Female Viciously Beaten by Man over Trump Argument at Brooklyn Restaurant

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: dawnstar


If you cannot argue an intelligent devil's advocate for you opponent, then you have already started to shift yourself from a reasonable discourse of agree v. disagree to good v. evil. Did you see how you already have by simply dismissing part of the dialogue as merely being lies not even worthy of your attention?

I've been doing exactly that.
Playing devil's advocate and rotating sides.
I even created a satire thread that only like 6 people "got".

I'm not sure why I'm doing what I'm doing exactly. I could have argued in plenty more threads but I didn't.

I guess it just boils down to agenda. Everyone has an agenda, a plan or set of goals they want to achieve.
I'm not even sure exactly what my agenda is, I could list all sorts of goals I have and how my actions partially apply to them, but in the end there is a lot of gray area where even I'm somewhat unsure.

I guess the best way to put it is that I'm conducting experiments as a work in progress, and I'm just being myself and talking the way I normally talk about things. I don't know what the outcome will be so I just roll the dice out of pure curiosity. I have a mixture of hopes and desires of what I'd like to achieve in terms of intervention into our social dynamics, and also in terms of my own personal position in that society.

I have been in recent days openly lamenting to people (in conversations to students here at the university), that I am sick of labels and group thinking. That making sweeping associations is driving me nuts. Putting everyone into a nice box with a label (like Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative, etc) has become far too problematic and inaccurate and inefficient. It doesn't make sense any more, and I'm surprised that I actually thought it did make sense (albeit partially) beforehand.

Examples are like this thread, or the protests, or whatever. You have this group of 5000 individuals marching for a cause, and 3 or 4 of them go nuts and cause violence, thus creating a deteriorating situation, and putting others in a position where they will either have to flee or possibly be pulled into violent situations themselves. It's a cascading effect. And the onlookers will just generally group them all together "those dam liberals are just this or that".

For what happened in this thread, we have 1 dumb guy. One. He's all on his own - but because of these social labels we apply to ourselves (in complete delirium), he is now no longer just one guy. He is "a Trumper" or whatever label. This categorizes him into a larger grouping of people, spreading the blame and responsibility for this personal choices and actions onto nameless others and lessening the burden on him. Anyone else that's a "Trumper" is now associated with his actions, and takes part of that blame. They are "misogynistic women beaters" or what have you.

This type of grouping and categorization makes almost no sense at all in reality.
Each individual makes their own choices, and has their own unique ideas - and no one can agree 100% on everything, it's impossible. So instead of calling this guy a X or Y whatever group label, we need to redefine our descriptive terminology to represent the concept of individual responsibility and to stray away from group responsibility. That prerogative will go a long way in defusing a lot of the rhetoric and passion that is playing out in this political turmoil that is gripping the nation.

a reply to: thepixelpusher

It's not as bias as you think, because I have seen photographs of her injuries. They are graphic and disturbing. She took a major beating here, make no mistake about it.

And add into the fact she has a concussion and major damage to the front and back of her head, the amount of actual damage is unknown. She's gone to the ER today so we'll know what the assessment is later.

All sorts of possibilities exist there. She might be lucky and will heal completely in a few weeks.
Or she could be suffering permanent brain damage, which could lead to complications in the distant future, like a stroke or something years down the line. It's all unknown, and that's why this was a vicious heinous crime.

I do not know if only 1 punch was thrown, I'll ask her specifically to detail that information for me later.
But it is irrelevant if it were 1 or 5 punches. The visible damage just in the photos is horrific on it's own, and the non-visible damage is totally variable and unpredictable.

The difference between 1 and 2 blows leads to all sorts of irrational thinking. Does 2 punches warrant a stronger penalty by law? Or is it considered 1 assault and battery? Is he more immoral or less immoral based of quantity?

What about quantity vs quality? I could hit someone 10 times and if the quality of those hits are minimal, that person might not get hurt at all. But they could hit me 1 time with a high quality punch and I'd be out cold with a major injury.

Do you see why quantity is actually irrelevant here? We have to stop for a minute and think through these things before we start making hasty judgments that end up blaming the victim or marginalizing their plight. It's unfair and ends up just desensitizing people to this crap and in the end, leaves the door open for more.

a reply to: muzzleflash

so.....
is your friend imaginary or real???

originally posted by: jonnywhite
a reply to: muzzleflash
Agree with you. That's sick. That man needs some jail time and probably some mental help to control his anger. I wonder who else he's hurt?

Nobody on either side wnats violence like this. It goes without saying. Some people turn to violence and they get lumped in with everyone else. This is why people who voted for Trump shouldn't label all protesters violent radicals just because a few of them turn violent--and rightly deserve our scorn. The vast majority of protesters were and are peaceful and are only expressing their disapproval of the president elect's planned policies.

You and I are on similar wavelengths here.

I am happy to see you discussing the topic of labels, because I think that's the next big step in developing our social discourse, and how that development goes will determine our collective future.

See my post at the top of this page (2 posts above) for my comments about that.

Thank you for posting that, it's nice to know I'm not the only one that's seeing major problems with our labeling terminology.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: muzzleflash

so.....
is your friend imaginary or real???

They are (She is) very real.
I'm sorry I didn't express that more properly, I didn't suspect you'd take it that way. Hahah

I wrote this thread for a lot of reasons.

I was refering to my past several threads over the last month or so in my response to ketsuko (in terms of devil's advocate). But this thread was about something that hit a lot closer to home and genuinely disturbed me.

To make it clear, I don't believe that this incident should have a political side or slant.
I believe it's about human decency.
And we should all be on the same side of that:
Against violence.

a reply to: muzzleflash

okay... I just wanted to make sure....
I don't mind worrying about people, but well, it's alot of needless worrying if the person is imaginary.

And we should all be on the same side of that:
Against violence.

I would hope so, but reading through some of the posts on your thread....
I'm kind of baffled, really.
again, I do hope everything turns out okay for her.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

LOL, OK.

Transexuals would beg to differ no?

originally posted by: VengefulGhost
They keep saying they want equal treatment .
Looks like she got equal treatment .

Had it been a man beating a man entire thing would be a non-story .

Equal treatment, as if it's totally okay to deck someone in the face for having a different opinion anyhow. Come on. I can understand getting in his face if he grabbed your partner's rear, because that's defense against assault, but over an opinion? That's ridiculous.

If you think that it's appropriate to hit people for thinking differently than you, that's rather concerning.

a reply to: muzzleflash

There is too much to be sceptical about in these stories. The political stuff seems tacked on, no license plate, no pictures, no video, no credit card, and in a "liberal bubble".

Keep us posted on the outcome.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: muzzleflash

There is too much to be sceptical about in these stories. The political stuff seems tacked on, no license plate, no pictures, no video, no credit card, and in a "liberal bubble".

Keep us posted on the outcome.

I understand.

But skepticism aside, my main message, I believe, stands strong:

Our political turmoil has gone too far and the violence is unacceptable.

Well you got your post on the front page now its time to put up or shut up! Where are the pictures? Honestly hiding behind her wanting to remain anon will not help just take pictures from angles that dont completely show her face!

Basically,
pics or it didnt happen! I know its a jerk thing to say but large claims require large evidence.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: muzzleflash

so.....
is your friend imaginary or real???

No pictures as evidence of course and by his own link the woman said she said to the police she didn't need attention or to go to the hospital. But now after thinking about a lawsuit, it's a vicious beating. Sure snowflake.

Quote from article OP linked to;

The woman did not suffer any visible injuries, and refused medical attention, the police spokesman said.

No visible injuries and refused medical attention. Kind of like the way these snowflakes reacted to the election. Don't like the outcome? Wait a day or so and make a huge deal about nothing!

These Snowflakes are precious in a Lord of the Rings "Precious" sort of way. Sheesh.

Well something happened there, the Bar Tabac has made that clear on their facebook. Bu I need to dig deeper.

So basically she had no visible injuries noticable, didnt go to the hospital, the only real stories about it are from liberal rags. Yet you want people to believe you know her and she was beaten within an inch of her life infront alot of people.

How did this story get to be on the front page I might request hoax binning this thread. Not because i have anything agaisnt battered women or want to get revenge on some liberal members. The story has very little evidence and the actual report is way different then the op suggests.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: muzzleflash

okay... I just wanted to make sure....
I don't mind worrying about people, but well, it's alot of needless worrying if the person is imaginary.

And we should all be on the same side of that:
Against violence.

I would hope so, but reading through some of the posts on your thread....
I'm kind of baffled, really.
again, I do hope everything turns out okay for her.

Next you'll hear it was so bad she needed reconstructive plastic surgery. The story is growing as large a Pinnochios nose and just as believable. I feel another snowflake rally coming on over this, but they are too busy with the primal scream Trump therapy that are getting by a sensitive counselor on campus.

originally posted by: digital01anarchy
So basically she had no visible injuries noticable, didnt go to the hospital, the only real stories about it are from liberal rags. Yet you want people to believe you know her and she was beaten within an inch of her life infront alot of people.

How did this story get to be on the front page I might request hoax binning this thread. Not because i have anything agaisnt battered women or want to get revenge on some liberal members. The story has very little evidence and the actual report is way different then the op suggests.

Send the mods a note. The title is misleading since NO WHERE in the article does it state she got a vicious beating. Even by the women's own words she didn't need attention or to go to the hospital. The officer noticed no signs of visible injury. But, like magic, the next morning she grew a vicious beating. Maybe her own boyfriend is the one that beat her the rest of the way?

Or she could be suffering permanent brain damage, which could lead to complications in the distant future

Sure. Next we'll hear it was Mike Tyson that beat her. Brain damage was suffered by me reading your weak evidence in this thread, which caused me to fall to the floor getting a concussion while laughing uncontrollably.

Anyway someone alert the mods to the intentionally misleading thread Title.

a reply to: worldstarcountry
Notice the Facebook post is in reference to the online article and of course they want to deflect negative publicity.

originally posted by: GraffikPleasure
a reply to: muzzleflash

I wonder what her thoughts were on all the protests before and after her incident.

Hope she is better soon.

Violence from both sides needs to stop. Trumpers are emboldened because they "won" and are tired of the liberal agenda and the liberals are continually crying they lost. If there was so much vitriol for Trump, why were there no protests when he got the nomination.

If it's not your party or the party you plan to support in the election, people could care less who the republicans wanted to give the nomination to and represent them in the general election. Additionally, many thought he wouldn't win, myself included, and thus, never recognized him as a a legitimate threat. So, there's your answer.

a reply to: thepixelpusher

I found one reply to this that stood out to me. Most the women replying express their condolence and give props to the bar in general for denouncing violence. But this one woman just said thank you. Almost as if she personally is thanking them for a favor??

I don't know how to search people on FB without a FB though to see the profile and check the public information on any posts related to the incident. Perhaps she is a witness??

I suspect that there are connections between the store management/ owners and the original source, or the staff anyways. This is like a two hit combo. Advertise your business in the paper AND capitalize on anti-trump sentiment for the paper.... hmmmm

a reply to: poncho1982

Deny Ignorance .