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Church vs. State in the USA

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posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: Rapha

At some point I would like to see Trump resign, or face impeachment, but that would put Pence in, which is equally as unpalatable.




posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:28 AM
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originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: Annee

How far should the American culture deviate from Christianity? I see almost zero Christian influence at this point. Where do you see this danger? How is Christianity effecting and affecting your life?


Whoa slow down dude. First off, the "War on Christianity" is a right wing bogeyman invented by them as yet another way to demonize the left. Keep in mind that the majority of the left is Christian as well. Atheists make up a really small percentage.

What the left always gets up in arms about is when Christianity imposes its dogma or beliefs but doesn't allow for other beliefs to be represented either. Or when Christians put up a monument to Christianity (say a statue of the Ten Commandments) outside of a public building. In that case it is a violation of the First Amendment. However, Christians interpret this as an attack on their religion and say the left is trying to destroy Christianity. But again most of the left are Christians too. They just don't need to shove their religion into their political lives.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:29 AM
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originally posted by: PageLC14

You think my child missing one shot is a threat to you or your children?


Remember now, I am not trying to be antagonistic.

Yes. I think your child missing a required shot is a threat to other children.

Your child may be a special individual to you - - - but, in PUBLIC school, just part the whole.

And, I want to make it clear I support Public schools 100%. They may not be perfect, but they do guarantee every child a basic education. Not every country is this fortunate.

BTW - - I am 70. Raised 2 daughters, helped raise a now 23 year old grandson, and am now raising an 8 year old grandson (with his mom, dad died of cancer).

My 8 year old has all his shots, but we have had letters from the school that he was missing shots. We either got the shot or provided printed info from his doctor of his inoculation record.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:29 AM
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originally posted by: Rapha

originally posted by: Fools
and if you fail to pay those taxes they will take your property. Government requires you obey its rules or it will make you suffer and possibly imprison you if you fail to do so.

Lol.

Like you said, many religions give you a choice. However, Islam states you either follow their laws or lose your head.

Looks like Islam is a form of Government control after all and America just invited it in, free of charge.

Too bad that conflicts with the 1st Amendment so it doesn't get enforced here (not to mention that declaring that all Muslims believe the same exact dogma is just ludicrous). Which is how so many American Muslims are able to exist in the country.
edit on 15-11-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:32 AM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Rapha

At some point I would like to see Trump resign, or face impeachment, but that would put Pence in, which is equally as unpalatable.



I agree. Pence is way too Fundamental for the position of president in my opinion. We don't need another Gut Feeling Christian Crusade.

There are many opinions that Trump won't make the full 4 years. It's not something I'm going to personally speculate on.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: PageLC14

Next time you want to freak out about my 5 year old missing one lousy shot, consider how many children are possibly attending your kids school without ANY shots at all simply because the parents didn't feel right about it.


It is not me who is freaking out.

I've been very pragmatic in my posts.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:38 AM
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nm



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: Annee

Forcing my child to say "under God" in a pledge he's to young to understand.

Wouldn't be an issue if the kid wasn't forced to be in the damn school in the first place.

The irony.


We are fortunate in being a country that offers Public education to EVERY child.

Rich, poor, immigrant, non-English speaking, any religious belief, non-religious belief, skin color, race, gender, gender variant, disabled, mentally disabled, culture, etc.

I support PUBLIC School 100%



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:49 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
But all Christian sects voted for Trump by large margins.


Are they blind, deaf, and illiterate?

I was listening to a radio talk show. They were interviewing Christians on why they were voting for Trump with all these allegations.

"Jesus says to forgive - - we forgive him"




posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 11:01 AM
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originally posted by: Rapha

Like you said, many religions give you a choice. However, Islam states you either follow their laws or lose your head.



You think Dominionists wouldn't do the same if they could get full control of the American government.

Our history is not so pure.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: Annee
You think Dominionists wouldn't do the same if they could get full control of the American government.

Our history is not so pure.

Pence is a Jesuit who will gladly obey all orders from the False prophet Jesuit Pope of Rome. So when the Jesuits remove Trump, its going to be another Catholic Crusade bloodbath, worldwide.

The Jesuits have orders from Lucifer to obey. This is why they have orchestrated Albert Pikes WW3 with Islam against Christianity since Gulf War I 1991.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Yes yes, very pragmatic. I was only trying to clarify to you that my daughter IS up to date with every shot. Her pediatrician had faxed the school an old list of her shots so a few were missing.

My child is special, of course, but in no way have I tried making a point of it.


My point, was the HASSLE I had to deal with because of communication issues between the school and her doctor.

What about that bit I said about the states' laws regarding vaccination exemption and how my sister's children are allowed to attend school without having been administered a single vaccination? Considering the amount of parents who decline vaccines due to a number of reasons nowadays, I'm sure there are quite a few of these children who Attend your grandsons elementary.

Why the hassle with me and my child's one missing vaccine when the state is fine allowing unvaccinated children as long as they have a note saying it's for philosophical reasons?
edit on 15-11-2016 by PageLC14 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: Fools


Church vs. State in the USA


It is up to the individual to choose a belief, whatever it may (or may not) be. The moment that anything is outlawed, is the moment this nation has come to an end.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: PageLC14

What about that bit I said about the states' laws regarding vaccination exemption and how my sister's children are allowed to attend school without having been administered a single vaccination?


That is changing. I'm not up on exact states, but at least one (probably more) have removed the religious exemptions.

The only exemptions would be for a very ill child, where a vaccination could kill them.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: Annee

How far should the American culture deviate from Christianity? I see almost zero Christian influence at this point. Where do you see this danger? How is Christianity effecting and affecting your life?


Wait, almost zero influence? LOL

1. 12 States still have anti-sodomy laws (HERE). Why?

2. American marriage is only enforced between 2 people, with multiple marriages at the same time being illegal. Why?

3. Polygamy is still illegal in all 50 States, though Utah gets around it. Why?

4. Gambling and prostitution are still illegal in most States. Why?

5. 33 States still allow the prohibition of alcohol, with many counties still being completely "dry" (HERE). Why?

6. Many states have passed "religious freedom" laws which allow doctors, therapists, and much more to deny service to customers based on their religious beliefs. These laws are recent, so I'm a bit surprised that you've already forgotten them. Here's an article from this year that lists the new laws passed in 11 States on the matter. HERE You Go

7. Have you heard of "Dominionism/Dominion Theology"? There's an entire branch of American conservatives who consider themselves Dominionists, including Sen Ted Cruz (whose whole campaign was based on Dominion Theology).

8. George W. Bush literally called the "War on Terrorism" a "New Crusade"; some of our military's weapons were inscribed with Bible codes during the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (HERE); our currency and "pledge of allegiance include God in them; and our entire govt's pro-Israel stance is based on Israelis being the Jewish "Chosen People" who've returned to Israel in order to fulfill Judeo-Christian prophecy. Do you really think this is a coincidence?

9. Why don't most businesses or local and state government agencies work on the Sabbath (Sunday)? Coincidence too?

Even many of the things we consider "crimes" are found in Judeo-Christian law, such as lying, stealing, killing, etc. They can be found in other religions as well, but you can't seriously think our politicians make these laws based on Islamic or Buddhist "values", do you?
edit on 15-11-2016 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: Annee

"Offers"?

Lol.




posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 12:10 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Wait, almost zero influence? LOL 

1. 12 States still have anti-sodomy laws (HERE). Why? 

I am sure those will be withdrawn since gay male marriage union will be illegal due to the way they have to procreate.

2. American marriage is only enforced between 2 people, with multiple marriages at the same time being illegal. Why? 

I am sure once democrats run the show again you will be able to marry your sister, cat, donkey, car, whatever. Here is a question for you, why is the government involved in marriage at all?

3. Polygamy is still illegal in all 50 States, though Utah gets around it. Why? 

Polygamy is illegal in Utah. Those that practice it get around it the same way that people do in the other 49 states.

4. Gambling and prostitution are still illegal in most States. Why?

 Why not? I guess it is because the people that live in those areas don't want it to be legal. That is why sweeping Federal power is not a good thing. It forces things on local populations that they do not want.

5. 33 States still allow the prohibition of alcohol, with many counties still being completely "dry" (HERE). Why? 

Same as number four.

6. Many states have passed "religious freedom" laws which allow doctors, therapists, and much more to deny service to customers based on their religious beliefs. These laws are recent, so I'm a bit surprised that you've already forgotten them. Here's an article from this year that lists the new laws passed in 11 States on the matter. HERE You Go 

I will have to research this.

7. Have you heard of "Dominionism/Dominion Theology"? There's an entire branch of American conservatives who consider themselves Dominionists, including Sen Ted Cruz (whose whole campaign was based on Dominion Theology). 

I will have to research this.

8. George W. Bush literally called the "War on Terrorism" a "New Crusade"; some of our military's weapons were inscribed with Bible codes during the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (HERE); our currency and "pledge of allegiance include God in them; and our entire govt's pro-Israel stance is based on Israelis being the Jewish "Chosen People" who've returned to Israel in order to fulfill Judeo-Christian prophecy. Do you really think this is a coincidence? 

I think its more of an autistic like problem some people have taking everything someone says literally.

On money, "In god we trust", I just don't care.

Israel, I do care. I have been to Israel and it is a nice place (at least where I was) and I was impressed the way it looks compared to the other countries that surround it. That being said, I do not believe that we should be paying either them or Egypt the amount of money we pay them to keep them from going to war with each other. Nor should Israel, or any state for that matter be allowed to influence the decisions of politicians here. Is this whole issue caused by religious beliefs? I think on this one there is some validity.

9. Why don't most businesses or local and state government agencies work on the Sabbath (Sunday)? Coincidence too? 

Yeah, I wish that every business had to shut down at least one day a week. The whole 24/7 thing is annoying.

Even many of the things we consider "crimes" are found in Judeo-Christian law, such as lying, stealing, killing, etc. They can be found in other religions as well, but you can't seriously think our politicians make these laws based on Islamic or Buddhist "values", do you?

Well should they derive them from other sources? And actually you are incorrect about American rule of law. It has more sources based in Roman Pagan law more than it does Biblical law.


edit on 16-11-2016 by Fools because: that



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: Fools



1. I am sure those will be withdrawn since gay male marriage union will be illegal due to the way they have to procreate.

Sorry, but saying "I am sure" doesn't invalidate what is actually legal or illegal or why it's legal or illegal. It's illegal in those States because of their leadership's Christian beliefs. I'm sure you've heard of the "Bible Belt", right? And I'm sure you've heard the anti-LGBT joke "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve", right? Are you claiming that view has nothing to do with Christianity?



2. I am sure once democrats run the show again you will be able to marry your sister, cat, donkey, car, whatever. Here is a question for you, why is the government involved in marriage at all?

"I'm sure" again? That's just your opinion. But our marriage laws are based on the Christian concept of marriage. This was also the reason why so many states were against gay marriage, saying marriage should be between a man and a woman. Now why did they argue that again?



3. Polygamy is illegal in Utah. Those that practice it get around it the same way that people do in the other 49 states.

But why is it illegal in the first place? It's because our marriage laws are still based on the Christian concept of marriage, which is between 1 man and 1 woman. Some States rejected the "1 man, 1 woman" part and the Supreme Court recently rejected it as well. But it doesn't change the fact that it's still based in Christian concepts, which the anti-polygamy laws still reflect.



4. Why not? I guess it is because the people that live in those areas don't want it to be legal. That is why sweeping Federal power is not a good thing. It forces things on local populations that they do not want.

Don't move the goalposts. You claimed there was almost zero Christian influence on the country. So I showed you yet 2 more examples of them. Now you're trying to change the subject and make this a federal govt vs State govt thing (while once again adding your opinion "I guess" instead of facts). I don't have a problem with individual States tailoring their laws to fit their population's wants to an extent. But to pretend that they aren't banning prostitution and gambling because of their religious beliefs is preposterous.

Have you actually been to the Southeast/"Bible Belt"? People will tell you flat out that Christianity drives them in life, including politicians. Just look at any of their local and State politicians' campaign ads and then come back & pretend that they aren't using their view of Christianity as a basis for their laws.



5. Same as number four.

Same as the last answer.



6. I will have to research this.

Please do. Those laws alone should make it clear that different versions of Christianity still have a lot of influence here.



7. I will have to research this.





8. I think its more of an autistic like problem some people have taking everything someone says literally.

So you can't just admit you're wrong and instead have to make insults? Though I'll return the last part back to you. Do you take your political "opponents" literally when they say something you don't agree with? Or do you give them the same benefit of the doubt that you're expecting us to give in these examples?

If foreign fighters have Quranic verses inscribed on their weapons and their leaders say they're waging a "New Crusade" while only attacking Christian-majority countries, would you still think it was simply an "autistic like problem of taking everything someone says literally"? If not, you're being a hypocrite.



On money, "In god we trust", I just don't care.

But it's not about you. You claimed there was almost zero Christian influence, even though these examples say otherwise. If our currency instead said "In Allah We Trust", would you also say Islam had zero influence on our country? Or would you claim it was proof of "creeping Sharia"?



Nor should Israel, or any state for that matter be allowed to influence the decisions of politicians here. Is this whole issue caused by religious beliefs? I think on this one there is some validity.





9. Well should they derive them from other sources? And actually you are incorrect about American rule of law. It has more sources based in Roman Pagan law more than it does Biblical law.

Naw buddy, you said almost zero influence. I know for a fact that our laws are based on a lot of different sources that aren't Christian. But I also know for a fact that many of them also have their bases in Christianity. Had you simply said that Christianity's influence was declining, I wouldn't have responded. But you greatly exaggerated how little of an influence Christianity still has, hence my response.
edit on 16-11-2016 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2016 @ 01:05 PM
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I am studying, will answer in time.

One question, so as a Muslim (it seems), do you find Sharia a threat to secular states?




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