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The Jefferson Bible: Inspirational work or heresy...

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posted on Nov, 15 2016 @ 10:28 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut
If the record is just mythology, so are Jesus' words. Jesus spoke a lot about supernatural things. What He said and what He did, integrate. When He performed a miracle, He usually had a comment or parable that went along with it, specifically about the supernatural source of the miracle and its implications spiritually.
If you are going to reject the accounts as mythical and legendary, then reject them totally. It makes no sense to cherry pick the bits that you personally like. Someone else might choose to excise different bits.
Where do you draw the line?
Definitely, science has moved on from Jefferson's time and things once thought of as supernatural now have natural explanantions.
It comes down to this, a God who could not perform miracles because He is restrained by natural physics, is no God. The Bible is the record of specific human interactions with God, particularly as those interactions relate to agreements (covenants) on conduct.
If you take the supernatural out of it, you remove God and therefore the entire work would be a deception that references agreements with 'nothing'.


Or....you can choose to have faith in God as Jesus intended without the supernatural. Jesus doesn't have to be God for you to have faith in God. You only choose to have faith in God this way. You idol worship the "Jesus" words in the Bible above God. You are so obsessed with the words that God is not even in the conversation. The Bible is the words of the disciples. We have no idea even if the words in the Bible are accurate. And even if they were, the disciples used words and made interpretations based on their personal life experiences and the historical context of their lives.

For example, 1 Peter 2:18-20

"18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God."

I'm sorry, how can I take any words like this to be the word of God? No God of love would consider slavery to be moral. No God would of love find it commendable to be beaten by a master. The Bible was written by men to preserve their own corrupt and immoral authority of kings and lords over subjects and slaves. King James believed in the divine rights of kings. The Bible is not the word of God. The Bible is the word of King James twisted to serve his ideas about monarchy.
edit on 15-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 02:54 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: chr0naut
If the record is just mythology, so are Jesus' words. Jesus spoke a lot about supernatural things. What He said and what He did, integrate. When He performed a miracle, He usually had a comment or parable that went along with it, specifically about the supernatural source of the miracle and its implications spiritually.
If you are going to reject the accounts as mythical and legendary, then reject them totally. It makes no sense to cherry pick the bits that you personally like. Someone else might choose to excise different bits.
Where do you draw the line?
Definitely, science has moved on from Jefferson's time and things once thought of as supernatural now have natural explanantions.
It comes down to this, a God who could not perform miracles because He is restrained by natural physics, is no God. The Bible is the record of specific human interactions with God, particularly as those interactions relate to agreements (covenants) on conduct.
If you take the supernatural out of it, you remove God and therefore the entire work would be a deception that references agreements with 'nothing'.
Or....you can choose to have faith in God as Jesus intended without the supernatural. Jesus doesn't have to be God for you to have faith in God. You only choose to have faith in God this way. You idol worship the "Jesus" words in the Bible above God. You are so obsessed with the words that God is not even in the conversation. The Bible is the words of the disciples. We have no idea even if the words in the Bible are accurate. And even if they were, the disciples used words and made interpretations based on their personal life experiences and the historical context of their lives.

For example, 1 Peter 2:18-20

"18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God."

I'm sorry, how can I take any words like this to be the word of God? No God of love would consider slavery to be moral.
No God would of love find it commendable to be beaten by a master.


This verse (and others) does not suggest that slavery is fair, just or moral. Slavery was, however, a fact of life during the times the Bible was written, just like murder, theft and war are still facts of life and are mentioned with negative connotations in the Bible. For America, under Jefferson's Presidency, and after, slavery was a fact of life right up until December 6, 1865.

Jefferson himself at one time owned more than 200 slaves, although he opposed the slave trade at different times (he was, after all, a politician).

In the same way that we honour Nelson Mandela for his endurance of unfair imprisonment, God would honour the unfair treatment of a slave at the hands of a violent master. This quote from the Bible is saying that God will ultimately reward those who are treated unfairly but stoically endure - it isn't instruction for masters to beat slaves, as you seem to be implying.


The Bible was written by men to preserve their own corrupt and immoral authority of kings and lords over subjects and slaves. King James believed in the divine rights of kings. The Bible is not the word of God. The Bible is the word of King James twisted to serve his ideas about monarchy.


The majority of the Bible was written when there were no kings or lords in political leadership of the nation of Israel and it isn't about political control at all. Jesus mission specifically is about God being the only king - the Kingdom of Heaven, and not allowing priests, or kings, or any earthly authority, dominance over God's rule.

The King James Bible was not written by King James and I doubt very much that he had any opportunity to put a "spin" on its content. It was a translation into English of pre-existing texts, the original of which were thousands of years old. It was also translated by 45 acknowleged experts in the field of translation from Aramaic, Hebrew, Koine Greek and Latin, into English.

The fact that later translations are in close agreement, even though they don't use the KJV as a textual source, indicates the general accuracy of the translation.

The Jefferson 'Bible' is only a cut and paste from the King James Version's 'New Testament' section. Normally the Bible has about 1,200 pages but Jefferson's only has 46 pages, an indication of how little content it retains.

edit on 16/11/2016 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2016 @ 07:16 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut
This verse (and others) does not suggest that slavery is fair, just or moral. Slavery was, however, a fact of life during the times the Bible was written, just like murder, theft and war are still facts of life and are mentioned with negative connotations in the Bible. For America, under Jefferson's Presidency, and after, slavery was a fact of life right up until December 6, 1865.


I think you are missing the point. You can't cherry pick the Bible and claim it is the word of God at the same time. So many verses are specific to the historical context in which it was written it is my opinion that it is the word of man. It is the word of the disciples. It is not the word of God Almighty himself. Otherwise, abortion would have been mentioned in the Bible along with 100 other yet to be discover immoralities worth mentioning.

That said, as long as you read as a metaphor, not to be taken as literal truth, not to be taken out of its historical context, then, in my opinion, the essential message of morality is important remains.


originally posted by: chr0naut
Jefferson himself at one time owned more than 200 slaves, although he opposed the slave trade at different times (he was, after all, a politician).


This is irrelevant whether he had slaves or not does not make it moral.


originally posted by: chr0naut
In the same way that we honour Nelson Mandela for his endurance of unfair imprisonment, God would honour the unfair treatment of a slave at the hands of a violent master. This quote from the Bible is saying that God will ultimately reward those who are treated unfairly but stoically endure - it isn't instruction for masters to beat slaves, as you seem to be implying.


This is irrelevant whether Mandela turned to God whether or not the way slavery is mentioned in the Bible is moral.


originally posted by: chr0naut
The majority of the Bible was written when there were no kings or lords in political leadership of the nation of Israel and it isn't about political control at all. Jesus mission specifically is about God being the only king - the Kingdom of Heaven, and not allowing priests, or kings, or any earthly authority, dominance over God's rule.


The writings and books written by King James are very telling of his life philosophy. In my opinion, I just find it too hard to believe or accept that natural order of the Universe, God's law for man, is exactly the type of government King James was advocating at the time. If you cannot see this as self-serving propaganda preserving the rule of monarchy you are just not listening.

I do respect your opinion and passionate belief in the spirituality of Christ. But evil is always where you least expect it. You simply cannot have the word "Lord" have any meaning at all without the word "slaves." I very much doubt that an omnipotent God has any need whatsoever for slaves or obedience. A monarchy does!


originally posted by: chr0naut
The King James Bible was not written by King James and I doubt very much that he had any opportunity to put a "spin" on its content. It was a translation into English of pre-existing texts, the original of which were thousands of years old. It was also translated by 45 acknowleged experts in the field of translation from Aramaic, Hebrew, Koine Greek and Latin, into English.
The fact that later translations are in close agreement, even though they don't use the KJV as a textual source, indicates the general accuracy of the translation.


I believe what they translated was missing original thoughts of Christ. I've looked at the Greek. The words are simple and iconic and can be translated to mean so many things based on your point of view. All the translations are in agreement because they original content is scrubbed of anything that would not support government by monarchy. Even further, my suspicion is that the texts have been alter when rewritten by hand changed to support the belief in monarchy.

The reason I think this is you do not get crucified for splitting hairs over church doctrine. The way you become a leader is you find a parade and step in front of it. The reason Jesus was so popular is told the people you did not have to buy your salvation from the temple ending the idea that you have to get permission to achieve salvation. Jesus was a threat to the power structures at the time. What else could the threat be? It was a direct assault on the idea of monarchy.

I think you are losing the context of monarchy at the time the Bible was written. For thousands of years when kings invaded other territories they made slaves of the conquered people. Before invasion they would dehumanize the "enemy" because they were not the "chosen" people. There would be false flag attacks blamed on the enemy proving the enemy was sub-human and that killing or enslaving the enemy had no moral consequence. The King's religion reinforced all these ideas. Even further, the king was not seen as a human being. The king was thought to be God himself on earth. The idea of worshiping a single authority above all else is built into the very fabric of the Bible. I doubt very much the teachings of Jesus' were about perpetuating the worship of a single authority above all else. My opinion is Jesus was teaching the opposite that each person is fully responsible and capable of achieving salvation through a way of living and thinking independent of the temple and the monarchy. However, the King James version, or whatever it was translated from, preserves the idea of monarchy by claiming only way to achieve salvation is through Jesus Christ the king of kings. So worshiping the king is the same thing as worshiping Jesus.

In King James' book "The True Law of Free Monarchies" he argues for the idea of the divine rights of kings. That a king's word is the same as God's word on earth. The king is equal to Jesus and therefore equal to God to be worship as God's authority on earth. This is a very self-serving way of thinking. I doubt very much Jesus was promoting self-worship as it is written in the Bible by men who had a specific interest in preserving monarchy.


originally posted by: chr0naut
The Jefferson 'Bible' is only a cut and paste from the King James Version's 'New Testament' section. Normally the Bible has about 1,200 pages but Jefferson's only has 46 pages, an indication of how little content it retains.


Only 46 pages. That's what makes the Jefferson Bible so valuable. I have often heard Christians argue that without their specific way of worshiping Jesus people would have no morality. This is not true. There are many atheists I have known that are extremely moral, kind, and considerate of other people's well being. And there have been Christians I have met who are self-serving, selfish, inconsiderate, not always moral, and more. In that way of thinking, you do not need the 1154 other pages with all the miracles and authority worship stuff to appreciate and live your life according to Christ's teachings. The miracles are not very impressive to me anyway. I'm am more impressed by the teachings of Jesus that combat tribalism in world of never ending war.
edit on 16-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



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