It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Help ATS via PayPal:
learn more

So Who and What is the "Alt-Right?"

page: 3
16
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 07:53 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

Well for one there is no alt-left. Like no one even uses that term and just because someone says alt-right doesn't necessitate that an alt-left also exists. For one the non-mainstream left doesn't want to break the system. It wants to meld and change the system to make it work better. They also don't outright politically reject more moderate left wing people and don't disavow people who compromise.

As much as the more moderate alt-righters don't want to admit it and you don't want to see it either, the alt-right has racist roots. It is EMBRACED by hardcore racists wholeheartedly as their movement. The fact that the moderates are co-opting the movement was 100% intended by them when they made the term and created the movement.

I'd post the evidence but I don't post 4chan or 8chan threads. I guess you could comb the dark recesses of reddit too. In any case, if you TRULY want to get to the bottom of what the alt-right really is you are going to have to hold your nose and get dirty. You are only going to find the sanitized versions from the people who already got dirty ahead of you in the media reports. Many of which will be dismissed by right wingers or just outright distrusted by you because you don't trust that news source.
edit on 15-11-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 07:56 AM
link   

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Boadicea

I think that she even attacked infowars and Alex Jones at one point.


I think you may be right. I confess I didn't pay too much attention to the candidates, because I had no intention of voting for any of them, and I was pretty busy with real life in the weeks before the election. So I missed a lot.


The labeling and associations that go with the labels used to work for the most part.


Yup. I've been labeled in so many different ways that it makes my head spin. Hence, the reason I don't put much stock in labels thrown around. It just means nothing these days.


I think that is how the left found a place but Trump kind of knocked that wall down or at the least put a big crack in it . Our last election that went to a liberal majority might just be the last time the main stream parties rule . Canada is usually a few years behind the states so one can hope .


From your keyboard to God's ears. We're people. All doing our best and trying to muddle through the mess our "leaders" have made for us. That's it.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 07:59 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

There's already some threads on this that go into detail. Breitbart seems to be the self proclaimed home of the alt right.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 08:13 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

There is much I agree with in your statement. And I want to be clear I'm not trying to speak for the other poster.

But I have done enough research to know that the original establishment of the very real and tangible and identifiable "Alternative Right" website (and, presumably, movement) was in fact and in deed by a self-identified White Nationalist.

I have also done enough research to know that the "alt-right" was a general term for anyone and everyone who identified with the right, but with significant differences from the mainstream right. Likewise, anyone and everyone who identifies with the left, but with significant differences from the mainstream left, can also be considered "alt-left." And although I have not seen that term used, it's easy enough to make the leap. And I have seen many many folks on the left say that they were bullied and beaten (figuratively speaking) by others on the left for not adhering to the party lines. So there is the equivalent of the alt-left, even if it isn't referred to as such.

And I have done enough research to know that the term "alt-right" is now being used interchangeably with the term "Alternative Right," despite the differences.

Perhaps most important for my purposes, there always have been and always will be people who do not agree with any and all positions taken by their mainstream party, and therefore there will always be "alt" whatever. It's not fair or just or even true to paint them all with the same brush.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 08:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Boadicea

There's already some threads on this that go into detail.


Yes, I read a couple that I found. Both that I read were from a partisan perspective, and their details were less than complete.


Breitbart seems to be the self proclaimed home of the alt right.


They sure seem to want to be... now. And Richard Spencer of the Alternative Right website sure wants to be as well. I find that disturbing, but I'm glad you pointed it out. It's not just the left embracing that term. I don't know what to make of Breitbart (except that I don't like or trust them). But until I have a better grasp in my own head, I don't want to throw out conjecture.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 08:25 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

I think there is a fine line that might work for alt-right/left . ie. Canada had the Conservative party but there were a lot of conservatives thought that Harper was actually a neo-con . This aspect of neo-liberal/conservatives are the extreme's of both but hide behind the main stream parties because they could never get a big enough base to gain power . They can however work behind the curtains and influence politics and are usually the ones that push the parties politics to the edges . The NDP party took a more central approach and did well but because Canadians were so fed up with Harper the chose Trudeau .Anyone one but Harper and anyone but Clinton will force alternative liberals and conservatives to choose any one but those people . The left by throwing Bernie under the bus had no place to go but to Donald .



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 08:35 AM
link   
a reply to: the2ofusr1

I get exactly what you're saying from all this too. I have long believed that there is a very real faction within partisan politics that work within both parties for the same purpose. Hence the common lament that "both parties are the same" -- because they are!

It is those who dare to step outside the mainstream dialogue that must be neutralized. Both left and right and everything in between and everything beyond. Demonizing and demoralizing seems to be their go-to strategy. Divide-and-conquer.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 08:46 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

That's because, as I stated, the hardcore racists intended for the term to be co-opted by the moderates. Like these are their very own words. I'm not being hyperbolic here. They literally PLANNED this out.

How the Alt-Right Grew From an Obscure Racist Cabal


‘Respectable’ Racism

NPI’s moves come from a well-worn playbook. “The alt-right is just a rebranding of white supremacism for the digital age,” says Mark Potok, senior fellow at SPLC.

Here’s how it works: First, get a likable, accessible frontman. “There’s been a major effort for the last 30 years to make the radical right more respectable, and Spencer is a part of that tradition,” says Potok. Another example would be the KKK’s David Duke, who famously encouraged Klansmen to get “out of the cow pasture and into the hotel meeting room.”
Advertisement

The comparison tracks. NPI held an official press conference in a hotel meeting room just last month. Spencer is polite and square-jawed, with a neat high-and-tight haircut. He doesn’t sneer or curse, and he pitches big ideas about the future—like NPI becoming the alt-right equivalent of the Heritage Foundation, a lynchpin of mainstream conservative thought. “I’m very optimistic about the future of our movement,” he says. “The Heritage Foundation has big physical buildings and scholars, but if you measure dollars to impact, it’s shockingly low. The alt-right’s is shockingly high. It’s low-end disruption.” Very Silicon Valley.

Step two: Clad yourself in the trappings of academia. “People have always tried to give an intellectual foundation to euronationalism,” says Brian Levin, director of CSU San Bernardino’s Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism. Remember phrenology, the bogus science of studying the size and shape of someone’s skull as a predictor of intelligence and character? And how it was really just a bunch of racists poking at people’s heads? Same idea.

Package your most controversial ideas in pseudo-academic arguments, using ornate, polysyllabic, racial-slur free language. It makes people more willing to hear it. And if you do so on a bland website—as NPI has—so much the better. “The ruling, non-discriminatory ideology, that we’ll be a little stronger for the more piquancy of the sauce, is a suicidal ideology,” Spencer says. “The races are not equivalent or interchangeable. The prevailing ideology is one that will lead to the ultimate dispossession of my people and my culture.”



The active version of recruitment is a bit more assertive. Like most of the alt-right, Spencer is very Internet-savvy. He knows that most of his target audience isn’t going to sit down with a tome on the “biological reality of race,” one of Spencer’s recurring phrases. That’s why he has a Twitter account and runs sites like AlternativeRight.com to deliver his ideology in bite-sized chunks. “It only takes a few influencers to make these things take off,” Potok says. “There’s been a major effort from people like Richard Spencer to push out memes like Pepe the Frog or #whitegenocide.”

And the cycle perpetuates. You start seeing posts using Pepe (who has recently joined the swastika and the burning cross on the Anti-Defamation League’s list of hate symbols) or #whitegenocide, and you do some Googling. If you keep at it, you’ll get to articles written by people like the New Century Foundation’s Taylor. “It’s how they downplay how extreme they are,” Gerstenfeld says. “Most people who get interested in these groups aren’t drawn in by the rhetoric. They work their way there slowly.” So while not everyone shouting about cucks on Twitter is a Richard Spencer in the making, a proportion of them probably are.


If you aren't taking notice, this is very real conspiracy theory stuff. These guys are literally trying to rewrite conservatism in their image and they are doing it right under the moderates' noses by getting them to defend their least racially insensitive talking points.

And the people in denial saying this is a left wing creation know this is true. That's why they are in denial. They SEE the ugly side and don't want to admit that they belong to it. Thus it becomes a liberal conspiracy. But the problem is that they are enabling it by denying it.
edit on 15-11-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 08:57 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t


These guys are literally trying to rewrite conservatism in their image and they are doing it right under the moderates' noses by getting them to defend their least racially insensitive talking points.


Thank you for that link. I'll read the entire article when I have a chance.

That puts Breitbart into a little better perspective for me. I did understand that they were very happy to embrace the term -- albeit in a sanitized way acceptable to the moderates, making it all sound so reasonable. In fact, your quotes said what I pretty much thought about Breitbart and its own article. Although I was thinking "weasel words."

Thank you. More to ponder here, and keep in mind as we go forward.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 09:15 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t


And the people in denial saying this is a left wing creation know this is true. That's why they are in denial. They SEE the ugly side and don't want to admit that they belong to it. Thus it becomes a liberal conspiracy. But the problem is that they are enabling it by denying it.


Oh what tangled webs we weave!!!

But I will say this: Many folks, including myself, left the Republican party because they left us. I never thought in terms of being "alt-right," since I had never heard the term, but if I had I might have.

So people like myself do not consider ourselves part of that, much less belonging to it. Exactly the opposite. Many of the former Pubs/now Independents left the party at least in part because of that racist/nationalist mentality. So we reject it because it is not us.

It is quite a conundrum though. Good people who rejected that philosophy and donned a new mantle are now having that mantle re-defined and being tarred with that same brush they tried to walk away from. If they defend themselves, they end up defending that same philosophy they rejected (or what you referred to as "enabling.")

Very tricky. Re-defining words automatically re-defines people. In this case, in the worst way. So much room for mischief and abuse there.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 09:41 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

This is why you should just keep your political identity just to yourself. Everyone has an agenda and very rarely do they align with your agendas. I may align with a political party for an election but I mostly just stay independent and call things like I see them. I research my opinions, look at historical context, and ultimately try to come to a nuanced decision. When you align with a political party, many times you find yourself defending things you find distasteful because of group think mentality.

On the other hand you are now starting to identify why the left is so worried about Donald Trump and the alt-right that supports him. We don't want to give these people more political power in the country and they see Trump as a shortcut to achieving that (and his appointment of Bannon is probably being seen by them as the confirmation they ultimately needed).
edit on 15-11-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 09:45 AM
link   
The alt-right phrase was used as a pejorative, and piece of ad hominem, against Trump and his supporters. There is no actual group of the alt-right, by the fact that they have no leader, no meetings, no membership process, no common cause, no common ideology, nothing in common besides that they supported Donald Trump.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 09:47 AM
link   
The alt-right is not a fabrication.

Racist organizations proudly brandish the label.

The alt-right is the hidden faction that has been apart of the Republican party for a long time hidden in plain sight from the good non-racist Republicans.

The good natured fiscal conservatives didn't know for years there were wolves in sheep's clothing all around them. Trump allowed them to take their costumes off.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 09:48 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

From what I understand it to be, it's like your OP says--a loose group of people with right-leaning idea(l)s that don't want to claim conformity with establishment Repubs or Conservatives.

And, much like what happened with/to the Tea Party movement, they (the mainstream media, far-left people/groups, and establishment parties) are trying to demean and destroy any legitimacy to the movement/group of people because it threatens the status quo.

Basically, the alt-right is a group of individuals who really don't feel like they have a home in the main two political parties. I have found my home (generally) in libertarian ideals, but many are nervous about attaching themselves to that moniker because it, too, has been trivialized by the three groups that I've already mentioned.

Right now, the alt-right is a life boat for people who have either abandoned the ship of fools (establishment politics) or were forced to walk the plank because of changing ideologies, and they're adrift in a sea of insults awaiting a rescue vessel. Yes, there are all kinds of people on this life boat--white-nationalist/supremacist types included--but they are not one general group with a set ideology, and to treat them as such only serves to denigrate the group to keep the status quo seemingly more legitimate as an option (which it's increasingly becoming apparent that it's not a legit option anymore).

My take on it, anyhow.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:25 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

There is much truth and wisdom in your words... especially regarding not aligning oneself with any group...

Let me ask you this: In your opinion, from where you're sitting and watching, do you think the big "A" Alt-Right is trying to replace the Republican party? Or are they trying to re-define it and take it over? Or just trying to re-define it period? Or something else entirely?



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:33 AM
link   

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
The alt-right phrase was used as a pejorative, and piece of ad hominem, against Trump and his supporters. There is no actual group of the alt-right, by the fact that they have no leader, no meetings, no membership process, no common cause, no common ideology, nothing in common besides that they supported Donald Trump.


I don't disagree... but some -- like Breitbart and the National Policy Institute -- do seem to have a rather (if not very) specific agenda to change that. Which is my biggest concern at this point. I would say without a doubt that it would be impossible to pigeonhole all Trump supporters into ANY single category or label (other than that they all supported Trump). But others on both sides are trying to do exactly that.

I'm sure the ones on the right would love to have the credibility and legitimacy of every Trump supporter following their racist/nationalist agenda. It wouldn't be true, but they could sure exploit that...



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:38 AM
link   

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
The alt-right is not a fabrication.

Racist organizations proudly brandish the label.

The alt-right is the hidden faction that has been apart of the Republican party for a long time hidden in plain sight from the good non-racist Republicans.


I would only disagree to the extent that it was the capital "A" Alternative Right which has been hiding in the Republican part... previously, I believe the little "a" alt-right were the good non-racist Republicans.


The good natured fiscal conservatives didn't know for years there were wolves in sheep's clothing all around them. Trump allowed them to take their costumes off.


They do seem to be encouraged to show their true colors now.

Perhaps that's a good thing. Get it out of the shadows and we can deal with it. My heart believes that most people do not subscribe to their ugliness and will reject them out of hand -- at least once they see it with their own eyes.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:40 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

My belief is that they are trying to redefine racism/bigotry to be palatable to the mainstream. They recognize that yelling slurs and being a general racist douche doesn't get much love anymore. So instead they have used tactics and propaganda to redefine how racism is distributed. This gets more people involved with their cause, which in turn increases the hardcore supporter membership.

Their end game is anyone's guess but I wouldn't be surprised if they are trying to take over the Republican party. It would make sense given Bannon's ambitions as well as tendency to attack any Republican who doesn't toe the alt-right line.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:42 AM
link   

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Boadicea

From what I understand it to be, it's like your OP says--a loose group of people with right-leaning idea(l)s that don't want to claim conformity with establishment Repubs or Conservatives.

And, much like what happened with/to the Tea Party movement, they (the mainstream media, far-left people/groups, and establishment parties) are trying to demean and destroy any legitimacy to the movement/group of people because it threatens the status quo.

Basically, the alt-right is a group of individuals who really don't feel like they have a home in the main two political parties. I have found my home (generally) in libertarian ideals, but many are nervous about attaching themselves to that moniker because it, too, has been trivialized by the three groups that I've already mentioned.

Right now, the alt-right is a life boat for people who have either abandoned the ship of fools (establishment politics) or were forced to walk the plank because of changing ideologies, and they're adrift in a sea of insults awaiting a rescue vessel. Yes, there are all kinds of people on this life boat--white-nationalist/supremacist types included--but they are not one general group with a set ideology, and to treat them as such only serves to denigrate the group to keep the status quo seemingly more legitimate as an option (which it's increasingly becoming apparent that it's not a legit option anymore).

My take on it, anyhow.


Very well said. That is how I see it. And it deserves repeating.

I will only expand on your words to say that these folks are being exploited by both the left and the right -- the "establishment politics" in your words.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:47 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, I agree, it's anyone's guess at this point, but some things just point to certain natural conclusions.

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time and making the effort to discuss this with me. All of which I will keep in mind as we go forward.

Right now I am just very disheartened and very discouraged by all this crap... but I am also heartened and hopeful that by facing it head-on and getting past all the propaganda and rhetoric and emotion that we can deal with it effectively.



new topics

top topics



 
16
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join