


And those are just the examples I can think of off the top of my head.

So go ahead North America and Europe. Keep your borders open a few more years and then let's watch the fireworks begin!

a reply to: Kali74

I believe there is also the issue of unreasonable acceptance.

If you know there is a pattern of say sexual harassment because of culture when a cultural migration happens you can't be so afraid of being perceived racist you endanger the safety of the public. In fact fearing justified conflict is also racist. Conflict in my definition not tied to supersrion, or other non reason, and not necessarily violent.


Once again the common or mean average person is ignored for two extreme points of view.

Immigrants as boogeyman
Or
Accept everything including human rights issues with the host countries social contract.

a reply to: starviego

Honestly it's a non issue. Multiculturalism is:

Whether it works or not most often is an effect of the leadership and intentions of the leadership.

We came from Africa in my opinion to survive an event and as we spread into different environments learned new things about survival.

Then we exchange ideas, sometimes for money, food, or just as duty.

a reply to: luthier

If it's real and not propaganda, absolutely, something would need to be done.

a reply to: Kali74

There are exceptions. I am talking about on a larger scale. It seems some groups do assimilate together better than others. I have never seen Asian's have issues with Whites or even Hispanics on a large scale. There are one or two groups who can't assimilate with anyone, even themselves, no matter what part of the globe they may be on.

a reply to: Kali74

Well how would you find out when both radical positions control the marching microphone.

One would be study the culture of Islam in places like Somalia. Believe it or not Syria is much more modern and has less mid evil beliefs but the refuge crisis is also political and has directors.

So one needs to understand the difference of whahabism vs sufism and try and be unbiased with modern human rights from the host country as a guide. Understand there may be conflicts when these ideology merge and use both parties intellectual leaders to find solutions.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

Hogwash. It's individuals whom decide to be pigheaded not cultures. If your neighbor isn't demanding you to go to Mosque/Church/Temple with him what do you care if he is going? Is his going an affront to you? You're mad because he won't accept your God? Mad that he believes in God at all? Mad that he doesn't believe in God at all? Why does he need to assimilate?

a reply to: luthier

The same way we always find out... just do it and realize the ones screaming are just morons.

a reply to: Kali74

You are correct, its all about fear, and its based upon the fear of change. And at its core, US society is a fear based society. And that being the case, what we have seen and what we will see more of is residential social segregation on the basis of color, creed, or religious and cultural identity.

That type pattern ultimately eats away at national identity and of course social cohesion making a nation far weaker and far more prone to corruption at all levels. And so it goes. Its an irreversible pattern. I read an interesting analysis of the last days of the Roman Empire. Same thing. And what happened at the end was that the dominant Roman culture lost all faith in the government to hold the line and then, rather than encouraging their children to enlist to support the Empire and to protect its borders, they quietly established safe estates in the hinterlands to protect their wealth. They left the Italian cities and fled to the countryside, and many of the wealthiest fled with their wealth to Constantinople.

Same thing is happening in the US now.