Trump's reversal on ObamaCare

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

And no i dont need to be high to say that you, trump and is fans are liars.

I swear, I know some of you guys aren't idiots, but you sure make it hard for me to keep that in mind when you generalize like this. Are all liberals sniveling whiny bitches? are all conservatives hard ass racists? somehow, I just don't think so. Maybe in a few hours it will look different.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Still no content. Just veiled insults. Since he is not in office yet I guess we will have to wait but I am not going to base his policy and a one sided 60 minutes interview.

You claimed that donald never said once that he would repeal obamacare, why did you and trump fans go around spouting it as truth, same with breitbart and all the fake right wings news, you have to do better than that cup cake.

originally posted by: matafuchs
Where are the lies?

You must not have bothered to read the 3 current news articles I posted in the opening post. I didn't make those up.

I know some of you are smarter than this.

If this is bothering you this much right now, just think how you're going to feel in 2020, after 4 years of Trump backpedaling on his campaign promises, acting more Liberal than Hillary, fighting with Congress, and everyone saying that Trump was born in Jamaica and isn't qualified to be President.

You gotta be pretty DENSE not to see this coming.

Maybe in a few hours it will look different.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

And no i dont need to be high to say that you, trump and is fans are liars.

I swear, I know some of you guys aren't idiots, but you sure make it hard for me to keep that in mind when you generalize like this. Are all liberals sniveling whiny bitches? are all conservatives hard ass racists? somehow, I just don't think so. Maybe in a few hours it will look different.

I am not a liberal and i was never dumb enough to vote for a guy like trump, oh and stay on the subject, i never called anyone on ats racist.

So take your kiddy comments and go play in the sandbox.

Lol a trump fan calling someone and idiot, priceless.

originally posted by: matafuchs
So he wants to continue to make sure those with pre-existing conditions will be covered and allow kids to stay on their parents plans. HOW is that saying he will not change the current laws?????

No one wants to discuss HSA's? Opening borders for a free market? Nope, just parrot what the MSM states.

Sure, lets discuss them. If you allow pre existing conditions you must leave the individual mandate in place, otherwise people can get sick and only buy insurance when they need it. Insurance doesn't work that way. Insurance requires the healthy to pay for the sick.

So about HSA's, the idea of an HSA is that you can put some money away each year and use it to cover health care as needed. This requires you to be paid that money in the first place. Lets take a friend of mine, he makes minimum wage 30 hours/week, which in his state disqualifies him from ACA subsidies because of the Medicaid gap. He has to pay $300/month out of pocket for catheters due to being in a wheel chair and being paralyzed. That $300/month amounts to more than half of his paycheck. Fortunately for him, his parents pick up the tab instead. If he was expected to cover that out of an HSA, how would he ever do it? HSA's only work if you can put aside a small percent of your money. Even then, they only work for one time moderate cost issues.

If you're low income, or even moderate income and have even a low cost ongoing issue it wipes out the HSA. For example, I have sleep apnea which runs about $150/month to treat. If I were making $50k/year and putting aside 5% of my pre tax income into an HSA for medical coverage I would be putting aside $2500/year. A simple case of sleep apnea would use up $1800/$2500 of that, for what is routine coverage. Only $700 would go into actual savings.

Now lets look at the real issues that have resulted in all of this tinkering to coverage over the years. Cancer costs on average $5 million to treat. If you made 100k/year, and put 30% of your earnings into medical savings for just yourself (totally ignoring the rest of your family), work for 20 years, and then get sick, you still wouldn't even have 1 million in an HSA, much less the $5 million you need.

You can answer all of this by saying that's what insurance is for... but then we're back at the original issue, rather than divide it into two systems, both of which only thrive under catastrophic conditions, why not have just one system and make it work? If you say we subsidize the HSA's, then isn't that the same problem as subsidizing health insurance premiums? If putting 30% of your income at 100k isn't enough to cover an HSA, how much are we expecting people to put aside?

As far as opening borders across state lines go. It doesn't actually fix anything. Insurance is not a system where more competition reduces prices. More competition decreases the size of risk pools which in turn raises the price. That's the whole reason we don't sell across state lines as it is. If you think it's bad now when people complain that they're men, so their premiums shouldn't be going to cover female procedures, just wait until someone in Wyoming starts complaining that because they live in an area with clean air, their insurance money shouldn't be going towards treatment for people like me who live in coal country and face significantly higher rates of lung cancer.

Insurance works when you have a small known risk pool. The broader you make it the shallower the pool comes and the more spread out coverage becomes.

originally posted by: matafuchs
Where are the lies?

Don't know what you want to call it but here is his plan on health from donaldjtrump.com
First bullet point is:

Repeal and replace Obamacare with Health Savings Accounts (HSAs).

a reply to: dukeofjive696969
I doubt you were able to grasp the meaning there, sorry. I'll slow it down a bit.

to say that all ______ are ______ is stupid. Because all _____ aren't always ________. It's why God made us all a tiny bit different, but still the same. If you think about it for a bit, you might get it.

a reply to: Aazadan

Kudos. Good well-researched and thought out answer to the parroted healthcare push back.

a reply to: Aazadan

so we should stick with what we have now? Just ram it to the middle class, and let them pay for everything?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Aazadan

so we should stick with what we have now? Just ram it to the middle class, and let them pay for everything?

Health insurance is unsustainable, we should move away from it entirely. That's something single payer does, and it actually accomplishes what opening insurance across state lines tries to accomplish by having more bargaining power to bring down costs.

At the end of the day though, the only way to significantly reduce our health care costs is to get drug costs down. Generics get the costs down but also prevent new drugs from being made, longer patents get the costs down too but ultimately we need to stop paying the R&D for other nations health care, and convince them to buy our brand name medicines. That's a tough sell, but it probably could be negotiated into trade deals.