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4,900,000,000$ To Tesla, Space X, Solar City- Time to Stop Spending Taxpayer $$ on Musk's Cronyism

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posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: stonerwilliam

My thought are there are lots of people with vision, maybe it's time to cut this guy loose to sink or swim.


Or maybe Elon should use his OWN $$$$$$ like normal business.


In the big picture that kind of money is loose change just look at the tax breaks big companies get like Apple / starbucks / Walmart etc as the old saying goes you cannot make a omlette without breaking eggs .

In the uk EVERY job the government takes on goes 2-3 times the estimate and is years overdue the high speed rail link HS2 for a small part of the country is 60 billion english pounds




posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: Christosterone
Jesus Christ...

Obama gutted NASA for what??

This is a disgrace...

We walked on the moon almost 50 years ago....this is absolute idiocy..

Let's hope Trump reinvests in NASA who actually can produce results...and see us return to the moon and mars after that...

Where have you gone, Werner Von Braun?

-Chris


Absolutely NASA actually made lots of scientific discoveries/progress the only downside was that they didn't offer trips into space for a few hours for a couple hundred thousand dollars so obviously that's unacceptable. Long live Musk!!! Oh wait i mean boooooo!



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:15 PM
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Chump change. Barely buys one aircraft carrier. Talk about subsidies! The US Navy keeping the sea lanes open to supply the world (not just the US) with oil is pretty expensive, too. SpaceX, on the other hand, launches satellites, resupplies the ISS, and is doing the groundwork to get us to a fossil-free fuel system. My cousin just bought a Tesla. He has solar panels on the roof in the cloudy PNW. He generates twice as much electricity as he uses, including recharging his car. If everyone did that, we could kiss the Middle East goodbye. The government subsidizes industries that will benefit us all, from railroads in the 19th century to solar today. It's money well spent.



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: stonerwilliam
Oh so his companies are just as bad a the govt. Never mind let's give him a bump of 10% then./sar


And 5 billion isn't loose change.



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

He probably just embezzles all government grants for himself.



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Look, Elon Musk is the most important guy alive today - I could easily make the argument he will become the most important man that has ever lived.

This is money well spent, the amount of improvement that has happened in rocket technology, battery technology, manufacturing Tech, driverless car tech is incredibly impressive in the decade he has been involved.
No other company has come remotely close to this amount of innovation.

Space X is profitable, and not only that it has dropped the cost of launches by an several orders of magnitude - especially if it is proven the rockets can be reused.

Tesla - well it is not profitable yet - but if he pulls off his plans for the model 3 - which given his track record I am confident he eventually will, he will not only make an electric car that is practical for the masses, he will have also created the most sophisticated automated factory ever.

I am not an environmental fanatic - however I am all for using the most efficient clean technology available if it is cost competitive. Because of Elon Musk it nearly is - and electric cars are superior in every way other than cost, but due to improved battery technologies this will likely change in the next 5 years or so.

The case of Solar City is a bit more complicated. I am also in favor of getting people off the grid and generating their own energy through solar. This is also becoming far more cost competitive due to their efforts. The fact that Solar City has now developed solar shingles that are supposedly very reliable and normal looking, it is a giant move toward that becoming reality.

Solar City is just further away from being profitable, but I believe it will get there.

5 billion is an absolute pittance for the amount of innovation these companies have achieved. I can think of dozens of cleantech companies that have gone to absolute zero. Musk's track record is stellar, he gets incredibly difficult stuff done - fast.

There are about a million other things the government is wasting money on that should be fixed long before you should dare complain about the money Musk's companies are getting.




edit on 16-11-2016 by proximo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: schuyler
How has either of the 3 companies in question helped the average American? Have they made travel across our vast country easier like RR's?

How many solar panels? Does he have any electrical appliances? something doesn't sound right...





The government subsidizes industries that will benefit us all, from railroads in the 19th century to solar today. It's money well spent.



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:21 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: stonerwilliam
Oh so his companies are just as bad a the govt. Never mind let's give him a bump of 10% then./sar


And 5 billion isn't loose change.


It is if you are the American gov.com , they throw that kind of cash at Egypt every year ditto Pakistan and double that for Israel

At the end of the day it is all about keeping people in jobs the cash is just numbers on a computer somewhere and if you remember the fed has its own cash machine

edit on 16/11/2016 by stonerwilliam because: spellingz



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:25 PM
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originally posted by: schuyler
Chump change. Barely buys one aircraft carrier. Talk about subsidies! The US Navy keeping the sea lanes open to supply the world (not just the US) with oil is pretty expensive, too. SpaceX, on the other hand, launches satellites, resupplies the ISS, and is doing the groundwork to get us to a fossil-free fuel system. My cousin just bought a Tesla. He has solar panels on the roof in the cloudy PNW. He generates twice as much electricity as he uses, including recharging his car. If everyone did that, we could kiss the Middle East goodbye. The government subsidizes industries that will benefit us all, from railroads in the 19th century to solar today. It's money well spent.


The US Navy unfortunately earth thinks it's "our" Navy.

Kudos to your cousin for making an effort.

Railroads even back then do not seem to be so much pie in the sky as some of his projects are. Sometimes it's kinda like a gambler at a blackjack table thinking my luck is gonna change my luck is gonna change. Maybe it's not so just walk away...For now.



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Solar city just debuted solar roof tiles. Which is huge and will help make America that much more energy efficient



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Solar city just debuted solar roof tiles. Which is huge and will help make America that much more energy efficient



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:40 PM
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a reply to: conscientiousobserver



Solar city just debuted solar roof tiles. Which is huge and will help make America that much more energy efficient

That is an admirable product, how much per SQ.

My point is giving all that $ to companies that show little does a few things.

1) Gives a company an unfair advantage over others.

2) because $ rolls in even if the products don't sell, they stay open, clogging the market with dinosaurs.

3) That money goes to them (Elon) and not to truly innovative companies.

4) Builds unholy alliances between faulty businesses and govt.



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:41 PM
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Don't like the guy myself.

He conned California into buying one of his energy grid batteries based on Li-ion tech (like TeslaWall and his e-car) which is dumb for the gov of Cali to do. This just before the Samsungs started blowing up! So when his grid battery goes...

He even spun off another company for a friend of his to start basically the same company as Tesla! They are based out of San Fran and do nothing different than Tesla is doing for grid storage only they do it under another name.

HIs Gigafactories are a joke. Unless he can re-vamp over to graphene (which he can't jut do, you need research, test models, manufacturing changes, safety reviews, etc) by next year he is sunk. There is a company in Australia making an aluminum-grapene-oxygen battery right now. Demo model first of the year. To store energy from the grid you need to go to 100% which his storage solution cannot do--they will only do 60% or so to keep from blowing up. And they cannot go to 0% discharge without problems either. Vanadium redox flow batteries can do it and are currently being deployed for grid storage. There are other electrolytes also being developed. With flow batteries you just swap out the electrolyte instead having to remake a battery. He lost the race by betting on Li ion.

And to add on top of all that, he is getting free advertising on NatGeo's show Mars (which sucks). One reason why I will not watch the show ever again: Elon Musk. Now to find the grand total... I'd be mad but it does not surprise me. Didn't he try to get PayPal migrated to MS Windows from already working Unix?? What ever gets you on the money train I guess.



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: rickymouse
How about thorium reactors to make clean safe cheap energy?




Just think of what could have been done with that much money. There could have been a lot of bucks available for utility companies to put up solar grids or some turbins. That is a lot of money. I am shocked that they kept dumping all that money into that venture. There must be a lot of big salaries and overpayment for supplies back with consequential kickbacks to the ones running it.





Yup, those reactors are supposed to be a lot safer and they are not nearly as expensive to build. The materials are not as much of a safety issue either. Read about them back a year ago, seems like nobody here is considering them, guess they do not create as many jobs and they do not scare people.



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

So his self landing rockets are not innovative for you?.



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: SPHARAOH

Or maybe he has a grand vision where you will have a solar roof in place of shingles. A roof that will power your house and vehicle. With power to spare.

With that said they just recently developed solar roof tiles. Which I'm sure the R&D wasn't cheap. So there is your lack of profits . now that they have an attractive solar option that is more cost efficient than the shingles it replaces. You just might see those magic profits start to appear.



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse

Yea something was done with that money. They created solar roof tiles. A much more efficient and attractive option. As opposed to traditional shingles and ugly solar panel setups.



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:51 PM
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so franklin said lightning is electric and is bad-ass?
tesla said hey, let's harness it and warm people's homes for free!

some hillbilly shot a hole in the ground and then moved to beverly, hills that is.
swimming pools-movie stars.

i hear the tesla roadster has four wheel drive like nothing before it?

it's not just oil, it's creating voids where voids don't belong. we're supposed to be smarter than that?

welcome to the new century where new ideas generate the electricity---->to warm people's homes.






posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Which is a fraction of what the us gives his competitors.


5 billion is not a lot over 10 years. We give more in military aid yearly to Saudi Arabia and turkey.

Researchers at the IMF project that for 2015 the economic cost of total energy subsidies worldwide will amount to US$5.3 trillion in 2015, or US$10 million every minute.[7] This is not to be confused with actual amount of subsidies which are projected to amount to around US$333 billion for 2015.


US gives 43 billion a year to oil and gas.

Per year!

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edit on 16-11-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

$hitty cause you can't afford one? Or $hitty cause you read a few bad reviews about things that have since been fixed.
They are the most technologically advanced vehicles on the market. So people have every reason in the world to get glassy eyed over. Not to mention the model 3 will be released next year at the very affordable starting price of $30000 and I honestly can't wait to get one.




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