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Trump, NAFTA, and Tariffs, "Those jobs are gone and they're not coming back"

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posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 12:35 PM
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I read this CNN article on how bad it would be for Trump to raise tariffs. The arguments against tariffs are below. But here is my counterargument but I would be interested if anyone agreed with the CNN position with anything more than just propaganda affirmations.

1. Jobs will come back because of greed. Once people realize they can compete and make real money people will manufacture products.

2. There will not be a trade war because our trade imbalances are so big. It's not a threat if on the USA side of the war there is nothing to lose.

'Those jobs are gone and they're not coming back'

"Absolutely he can -- he has enormous powers," says Gary Hufbauer, senior fellow at Peterson Institute of International Economics, which outlined what Trump could do with trade. "He can impose tariffs."

"When countries slap trade barriers on each other, that defines a trade war. And China, if not Mexico too, likely won't wait to retaliate with tariffs or sanctions of its own against America."

money.cnn.com...
edit on 11-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

CNN? Did you check around for a second opinion?



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 12:55 PM
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from the CNN article..........


"Those jobs are gone and they're not coming back," says Edward Alden, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. "Tariffs won't change that equation. Tariffs will make it worse."


A real unbiased opinion for sure.




posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015
Clinton News Network ?



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Ha! Aren't they the ones that wrote the damn NAFTA? NWO scum.

They should have Soros to comment on the article, while they were at it. Add a bit of fearmongering sizzle to the piece. What n00bs!
edit on 11-11-2016 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 01:04 PM
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CNN- RIP 2016





RA



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
from the CNN article..........


"Those jobs are gone and they're not coming back," says Edward Alden, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. "Tariffs won't change that equation. Tariffs will make it worse."


A real unbiased opinion for sure.




A fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations?

Ah, Rockefellers little institute. The Bilderbergs are trying to scare monger, just like the British members, over Brexit.



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 01:14 PM
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When I grew up as boy, not a single item in our home was made outside of the U.S.
There was no need or desire to buy from the outside.
Hell, there wasn't anything on the shelves to buy that was foreign, other than imported food.

We can't go back that far, but we can get pretty damned close.

They only question is, do the American people have the desire to change back to the way it was ?

We now know 50% has what it takes. How about the rest ?

Buck


edit on 11-11-2016 by flatbush71 because: Too damned old to get it right the first time



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: flatbush71

That sure sounds an awful lot like a lot of thought and hard work...



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 01:23 PM
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Tariffs against certain countries are a great idea and China comes to mind immediately. They already engage in currency manipulation, illegal export subsidies, intellectual property theft, lax worker safety and crap environmental regulations. We can sit here on our thumbs all day hoping and dreaming they will trade with the U.S. faily, but it's not going to happen until playing field is level. This source I thought addressed Trump's ideas in a fair unbiased position.

NY Times



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 01:34 PM
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Here is a simple little math exercise/problem for you, pretend for a minute that you own a business.

a) The Corporate Tax Rate in Mexico is currently 30%
b) If you are a Corporate Turncoat (yet to be defined), when you try to re-import products you made in Mexico, after you closed your US Plant(s), you will have to pay an Import Duty of 35% (under Trump's plan).

So...35% off the Pre-Tax bottom line, and 30% more to get to the After-Tax Bottom line

c) If you just stay in the US, or move back, the US Tax Rate will be 15% (under Trump's Tax Plan)

So...nothing off the Pre-Tax bottom line, and only 15% to get to the After-Tax bottom line.

All other things being equal (which they aren't now, but maybe will be under a renegotiated NAFTA they will be)...which way would you go, as a business owner?



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 01:34 PM
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This TV ad comes to mind:

"Chrysler Eminem Super Bowl Commercial - Imported From Detroit"



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 01:41 PM
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CNN? They're still around? I thought they lost on Tuesday?



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

NAFTA the job killing agreement signed into effect they then former President Bill Clinton, yes people forget, that it was him and then his wife dare to come into the political spectrum with the campaign of creating jobs that her husband help kill.

What that tells you.

Actually Canada already had said that they will work with the US under Trump to talk about negotiations on the trade agreements.



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 02:48 PM
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America would "win" a trade war, why? because the things they import from us are things they need and can`t produce for themselves, things like technology, food,quality made products ,etc
The things we import from them are things we used to make in the U.S. things that we could again start making.

we can survive and prosper without Chinese made junk from Wal-Mart but can they survive without food?
America is a manufacturing powerhouse when it needs to be or wants to be.
edit on 11-11-2016 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

So Mexico will retaliate by losing $60B a year in trade? Wow, how terrifying.



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Trump's tariff plan is STUPID. Tariffs have been well studied by economists for decades, and their effects have been known for decades. No, tariffs do not help an economy. This is a political science fact. I welcome anyone to challenge me on this and we can look at the sources for these facts together.

What does help is free markets and capitalism. What reduces the rich-poor gap is capitalism. What reduces poverty and improves quality of life is capitalism. Why is Hong Kong a prosperous place? Capitalism. Why is Singapore a prosperous place (though now threatened with a high government debt load and a correlated hit to their GDP)? Capitalism. Why is Venezuela a failure? Socialism. Why is Greece a failure? Mixed economy. Why is the US failing? Mixed economy. A mixed economy means mixed success in life and it is fascism lite.

The most compelling reason for tariffs is this: other countries may have weak pollution regulations, and those weak regulations lead them to create products cheaply at the expense of high pollution levels. True, but pollution is best resolved with civil lawsuits that require foreign companies to compensate pollution victims before they are allowed to ship any products. So, instead of the USA corporation making a profit on pollution, it needs to be the victims of the pollution that are compensated in the fairest numbers and methods possible.

Trump is someone who compromises all his principles to end up in the middle of the road as a moderate. "Extremists" result in extreme success or extreme failure. Personally I like extreme success not a mixed bag.



posted on Nov, 11 2016 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: fractal5

you missed the point of why he would impose high tariffs, not to improve the economy but to lure or force American companies to move back to America thus increasing jobs.



posted on Nov, 12 2016 @ 11:50 PM
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originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: fractal5

you missed the point of why he would impose high tariffs, not to improve the economy but to lure or force American companies to move back to America thus increasing jobs.

Good point. It could very well add jobs, even career jobs. That said, increasing jobs does not increase prosperity or average quality of life. Its an illusion of improvement while not achieving improvement. The program that screws up the economy the least is UBI (universal basic income) and even that (in current theory) does screw up the economy but not as much as a tariff.

As it stands, I'll be expecting a collapse because I don't think any country can sustain a 35% government spending-GDP ratio in the long term without a rich-poor gap that widens until hyperinflation wipes everything out. Better average quality of life can only be achieved by destroying jobs by automation and efficiency improvements.



posted on Nov, 13 2016 @ 12:54 AM
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originally posted by: fractal5
a reply to: dfnj2015

Trump's tariff plan is STUPID. Tariffs have been well studied by economists for decades, and their effects have been known for decades. No, tariffs do not help an economy. This is a political science fact. I welcome anyone to challenge me on this and we can look at the sources for these facts together.

What does help is free markets and capitalism. What reduces the rich-poor gap is capitalism. What reduces poverty and improves quality of life is capitalism. Why is Hong Kong a prosperous place? Capitalism. Why is Singapore a prosperous place (though now threatened with a high government debt load and a correlated hit to their GDP)? Capitalism. Why is Venezuela a failure? Socialism. Why is Greece a failure? Mixed economy. Why is the US failing? Mixed economy. A mixed economy means mixed success in life and it is fascism lite.

The most compelling reason for tariffs is this: other countries may have weak pollution regulations, and those weak regulations lead them to create products cheaply at the expense of high pollution levels. True, but pollution is best resolved with civil lawsuits that require foreign companies to compensate pollution victims before they are allowed to ship any products. So, instead of the USA corporation making a profit on pollution, it needs to be the victims of the pollution that are compensated in the fairest numbers and methods possible.

Trump is someone who compromises all his principles to end up in the middle of the road as a moderate. "Extremists" result in extreme success or extreme failure. Personally I like extreme success not a mixed bag.


really than why does China and Mexico have tariffs on amarican products?

Why does the EU have tariffs on any non EU member??

Why does does Japan have tariffs I DON'T THINK YOU KNOW THE US IS ONE OF A FEW THAT DONT.




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