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Trump wants to eliminate overtime rules

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posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

You realize most economists think they get hurt more right? It will result in less full time low wage employees and more part time low wage employees. Alternatively, it could simply result in a drastic reduction in base salary so that it evens out even with overtime in the end. That's why Republicans want it phased in over years instead of months. They want employers to be able to have time to plan changes to business infrastructure.

Edit: Here is a good source you may accept: PBS


But as with any regulation, if it seems to be too good to be true, it probably is, said Veronique de Rugy, a senior research fellow at the market-oriented Mercatus Center at George Mason University.

“I think when you hear of regulations that sound good, it is important to ask, what is going to be the actual effect? Are there unintended consequences?”

The National Retail Federation estimated the new rule will cost the restaurant and retail industries about $745 million (though that calculation was done before the new rules were finalized and was based on on a predicted $50,440 salary threshold.) The Department of Labor estimates compliance will cost employers $255 million.

“Labor is a good or a service like everything else. When its price goes up, the demand goes down,” said de Rugy.
“The regulation demonstrates this administration’s determination to control employers instead of creating conditions for economic growth,” said Randy Johnson of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

Likewise, de Rugy’s review of the literature suggests such regulations will have an overall negative effect on employment that will be felt over time.

While de Rugy conceded that in some situations, employers might decide to hire more workers, in other situations, she believes workers will lose out. Companies could decide to set the hourly rate lower for new hires in order to save costs. That, she said, would hurt low-wage workers the most. And there could be other unintended consequences: companies could give workers making more than the threshold more responsibility and hours. Or employers could simply reduce benefits, such as health insurance and pensions, or lower base salaries.


I doubt you have employees like you claim. If you did you would understand what is being discussed.

Another source: CNN


Pay won't be better: Employers say many workers actually won't get paid any more than they are today, and may in fact be paid less.

Career prospects may be hurt: Newly overtime-eligible workers may lose out on opportunities to expand their careers, said David French, a spokesman for the National Retail Federation.

Those affected will feel demoted: Those who have previously been treated as exempt from overtime will now have to track hours worked, break times and meal times.

There will be less flexibility: Among benefits that may be lost, employers warn, is flexibility -- to attend to personal business during the day or to work from home.


That article also makes the point brought up to you several times. Many low wage but full time employees are actually SALARY, and the law does nothing for those people.


For instance, employers aren't required to convert their salaried, newly overtime-eligible workers to hourly employees.

edit on 14-11-2016 by raymundoko because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 12:42 PM
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originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: Indigo5

You realize most economists think they get hurt more right? It will result in less full time low wage employees and more part time low wage employees.


Wait...after denying for several posts that this was reality...You are now saying it is real, but it is GOOD for the working class?????????????

Go ahead and sell that...The GOP getting rid of your overtime pay is actually good for you.

I am actually not even angry...just happy that the working class will soon see what a GOP monopoly on gov looks like.

Starting with those coal miners that Trump pandered to asking in-between coughs what happened to their pay check.

It's going to be an interesting few years.



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

The GOP isn't getting rid of overtime pay. We already debunked that bit for you, I am sorry you can't read. Your own source debunked your rhetoric.

Again, since you keep missing it:


Instead, some lobbyists expect Congress to pass a legislative compromise that would rein in the overtime rule, by phasing it in over a number of years, and by limiting or undoing the automatic upward adjustment in the salary threshold every three years

edit on 14-11-2016 by raymundoko because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5




Low wage earners are going to get effed. Feel free to defend that, I am book-marking this page and your posts to cite your BS cheering of it when we see it happen Q1 next year.


Thanks for another opinion. You can write it down, take a picture or screenshot it. Makes no difference to me. I will always defend less government regulation.



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: raymundoko

You are claiming that SOME THINK Trump will drown it in the bath-tub slowly vs. lop it's head off, that somehow that means he isn't doing it?

There is some serious brain rot going on...Hope you recover.



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 12:54 PM
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originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
a reply to: Indigo5




Low wage earners are going to get effed. Feel free to defend that, I am book-marking this page and your posts to cite your BS cheering of it when we see it happen Q1 next year.


Thanks for another opinion. You can write it down, take a picture or screenshot it. Makes no difference to me. I will always defend less government regulation.



Back to you when this sh&^ show arrives in the oval office and starts to make his pandering to lobbyists real.
edit on 14-11-2016 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

I am dumbfounded by your density. The quote does not say the will let it drown in a bathtub. It says they will KEEP the regulation, but change how quickly it takes effect. Are you reading it backwards? The only part they want to prevent is the automatic increase every 3 years.

You still have YET to provide any source which quotes Trump. At this point I think you've been thoroughly exposed as a fraud. This was a very sad attempt by you. Try harder next time.
edit on 14-11-2016 by raymundoko because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: raymundoko

The "Phase In" plan was already proposed in bills multiple times and shot down by the GOP who wanted it nixed altogether.

Unless you can give me a reason why they would not do that now, I have no reason to believe it will happen.

BTW - When it said "Some people think it will be phased in"...those were Blue Dog Democrats that proposed phase in...not GOP..



To appreciate how much the system is “out of whack,” Weil said, consider this: In 1975, 62 percent of full-time salaried workers were eligible for time-and-a-half pay; currently, just 7 percent of workers are eligible.

www.dallasnews.com...


edit on 14-11-2016 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 02:02 PM
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originally posted by: Kettu
I fully expect to see faith and support for Walmart to skyrocket. Soon Walmart will be considered the "bestest" place in America to work.
"Feel lucky for those meager table scraps you peasant!"
America, you're sick and in need of help.

In my small city in OK nearly all the business is retail with some exceptions. Factory jobs, most warehousing jobs, and the various 'energy industries' jobs that filled the 30s-70s are gone. All the retail as well as much of the other stuff that isn't management, is minimum wage and less than full time to avoid overtime and medical benefits. Walmart, however, starts $2-3 above minimum wage depending on position, and has quite a few full time positions or nearly so. People here *want* to work at Walmart because unless you have a degree as well as its attendent utterly massive debt -- which is more money than it costs to buy a simple house in some areas around here -- that's the best opportunity. It also has a fairly constant push toward higher positions that once someone is a low level manager could get them a job in some other retail business that will skip edu for experience. The gripe about WM nationwide is that "people can work there and still be on food stamps the pay is so bad" but the pay is worse if you're not white collar most everywhere else here.

The REAL issue is that the economy is so bad that you would need food stamps to survive even while working full time. Remember not long ago the big outcry about how a full time job at minimum wage was not survival wages. The argument was that retail (like food etc.) was not intended to support an adult, it was only intended to be a fun part time job after school. Funny, I don't recall hearing that argument in the previous 50-odd years of my life. But let us pretend that this is not a rationalization for a suckey economy.

The other issue overlooked here is this: a> our country has lost many tens of millions of jobs, and b> where most of these jobs have been lost is at the "commoner" level as europe might call it. And then some years ago there was a big recession for quite some time, and further jobs lost in that were greatest the lower the edu level you went. Not long ago, there was allegedly an improvement, but the jobs 'regained' were mostly at the top tier (4+ year degree), about half that at the middle tier (2 year degree or trade certificate), and almost none (something like 80K nationally) at the bottom level (HSE). And that bottom level had been the one that lost so, so much before. And that had also been the level that has lost most of the jobs over the last 50 years. Call centers, manufacturing plants, and all of the warehouses and copy machine makers and more that serve such businesses, gone.

The edu system, rather than being an opportunity, has been enveloped into the corporatist regime, until now you "have" to actually indebt yourself for life in order to get a degree, and if you don't, you're doomed evermore. Even most "online" school costs insane amounts, even trade schools are part of the "student loan" cabal and you might as well do college if you have a little more time for the cost. Further, because the economy is so bad at the middle to lower level, you can't afford to take 4 years to do school, because you can't afford to live and eat -- if people cannot work full time and exist, how do you work and go to school and afford it? And if the economy's that bad, that means a lot fewer parents who have money for college or even who have money to support other adults easily while they go to school even were it local and free.

This is the reality in my small city in the reddest red-state in the nation. College is mostly unaffordable, jobs you can live on don't exist without it, except jobs often still don't exist even WITH it -- it's merely "better chance" is all, plenty of people around have degrees and all their debt and still can't find a job easy to live on let alone pay the debt on (without needing to pay it off over 300 years). I'm close to many people who are in the age 18-25 range and this is their frustrated reality -- but now it is the frustrated reality for nearly everybody who loses a job for any reason and either isn't already management, or doesn't want to or can't go be a manager at McDonald's.

What Trump is trying to do -- and this absolutely will "sometimes" be a problem in "some" situations -- is free up the economical climate to encourage more small business. In case it isn't clear, small business is the lifeblood of the country in terms of what grows, what innovates, and the numbers that increase when an economy is improving and technology or culture is changing. In the USA, as of a few years ago:
Over 50% of the working population (120 mil) works in a small business.
Over 65% of the net new jobs since 1995 are from small business.
About 52% of all 'small business' is home-based.
those stats are from Forbes.com www.forbes.com...

Small businesses are the ones that most NEED people to be working overtime. Larger businesses can afford more personnel on hand to cover it, or resource out to subcontractors who handle that. Small businesses usually have a more irregular workstream, with often a faster growth or decline rate. Often employers could pay more but if you aren't making enough for salary consistently you're hourly, and if you're hourly you can't work over 40 hours without the employer penalized for it -- though this is rewarding the employee too of course (but then, the endless gradient tax laws mean a greater % of not only that extra money, but ALL the money on that paycheck, is lost) (he is attempting to simplify that as well, so that would not be the case except rarely if you were right on the edge).

When work increases -- or personnel decreases -- both of which are real issues for small biz (the smaller the moreso), it would be nice if an employer could say, ten more hours a week if someone can, we don't have enough hours to merit a whole 'nuther employee but we need the work done. Right now they can't afford to say that, so they mostly pretend it's all fine, and the existing employees simply try to do the work anyway in the time they've got, or don't officially report overtime because they need to keep their job and don't want to either violate policy or seem like a whiner.

Big companies it's another story. Small biz, though, really needs the option. I agree it's a hazard and can be abused, absolutely, but this is really the trade-off with "Freedom" across the board in everything -- from business, to weapons, to schooling -- everything you "set free" both creates a lot of opportunity and flexibility, but also creates risk from people abusing that flexibility.

RC



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: RedCairo

Woah guy! Nobody wants your real stories. Just let them assume you are racist please, it makes it easier.



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 02:57 PM
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You are all crazy. This is about a new DOL law and FLSA. FLSA It is how you as an employer can pay Overtime in different ways. Obamas administration passed some laws that but the minimum for exempt employees. It will hurt small businesses in the end and again, like Obamacare and its fine, put more out of work which will create more part time supervisory positions. I am teaching clients about this law right now. Not end of the world but some major job shift.

The only thing the Trump administration could do is as the 'new' DOL put forth new legislation that would at least a few years to put in play.

No one is losing money folks...chill out. Besides, with the taxcuts people will not need to work as much OT.



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: CB328


I didn't see anything in that poorly written and pathetic websites article of Trump saying no to overtime pay! Care to back your statement up with a better source or are you just trolling because your angry?

All I see are blocks of opinion with what this website is saying Trump said without ANYTHING to back it up!

Christ, is this another Zikavirusmap outbreak?

Roll back overtime regulation

"And there are 85 million hard working Americans who would agree with that," Trump said.

"We have to address the issues of over-taxation and over-regulation and the lack of access to credit markets to get our small business owners thriving again. Rolling back the overtime regulation is just one example of the many regulations that need to be addressed to do that. We would love to see a delay or a carve-out of sorts for our small business owners."

HEY KNUCKLE HEAD these are quotes from the video you did not watch.



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: SmilingROB

Can you read? Nowhere in that quote does he endorse removing overtime pay.



posted on Nov, 14 2016 @ 07:51 PM
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originally posted by: RedCairo
The edu system, rather than being an opportunity, has been enveloped into the corporatist regime, until now you "have" to actually indebt yourself for life in order to get a degree, and if you don't, you're doomed evermore. Even most "online" school costs insane amounts, even trade schools are part of the "student loan" cabal and you might as well do college if you have a little more time for the cost. Further, because the economy is so bad at the middle to lower level, you can't afford to take 4 years to do school, because you can't afford to live and eat -- if people cannot work full time and exist, how do you work and go to school and afford it? And if the economy's that bad, that means a lot fewer parents who have money for college or even who have money to support other adults easily while they go to school even were it local and free.


College isn't as big a debt trap as you make it sound, but you have to buy smart. In some fields the name of the school matters but in other fields it doesn't. For example, with Computer Science it doesn't matter where you go, employers just want the skills. So you can attend community college for 2 years, get a degree, get your electives/gen ed out of the way, then attend a cheap university in your state (most states have something like a 2+2 program). If you're in a field that doesn't care about your school, that's all you have to do. If the name of the school matters, then transfer for a low cost junior year, then transfer to a big school for your final year when you actually get the degree.

If you're low income you should be able to attend nearly free due to Pell Grants, if you're not low income you have nothing to complain about in the first place. Living expenses can be covered by loans, and if you can swing it, a part time job.

This might not work for people under 25 (who are at the mercy of their parents generosity), but it will for anyone over 25. Your state probably even has job training grants in that case.

Oh, and stay away from the online schools, they're all scams. Even the legitimate schools are more expensive than the lower priced universities in your state, and they have fewer financing options with a worse learning environment.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 04:56 AM
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originally posted by: SmilingROB

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: CB328


I didn't see anything in that poorly written and pathetic websites article of Trump saying no to overtime pay! Care to back your statement up with a better source or are you just trolling because your angry?

All I see are blocks of opinion with what this website is saying Trump said without ANYTHING to back it up!

Christ, is this another Zikavirusmap outbreak?

Roll back overtime regulation

"And there are 85 million hard working Americans who would agree with that," Trump said.

"We have to address the issues of over-taxation and over-regulation and the lack of access to credit markets to get our small business owners thriving again. Rolling back the overtime regulation is just one example of the many regulations that need to be addressed to do that. We would love to see a delay or a carve-out of sorts for our small business owners."

HEY KNUCKLE HEAD these are quotes from the video you did not watch.

Hey knuckle head, he's talking about a useless regulation created by the Obama administration, not labor law involving overtime.

Harte



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 08:36 AM
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originally posted by: Kettu
Hold on to your pay stubs folks, this is just the beginning!

Back to the coal mines with all of us! Back to the company store!

All hail our employer overlords!

Thanks Trump!


At first I thought the same thing. However, the company store problem already exists. So that's a red herring in your argument.

I think many workers would prefer to work as many hours as they can. So in the short term it may be in the worker's benefit. I think not having any of these rules might lead to more competition in attracting workers. I think the biggest problem workers are having is wage stagnation. There simply isn't any consumer demand in this economy to drive up wages. It seems to me we've been on the edge of deflation for years. Any change in labor policy that pumps some cash into the demand side of the economy will be good thing for everyone.

About the company store. The problems with our country are not rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. So everyone is forced to shop at the company store which is driving the middle class deeper and deeper into poverty wages. How much we pay in taxes is kind of irrelevant when you take into account the non-free markets creating a company store economy. It doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. What does matter is the purchasing power of your take home pay. And without the power of BIG government the consumer/worker doesn't stand a chance against the corporations. Money talks, BS walks. And the lobbyist have ALL the representation in Washington. I know a lot of people are hopeful about the Trump presidency. But I doubt very much that anything will ever change. In the last 50 years there has only been one 4 year period were the purchasing power of the median worker's wage actually increased (1996-2000). It will be another 100 years before it ever turns around.
edit on 15-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: typos



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 09:19 AM
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originally posted by: RedCairo
In my small city in OK nearly all the business is retail with some exceptions. Factory jobs, most warehousing jobs, and the various 'energy industries' jobs that filled the 30s-70s are gone. All the retail as well as much of the other stuff that isn't management, is minimum wage and less than full time to avoid overtime and medical benefits. Walmart, however, starts $2-3 above minimum wage depending on position, and has quite a few full time positions or nearly so. People here *want* to work at Walmart because unless you have a degree as well as its attendent utterly massive debt -- which is more money than it costs to buy a simple house in some areas around here -- that's the best opportunity. It also has a fairly constant push toward higher positions that once someone is a low level manager could get them a job in some other retail business that will skip edu for experience. The gripe about WM nationwide is that "people can work there and still be on food stamps the pay is so bad" but the pay is worse if you're not white collar most everywhere else here.

The REAL issue is that the economy is so bad that you would need food stamps to survive even while working full time. Remember not long ago the big outcry about how a full time job at minimum wage was not survival wages. The argument was that retail (like food etc.) was not intended to support an adult, it was only intended to be a fun part time job after school. Funny, I don't recall hearing that argument in the previous 50-odd years of my life. But let us pretend that this is not a rationalization for a suckey economy.

The other issue overlooked here is this: a> our country has lost many tens of millions of jobs, and b> where most of these jobs have been lost is at the "commoner" level as europe might call it. And then some years ago there was a big recession for quite some time, and further jobs lost in that were greatest the lower the edu level you went. Not long ago, there was allegedly an improvement, but the jobs 'regained' were mostly at the top tier (4+ year degree), about half that at the middle tier (2 year degree or trade certificate), and almost none (something like 80K nationally) at the bottom level (HSE). And that bottom level had been the one that lost so, so much before. And that had also been the level that has lost most of the jobs over the last 50 years. Call centers, manufacturing plants, and all of the warehouses and copy machine makers and more that serve such businesses, gone.

The edu system, rather than being an opportunity, has been enveloped into the corporatist regime, until now you "have" to actually indebt yourself for life in order to get a degree, and if you don't, you're doomed evermore. Even most "online" school costs insane amounts, even trade schools are part of the "student loan" cabal and you might as well do college if you have a little more time for the cost. Further, because the economy is so bad at the middle to lower level, you can't afford to take 4 years to do school, because you can't afford to live and eat -- if people cannot work full time and exist, how do you work and go to school and afford it? And if the economy's that bad, that means a lot fewer parents who have money for college or even who have money to support other adults easily while they go to school even were it local and free.

This is the reality in my small city in the reddest red-state in the nation. College is mostly unaffordable, jobs you can live on don't exist without it, except jobs often still don't exist even WITH it -- it's merely "better chance" is all, plenty of people around have degrees and all their debt and still can't find a job easy to live on let alone pay the debt on (without needing to pay it off over 300 years). I'm close to many people who are in the age 18-25 range and this is their frustrated reality -- but now it is the frustrated reality for nearly everybody who loses a job for any reason and either isn't already management, or doesn't want to or can't go be a manager at McDonald's.

What Trump is trying to do -- and this absolutely will "sometimes" be a problem in "some" situations -- is free up the economical climate to encourage more small business. In case it isn't clear, small business is the lifeblood of the country in terms of what grows, what innovates, and the numbers that increase when an economy is improving and technology or culture is changing. In the USA, as of a few years ago:
Over 50% of the working population (120 mil) works in a small business.
Over 65% of the net new jobs since 1995 are from small business.
About 52% of all 'small business' is home-based.
those stats are from Forbes.com www.forbes.com...

Small businesses are the ones that most NEED people to be working overtime. Larger businesses can afford more personnel on hand to cover it, or resource out to subcontractors who handle that. Small businesses usually have a more irregular workstream, with often a faster growth or decline rate. Often employers could pay more but if you aren't making enough for salary consistently you're hourly, and if you're hourly you can't work over 40 hours without the employer penalized for it -- though this is rewarding the employee too of course (but then, the endless gradient tax laws mean a greater % of not only that extra money, but ALL the money on that paycheck, is lost) (he is attempting to simplify that as well, so that would not be the case except rarely if you were right on the edge).

When work increases -- or personnel decreases -- both of which are real issues for small biz (the smaller the moreso), it would be nice if an employer could say, ten more hours a week if someone can, we don't have enough hours to merit a whole 'nuther employee but we need the work done. Right now they can't afford to say that, so they mostly pretend it's all fine, and the existing employees simply try to do the work anyway in the time they've got, or don't officially report overtime because they need to keep their job and don't want to either violate policy or seem like a whiner.

Big companies it's another story. Small biz, though, really needs the option. I agree it's a hazard and can be abused, absolutely, but this is really the trade-off with "Freedom" across the board in everything -- from business, to weapons, to schooling -- everything you "set free" both creates a lot of opportunity and flexibility, but also creates risk from people abusing that flexibility.

RC


Terrific post! Very interesting from your perspective.

Trump talked about small business owners getting huge tax breaks. Instead of being taxed at personal rates they would be taxed at 10% or something. They would have to be careful how to word the law right so people do not abuse it. It would have to be something you only qualify if you file a schedule K and the your gross income of your business is equal or above the median wage and you show a profit. Otherwise, everyone in the country will claim they are a small business. I hope Trump succeeds in MAGA. I just don't see it happening. I'm ruined with pessimism about government.
edit on 15-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 01:39 PM
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Forcing people to work longer hours with no overtime will turn America into a third world country. Overtime pay is mostly accessible in the manufacturing industry because schedules have to be met on time or the contract gets cancelled. I worked for a company where 50 + excavators sat for nearly two years out in the weather being exposed to the environment which not only includes rust but rodents as well that chew on the wires causing electrical problems. Why did Turkey not want to pay for the machines right away? They said it was because financial issues with their country. I think it was because they wanted rodents to damage the electrical systems to get the machines at a reduced price as well as being able to ridicule the company for trying to sell them bad equipment.

Because the rush to get the machines out was great many people put a lot of overtime hours in just to meet the contract needs.

By eliminating overtime Trump will basically be saying that only top level executives and those that they choose really have the right to liberty and happiness while everyone else slaves away working in Trump's vision of American Sweatshops where no one will be able to spend time with their kids and nuture them but instead the nuturing will be done by Trumps Alt-Right brainwashing centers.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 01:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: Kettu
Hold on to your pay stubs folks, this is just the beginning!

Back to the coal mines with all of us! Back to the company store!

All hail our employer overlords!

Thanks Trump!


What you would rather shop at the government store? Line up comrade for you weekly ration of bread.



posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: Dryson
Forcing people to work longer hours with no overtime will turn America into a third world country.

Overtime law cannot be overturned by any President.
The only thing Trump can do - and what is being talked about in this thread (despite the OP's misunderstanding of it) - is an overtime regulation Obama created a couple of years ago. NOT the "traditional" overtime LAW regarding hourly employees and a 40 hour work week.

I've said that three times in this thread now.

Anyone willing to listen to this?

Harte



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