The only pilot to fly Both the F-22 and the F-35

This video also brings to light why comparing one aircraft to another has never been less important in modern 5th Gen environments.

Enlightening to say the least:

www.youtube.com...

lobbyists

The one thing I hate about the F-35 is the drastic difference of opinions/information available about the plane/project. I just read another article "F-35 crisis as Pentagon's Top weapon testing official warns" outlining how the plane is being rushed into service and isn't in a state ready to deploy but is being forced forward for the Publicity Win.

It seems it is hard to find the middle ground on this project or to get an idea of the true value/state of the aircraft.

One upside I am noticing is most sources (even those who used to hate on this plane 24/7) are beginning to mention it's positives, and to admit it may have some much-needed features/intelligence to the battlefield.

I have hope for the platform. Hope it delivers what we need out of the gate, but even if it does have several hiccups, I believe it will be an amazing tool a few years out after the bugs are squashed.

I fear we'll see more and more of these issues on all new planes/projects going forward. It seems most of the issues are now with the software/computer systems and not in the hardware/performance of the plane itself. As someone who works in software development, I don't see this getting better as the platforms before more complicated. My full-time job is finding/fixing issues in code, and the more complex the system, the more bugs will found be in the code. I'm betting this will cause several problems with the platform, cost overruns, and take a lot of time to find/replace/improve. This will only get worse with each additional task they add outside of flying the aircraft. The idea of upgrading the code for these systems also scares me... I can just imagine an unexpected/untested bug after an update costing us planes/pilots.

~Winter

a reply to: Winterpain

The more advanced the aircraft gets, the more problems they're going to have in development and the harder it's going to be to keep things on track and on budget. The F-35 is the most advanced aircraft flying anywhere in the world, and is years ahead of anything else, even the F-22 when it comes to sensor fusion and the software involved.

a reply to: Zaphod58

...and to continue your line of thinking, any bugs in the system can only truly be found and fixed by putting them on the ships, bases. Real life operations will trump any testing process. It's always been that way. Since the Wright Brothers at Kittyhawk to today.

a reply to: seagull

Yep. Many of the features that are being expanded with new aircraft are only going to be found once the actual system integration occurs. You can test the software with simulated integration, but that won't tell you if it works, without the actual equipment being integrated with it. One of the things the IOT&E director (who I personally don't agree with) brings up is the lack of time to find bugs in the systems and work them out.

a reply to: Winterpain

Many of the negative articles are by people who wanted to hate it.

For instance if you took a rifle, removed the bullets, and tested close combat effectiveness against a sword ... and then said rifles are a failure and no guns should be built .. that's the level of stupidity of some of those reports.

Every pilot I have heard speak who has flown it has loved it.

a reply to: nwtrucker


Ironic that the only place that I found mentioning a pilot that had flown both aircraft was in an Australian publication while searching for exchange pilot information.

I'm no great fan of the F35, I agree when it's fully operational it will be a formidable system but the claims of it'a current readiness simply aren't credible.

Working for BAE I'm lucky to know some of the classified capabilities and they are very impressive and I've had thr chance to chat with two RAF pilots who are part of what will be the OCU for future RAF F35 crews.

The contrasting views of the two pilots were interesting, they came from different sections of the RAF, one trained on tornados and typhoons (dogfihting and intercepting) and the other on harriers in low level strike and interdiction.

The strike guy was very happy but acknowledged the limitations in the F35 design, he'd love to take it into a high threat SAM environment and high targets, but he's unsure about the ultra low level stuff the RAF is famed for, apparently the wing loading makes for a strangely uncomfortable ride fast and low and it's general fragility to small arms fire. He loves the sensor fusion and data availability.

The Typhoon guy was far less impressed, i think because he's come from a very powerful aircraft he bemoaned the general power of the airframe and the currently unstable avionics suite . He was being a little unfair on the way the aircraft is designed , too narrow a design, too much sacrificied for the supposed invisibility which he firmly believes will come back to haunt the project. He condensed his opinion into "F35 is a great airframe when part of a combined force but when it loses it's integration it's a target which is easier to find and deal with than anyone at the DoD is willing to admit openly, it will ALWAYS need protection"

BAE are currently spending a LOT of money getting data integration ready for the next Typhoon upgrade now that the Brimstone and Brimstone 2 updates have reached the ops testing teams. They know how vital that data sharing is to making the F35 a success for the RAF.

I'd love to see F35 become a success for us Brits, it'a literally the last manned airframe we'll be able to afford (the published prices foe the RAF airfcraft are nonsense by the way) and BAE are pushing hard now with the future projects team now ignoring manned platforms completely for the group controlled Taranis evolution options (controlled and tasked from heavily modified 2 seat Typhoons)

Interesting I saw a BAE concept drawing for a 2 seat F35 dated 2012, pilot / positions interchangable , would've handled the potentional pilot information overload . Pity I wasn't allowed to photograph it!

a reply to: TheBogmonster

Working for BAE I'm lucky to know some of the classified capabilities and they are very impressive

Interesting I saw a BAE concept drawing for a 2 seat F35 dated 2012, pilot / positions interchangable , would've handled the potentional pilot information overload . Pity I wasn't allowed to photograph it!

You really, really, really, shouldn't be posting stuff like that.

a reply to: TheBogmonster


I don't how politically correct the two pilots in this video were being. (Both with 'Pentagon' time) Yet the comments of the marine pilot suggests a major mentality shift from 4th Gen platform to 5th Gen. Obviously, the U.S. pilots
have had far more time with the 5th gens than your counterparts. Is it possible that your guys haven't got the full potential of the airframe quite yet?


I see the EF-F-35 package as almost as effective as the F-22-F-35 package.

originally posted by: C0bzz
a reply to: TheBogmonster

Working for BAE I'm lucky to know some of the classified capabilities and they are very impressive

Interesting I saw a BAE concept drawing for a 2 seat F35 dated 2012, pilot / positions interchangable , would've handled the potentional pilot information overload . Pity I wasn't allowed to photograph it!

You really, really, really, shouldn't be posting stuff like that.

Please don't lecture me on whether or not I should post such things, I have breached no part of my security clearance, shared no classified information, BAE themselves will share what they want, when they want if and when the ongoing arguments with LM are settled.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: TheBogmonster


I don't how politically correct the two pilots in this video were being. (Both with 'Pentagon' time) Yet the comments of the marine pilot suggests a major mentality shift from 4th Gen platform to 5th Gen. Obviously, the U.S. pilots
have had far more time with the 5th gens than your counterparts. Is it possible that your guys haven't got the full potential of the airframe quite yet?


I see the EF-F-35 package as almost as effective as the F-22-F-35 package.

There is currently a lot of bad blood between sections of the UK MoD-BAE and LM-DoD as many times it appears as though UK defence policy and procurement is being dictated by a US private company.

BAE is a sectional company, licensed manufacturing (as in F35 etc) are polar opposite to the special / future projects departments and R&D separate again yet in the last 2 years F35 has been sucking funds and personnel from other departments at an alarming rate and it seems LM ia calling the shots more often than not - the rear fuselage section of F35 had some quite serious manufacturing issues (classified understandably) and 6 members of the special projects engineers were basically ordered to go and sort it out "because LM need it sorting now" now these things do happen but this came to a head when 3 of those engineers were told the move was permanent, bear in mind the spec projects guys are pretty much in the top 0.01% of aero engineers in the world, 2 quit and took the hardship that bough them (MoD rules mean 6 months before they can apply for aero work anywhere after quitting and reduction in clearance)

Many of my colleagues are convinced that BAE is being lined up for a US move / takeover and currently our pathetically compliant government will probably allow it (it was originally prohibited) as they've recently done with block price increases & project delays.

As for the aircrews, the strike guy I think has more experience with F35 hence his enthusiasm but I think many problems stem from the fact that MoD employees are actively told not to express negative views about the most expensive project in UK defence history and hence even though we know the problems we have to smile and deny everything.

The potential for Typhoon - F35 integration is fantastic but it may not happen, the money simply may run out and that suits LM & the DoD as we'll need US aircraft to use the airframe to it's full capability.

originally posted by: C0bzz
a reply to: TheBogmonster

Working for BAE I'm lucky to know some of the classified capabilities and they are very impressive

Interesting I saw a BAE concept drawing for a 2 seat F35 dated 2012, pilot / positions interchangable , would've handled the potentional pilot information overload . Pity I wasn't allowed to photograph it!

You really, really, really, shouldn't be posting stuff like that.

Agreed.
Second line.

originally posted by: TheBogmonster

originally posted by: C0bzz
a reply to: TheBogmonster

Working for BAE I'm lucky to know some of the classified capabilities and they are very impressive

Interesting I saw a BAE concept drawing for a 2 seat F35 dated 2012, pilot / positions interchangable , would've handled the potentional pilot information overload . Pity I wasn't allowed to photograph it!

You really, really, really, shouldn't be posting stuff like that.

Please don't lecture me on whether or not I should post such things, I have breached no part of my security clearance, shared no classified information, BAE themselves will share what they want, when they want if and when the ongoing arguments with LM are settled.

You don't get it do you?

a reply to: TheBogmonster


Ouch! Far too many levels in your post to deal with. LOL. Best that I keep my head in the sand on this one. LOL

Assuming there's no small measure of vent behind your post, at least you have been heard.

originally posted by: Violater1

originally posted by: TheBogmonster

originally posted by: C0bzz
a reply to: TheBogmonster

Working for BAE I'm lucky to know some of the classified capabilities and they are very impressive

Interesting I saw a BAE concept drawing for a 2 seat F35 dated 2012, pilot / positions interchangable , would've handled the potentional pilot information overload . Pity I wasn't allowed to photograph it!

You really, really, really, shouldn't be posting stuff like that.

Please don't lecture me on whether or not I should post such things, I have breached no part of my security clearance, shared no classified information, BAE themselves will share what they want, when they want if and when the ongoing arguments with LM are settled.

You don't get it do you?

Haha you think?
seriously .. have you always been this slow on the uptake?
hint : 3 days to go lol

Well if you the guy hadn't drawn attention to himself, he sure has now. Great work everyone, good hustle.

a reply to: TheBogmonster

I'd love to see how they'd fit a second cockpit. There would have to be some sacrifices made.. Cut on fuel capacity? Anyway don't worry about the tin-hat-wearers. If they knew how many people have security clearances and what exactly that means they wouldn't be so worried. It's all conjecture without evidence. At one point you had to have a security clearance to work on certain HMMVs... Nothing in it was exceptional or ground breaking, nor could anything not be learned by just looking at it. ok end rant. Keep sharing.

a reply to: Caughtlurking

Gut the bay where the lift fan goes on the B model. The A and C run electrical and hydraulic lines through there, among other things. Empty that out, and put the cockpit in. You'd probably lose some capability, but not much. You might be able to reroute the systems through other ways, like they did on the B model to make room for the fan.