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The Promise of America - Lady Liberty & The Shining City

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posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 11:36 AM
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Dear ATS,

I would like to start by sharing the poem at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty.




New Colossus

(statue of liberty poem)

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”




To be Anti-Immigrant and Anti-Immigration is UN-American. At least to me.

Let me be upfront with that.

I'm not talking about "porous open borders" or "letting bad guys in" or "un-vetted potential terrorists"- I'm talking about all this denigration that is being aimed at those whose crime is to hope, to dream of a better life, the majority of really good people who are here because of the very Call written on Lady Liberty.

Most of us here would not exist except for our immigrant ancestors. And if you go back far enough, we are ALL immigrants, from the earliest Colonists. We are a tapestry of cultures and ideals, not just one homogeneous "American Way."

Can we please just take a moment to appreciate WHY people flock to America? Can we admit to the compassion presented above in the poem writ on our Monument to Liberty, "Mother of Exiles?"

This poem brings me to tears, it is so beautiful, so high-minded and clear.

Can we see the glory in that? Does it move you?

Or is it all a lie?




posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:00 PM
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Where to start?

The nerve of us ungrateful Americans for not allowing these illegals to just walk in and live like they were born here! Why do we not recognize that illegal migration is a human right?



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: Plotus




these illegals to just walk in and live like they were born here


That's not what I'm talking about at all. As stated in the OP, this isn't about "letting in the bad guys" or "open borders" but about the words in that poem, and the inspiration people have to come here, to make a better life.

Most undocumented folks are not bad, by the way, and they take jobs we Americans don't want to do - just ask the fruit growers and Tyson Chicken...

So, you have not answered my question. Is the poem in the OP a lie? Are we a closed and xenophobic nation who wants to say, not only, "Don't Come In" but "Get Out!" as well?

Should we take down the statue? Should the Mother of Exiles be retired and returned to France?

What REALLY lies behind all of this? I think it is the sense that we are not and have not taken enough care of our own, so that our naturally generous spirit can shine like that Beacon is meant to. Would you agree? It isn't "those people" but a sluggish economy and a sense we need to serve our citizens well before we can serve the world?

edit on 12-11-2016 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:09 PM
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Yes the U.S. is built upon immigration. But it is built upon legal immigration. I have many family members who are LEGAL immigrants, and most of them are in debt because of the expensive and long legal process to make that happen. Now, why should we punish legal immigrants in favor of illegal aliens who come here and bash our laws and the 'American way' that they say they want to be a part of by coming here the wrong way?

The Statue of Liberty (which by the way is a gift from the French, and only a copy of the original which sits in the Seine in Paris) is there to welcome people to America, but to be Americans not to come to America and try to turn it into what they are fleeing from in the first place.

If you choose to move to another country for whatever reason, you assimilate. You do not demand others to adjust to you. For example, if you move to a country that speaks English . . . learn English. And most importantly, you don't move away from a society and demand that those taking you in do things the way the society did in which you left.



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: AboveBoard




Most undocumented folks are not bad, by the way, and they take jobs we Americans don't want to do - just ask the fruit growers and Tyson Chicken...


And then you have people like me (with multiple degrees) whom cannot get a job because illegal aliens are working for pennies on the dollar. Meanwhile I can't get a minimum wage job because of illegals working for less. And the same people screaming to let the illegals stay are at the same time yelling to increase the minimum wage so that there will be less jobs than before because owners can't afford to pay more. Yes this is becoming cyclical I know, but since those owners can't afford higher wages, they hire more illegals (for way less than current min wage) and even less Americans (immigrant or not) have jobs.

And no, the illegals are not taking jobs that Americans are unwilling to do. The Americans can't get the jobs because the businesses don't want to pay min wage when cheaper labor is available.



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:21 PM
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It seems we are under the gaze of the entire world. Does it move me ? Perhaps not. I doubt there is any country worldwide that distributes more help and aid than America.

Is it a lie.... ? One might interpret in innuendo or literally. Was not the author French? Perhaps suggesting the graciousness be afforded European immigrants ?

Did she have an agenda ? The friendship we have with France is transient, changing like the seasons, perhaps they would like it back, I'm sure there was a cry of protest when the original process of gifting it was introduced.



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: JDeLattre89



And no, the illegals are not taking jobs that Americans are unwilling to do. The Americans can't get the jobs because the businesses don't want to pay min wage when cheaper labor is available.


And who is really at fault here then? The immigrants being used for low cheap wages, or those that hire them?

What is your field, if I may ask? What kind of job would work best for you?

(Also, please look at the last lines of my second post above - please read them again...)

We are making illegals the "bad guys" and victimizing them, when the reality is, they are being used for profit. Who is to blame? The ones looking for a better life and a path to Citizenship, or the one's making a lot of money off of them, and keeping the cost of fruit and chicken down for the rest of us?

- AB



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:26 PM
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a reply to: Plotus

Yes, most people know it was a gift of the French.

Who is the enemy here? Did you not read my post? Is it immigrants (legal or otherwise) who want a better life or is the real problem a sluggish economy that fans the flames of blame and finger-pointing, so people start saying "THOSE PEOPLE are to BLAME for my pain!"

Fix the economy and bring prosperity for the vast majority, if not all Americans, and THEN will you allow that it is not the immigrants, from wherever they hail, that are the problem?

- AB



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:26 PM
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There is a path to 'legal' citizenship, it is Encouraged by all means....... except Illegally.



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: Plotus
There is a path to 'legal' citizenship, it is Encouraged by all means....... except Illegally.


Great! We agree to Encourage a Path to Legal Citizenship!!

I consider that progress.

See? How hard was that. So we are clear, it is not the PEOPLE but the PROCESS. And they are not so much to blame, as they are needing a better legal process, in my opinion, one that is fair and compassionate, but not a free-pass, which includes those here that are undocumented.

(Are we still agreeing?)




posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:32 PM
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I did read your post in it's entirety...... indeed I did. Perhaps you could clarify who the 'enemy' is. I see no enemy, only These illegal immigrants are devouring jobs, displacing Americans and with approximately 11 million in California alone decimating social programs while blighting entire cities.



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:34 PM
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AboveBoard, I have no wish to be in combat with you, but in many ways we are on opposite sides of the street.



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: Plotus

Sources for your claims?

Do you think they are on welfare?? They do pay taxes... I dunno. I think it's important for me to listen to you and your anger and disgruntlement over this issue. I think its important to understand where you are coming from. I think it is also important to see your facts, from real and reliable sources, so that I know that your conclusions are not propaganda, but based in reality.

I would agree there is a problem, and listening, and checking facts, is the first step to a solution. I am willing to do that. I hope you will grant me the same.

I think the Mother of Exiles would even approve of us taking that step...




posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: Plotus
AboveBoard, I have no wish to be in combat with you, but in many ways we are on opposite sides of the street.


Hm. I think we are in the same great nation, one with a tradition of immigration, and that we actually live on the same street.

I am not attacking you, friend. I am listening to you.

peace,



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:42 PM
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A recovery to prosperity might in fact lead to a surplus that was able to afford help, but Americans bank accounts, (if your not already hand to mouth) are seemingly not in a position to afford that. We owe trillions of dollars at present, European banking is failing at an alarming rate, it's just a matter of time here that the Piper comes to collect on our monetary system, and our social programs taxed beyond their ability...

I suppose I will throw the question back in your court..



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:44 PM
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And, to be frank, I don't see a solution at present. In a perfect world...... of course most would choose to be gracious



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:46 PM
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Yes AboveBoard peace. All dialogue here is good, we are ATS.



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: Plotus

I am finding common ground as best I can.

I am inspired by the Lady Liberty, I am inspired by being that shelter from the storm for all who come to our shores, but indeed, we must make sure we are creating a system that does not favor the newly washed ashore to the ones who are struggling citizens.

This is the point of imbalance. The economy. Opportunity.

My main fear is how people are turning it into hating on immigrants, legal or otherwise, and I see that as very dangerous and counterproductive. They are not to blame for our system leaving American's behind economically. To focus on "those people" is to take focus away from those who rig our economy in their own favor and leave the rest of us hand to mouth or unable to survive that $1000 emergency.

My point being that the problem really doesn't lie at the feet of those called to seek liberty in America, from wherever they hail, no more than is it your fault for being caught in a bad economy.

This still rings true to me. The issue is that WE are also of the "tired and poor."




“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

edit on 12-11-2016 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 12:58 PM
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My Immigrant family was comprised of English and Romanians, the Native American part Apache, five generations worth. It seems either the English or Americans were trying to either Colonialize (England)or directly help (US)those of other nations not so fortunate. Sure it's 99% economy if I understand the question.



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: Plotus
My Immigrant family was comprised of English and Romanians, the Native American part Apache, five generations worth. It seems either the English or Americans were trying to either Colonialize (England)or directly help (US)those of other nations not so fortunate. Sure it's 99% economy if I understand the question.


And I am a melting pot of my own, too!!

My point, is that it is not the ones who are seeking liberty here that are to blame, really. Fanning prejudice against them is a way the REAL issue gets swept under the rug, in my opinion. We have an uber wealthy class who doesn't really pay taxes and who has sucked up most of the money. Period. It is to their benefit that we make immigrants the focus of wrath and not them. We are many, they are few. Immigrants are a vulnerable target.

The Economy is the issue underlying so much of the current political rage. It must be improved and then much of the current leaning towards anger and vitriol at "The Other" in our fair nation will subside.

The problem must be dealt with at the root, and we must not deflect to harm human lives who are generally worse off and more vulnerable than even our own.

We must hold the Promise of Lady Liberty and the Shining City for ALL AMERICANS, to make that poem and sentiment TRUE. I would like to see things happen simultaneously though, which is where I really think disagreement happens. I would like to see us not harm the "deplorable" immigrants (see what I did there?) and instead raise up the standard of living for all Americans who are currently struggling, while allowing for compassion towards those escaping even worse conditions.

I think, however, that with people such as you and I, Plotus, if reasonable voices can share and hear each other, then even the most volatile issues can be discussed, and solutions worked out, and the Promise of America built for all.

At least I hope so. I've enjoyed our conversation.


edit on 12-11-2016 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)




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