WOW. Russia Confirms Contact With Trump Campaign

a reply to: trollz

I'd hope they were in contact. God forbid the nations of the world actually try to work together.

That would not be the issue, clearly.

So basically... Trump creates diplomatic ties with Russia while Hillary accuses Russia of interfering with the election and threatens war against them

When exactly did she threaten Russia with war?

See how ridiculous it sounds?

Your straw man argument is ridiculous.

Some of the people who could be implicated are being considered for cabinet level positions. Having improved relations with Russia shouldn't necessitate having a Russian operative as say, Secretary of Defense. I would assume that nobody would be more concerned with knowing the truth than our President-elect himself.

Wouldn't you?

a reply to: Agit8dChop

No, I did not leave out the denial from the Trump campaign. It's in the second post.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I'd say there was at least a decent chance that Trump wasn't directly involved. If members of his campaign were working as operatives for or in collusion with, a foreign government , that's something that needs to be dealt with.

They needed to get Putin's personal phone number, for when Trumpa needed advice.... like right now. He just tweeted

Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!

Trump's tweets

Paid protestors, media out to get him, not fair!! From Russia with love.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: Agit8dChop

Let's not get confused here. Putin is an expansionist...as long as he continues that we can never truly be friends. That's what our relationship with China is starting to strain. Their heads have gotten large and they are starting to show signs of expansionism. Putin will probably be involved in WW3 one way or another, and the USA will undoubtedly side against him.

Holy s#. We agree on something.

To the point about Hillary. She was just espousing the existing US side in the ME which is against Russia. To claim she therefore was for war is an extrapolation based on her support for a no-fly zone in Syria which the JCS chief had said might lead to war. Its only a very indirect extrapolation. Hillary, though, said she would negotiate with the Russians before she would do a no fly zone. She wouldn’t do any unilateral provocative actions.


As for Trump and Russia: Trump better be very very carful here. The Military group understands things Trump is overlooking. That is the US can’t justify this huge military build-up just fighting ISIS.

If JFK couldn’t ease out the US/Russian cold war I doubt Trump can.

Obama didn't have the intellectual stature or courage to stand up to them I doubt the imbecile Trump has. Trump didn’t even know what the triad was

Trump is not only a puppet but he is an ignorant puppet

a reply to: Willtell

Trump is not only a puppet but he is an ignorant puppet

And, instead of cracking the books like a good student in preparation for being POTUS, this scheisskopf is tweeting like a school girl!! we're effed.

a reply to: raymundoko

Here we go again. The biggest provider of ignorance is at it again.

That's how you're introducing yourself now? I dunno, it's kind of hokey but if you're feeling it, what the hell.

You lie, and you lie, and you lie more.

I haven't lied about anything. Why don't you point out exactly where I did? An official declined to elaborate and threw out a possible explanation... and? Were the statements by Ryabkov actually refuted? No?

Granted, I am not a Russian speaker so I can't go to the original source but what Ryabkov said in no way sounds like "routine communication" as it's translated. Perhaps Ryabkov was out of pocket and said more than he should have. Maybe his comments were planned and they decided to walk it back a little bit or maybe the whole thing is the Russians planting a seed of doubt.

That's a real gem alright. It actually fits well enough with this:

Speaking to Bloomberg News, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said staffers at the Russian Embassy in Washington met with members of Trump’s campaign — meetings she described as “normal practice.” Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton’s campaign refused similar requests for meetings, Zakharova told the agency.

There were sporadic communications that didn't go anywhere? The Russians reached to Clinton's campaign and were rebuked?

You might want to consider arguing your point with out fallaciously declaring the other person a liar.

originally posted by: Annee
Wouldn't it be interesting if Trump got disqualified to be president.

Is that possible?

Next to impossible. They'd have to have something egregious and irrefutable in order to have anything actionable. My personal belief, regardless of what a number of posters have tried to state for me, is that Trump is likely unwitting if there's something to this. It's been my suspicion that Carter Page was acting as Manafort's liaison.

originally posted by: goou111
a reply to: theantediluvian

So now the Russians are believable?

Make up your mind..

Government officials aren't particularly believable to begin with. That doesn't mean that they're always lying. There are many possibilities but you're dismissing them all out of hand because you are resistant to even briefly considering any of them because of your emotional investment (imo).

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

There was an update to that the night before the election. The Heat Street story I linked earlier was actually a follow up to that piece:

Two separate sources with links to the counter-intelligence community have confirmed to Heat Street that the FBI sought, and was granted, a FISA court warrant in October, giving counter-intelligence permission to examine the activities of ‘U.S. persons’ in Donald Trump’s campaign with ties to Russia.

Contrary to earlier reporting in the New York Times, which cited FBI sources as saying that the agency did not believe that the private server in Donald Trump’s Trump Tower which was connected to a Russian bank had any nefarious purpose, the FBI’s counter-intelligence arm, sources say, re-drew an earlier FISA court request around possible financial and banking offenses related to the server. The first request, which, sources say, named Trump, was denied back in June, but the second was drawn more narrowly and was granted in October after evidence was presented of a server, possibly related to the Trump campaign, and its alleged links to two banks; SVB Bank and Russia’s Alfa Bank. While the Times story speaks of metadata, sources suggest that a FISA warrant was granted to look at the full content of emails and other related documents that may concern US persons.

What the sources were saying was that the earlier FISA warrant was denied and that they later refiled a narrower one and it was approved in October. I read that story and I held off posting it because it was too much to try to explain for something that was inconclusive and wasn't like to have any impact that close to voting.

a reply to: theantediluvian

You absolutely lied, and you continue to lie. Then you act like I didn't point out your lie. Stop being obtuse. You. Are. A. Liar.

Lie: used with reference to a situation involving deception or founded on a mistaken impression.

You quote only portions of the material you need to create a false narrative. You intentionally leave out what doesn't fit your narrative.

You've shown yourself for what you are over the last 18 months. It will be pointed out at every turn now.

a reply to: theantediluvian

sorry,

It must be stressed that Heat Street’s report is not confirmed fact, and if its report and theory is proven true, it does not point to use of the FISA warrant for a criminal arrest of Donald Trump at this time either. A secret FISA warrant authorizes covert electronic intelligence gathering of a US person by the FBI, and it is issued by a secret panel of federal judges in Washington, D.C. without participation of the target being surveilled in the hearing. Louise Mensch’s exclusive report contains a series of logical and plausible theories which must be viewed skeptically until the first sentence is proven to be true:

Again, it cannot be stressed enough that this is a difficult to confirm the essential facts of this report of the FBI surveilling Donald Trump’s email server. The corroborating news reports both provide a plausible theory to Mensch, but also should cause the reader to draw conclusions skeptically because Heat Street’s report could fit the publicly known facts all too well, but still be factually false.

It’s also notable that Mensch was a Republican for Hillary before endorsing McMullin. That doesn’t make her much different than any member of the news media registered as a Republican, like the boards of numerous conservative newspapers in America who endorsed Hillary Clinton based on the facts available. Readers should also take into account Mensch’s personal history of histrionic statements, trolling and reported substance issues which may make her an unreliable news source, when evaluating the source of this report to decide if it’s plausible, although none of that takes away from the sound logic of the ‘big picture’ of her claims in the Heat Street report. If it’s a lie or misinformation, certainly every piece of the puzzle is confirmed elsewhere or fits known facts, except for one.

recognize this name Mensch none other than the woman that wrote the article in your link.
the external link,REPORT: FBI Just Got A Warrant To Investigate Trump’s Russian Server

no i think i'll stick with what has been shown to have been reported by ny times.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Edit: pointed out above, caught by another poster already.

OP, do not confuse the story. Trump is a pawn.

Putin's party, United Russia is the party of criminals and thieves according to a large chunk of Russians. It is common knowledge in that country. RT has already been identified by many intelligence groups as the main source of this party's propaganda. Much of this "news" is recycled here on ATS for whatever reason. Putin has long been accused of running a criminal enterprise with an identical structure as the criminal American parties, the Democrats and Republicans. Putting friends in positions of power, bribery, money laundering, and murder accusations. These accusations have lots of merit.

The Clinton's large network also scared Putin. One criminal being slowly pushed out of business by another criminal. If you look at the reality of Russia's own economy, it is sinking fast. Russia will soon run out of its rainy day fund and be forced to take money from a fund related to civil services. This too will run out within the next 5 years. America has quite the opposite situation and using its large network of like minded countries who are much more financially stable than Russia and its partners, it has squeezed Russia. The squeeze should continue until Putin is broken. The Russian people can then seize the opportunity by installing a new and independent government.

Even if Putin merely reached out to Trump it is because he needs sanctions removed in order to continue business transactions connected to more criminal activity. No matter which way you swing it, the people suffer.

See Ilya Yashin's report titled "The Criminal Russia Party". This is not a peace and love relationship. World powers are making plays to secure finances and resources for its people with many shady figures skimming money off the top as they please.

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
Oh no!

Not diplomacy!


We want war with russia like hillary promised!

Well when a foreign govt interferes with your electoral process with active collusion from some locals there might be a word for that, and it ain't called diplomacy, that quib that president elect made Russia feeding them intelligence
was no joking matter.

Trump's Plea for Russia to Hack the U.S. Government

www.theatlantic.com...
Now some ppl say oh we are allies against Isil yeah we are we are also kinda allies with with the Iranians in the enemy of my enemy is my friend for now, however no one would take lightly, Iran feeding info to the Clinton corner, but make no mistake Russia is no Britain, mother Russia is a competitor, plus there are rumors that business interest between Trump and Putin overlap..be that as it may, if influence peddling is what it seemed to be , then watch as Russia take or retake territories it think should be theirs with the full endorsement from the new POTUS .
Oil rich Alaska may be up for buy back.

originally posted by: Willtell
The problem is the hypocrisy of people.

If Hillary did similar certain people would be yelling like hyenas “Hillary is a criminal”

Hillary is a criminal, even if she did not do this.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

recognize this name Mensch none other than the woman that wrote the article in your link. the external link,REPORT: FBI Just Got A Warrant To Investigate Trump’s Russian Server no i think i'll stick with what has been shown to have been reported by ny times.

It cannot be ruled out that Mensch's source is wrong, lying or even that the source is made up. That's the nature of unnamed sources. I don't know enough about Mensch to have a well-formed opinion and Heat Street is a very new news site. It's also possible that the NYT FBI source was wrong, lying or made up. A third possibility is that neither are true and a fourth, that they're both true and accurate accounts but the NYT source was simply not aware of the second application for a FISA warrant.

I guess we'll have to wait to see what develops. If you want to put more stock in the NYT story, I'm not going to try to persuade you not too.

Russian diplomats have remarked that we are in Cold War 2.0.

Russia wants a new cold war, Russia needs a new Cold War. China's appetite for resources is encroaching upon Russia. The Russian people's quality of life is diminishing as their resource-dependent economy stagnates. Russia's is facing a steep population decline, about 10 million people by 2030. Putin has to act aggressive to provoke a new arms race...to stimulate his economy and restore his people's pride.

Despite what Russia claims about wanting to be "friends" (Russia is only ever friends with Russia) -- a new arms race and cold war has been ongoing now for several years. His FSB has now been caught operating outside of near-Russia (the FSB is like our FBI, domestic).

Russia has been sowing seeds of alt-right nationalism across the EU in order to cause chaos and inflame tensions. Russian money and intelligence has been fed to anti-EU, pro-nationalist, alt-right groups in Finland and the UK...and here in the USA.

Many stories were white-washed during the election of the Russian troll farms that canvased the internet in support of Trump. These efforts FAR exceeded those of the pitiful "CTR" by Clinton's people.

I'm actually ashamed at how poorly Clinton's digital propaganda machine fared against the Russians. There is a very real cyberwar going on right now -- and the Russians have honed their social engineering down to a science. They have very elaborate propaganda programs designed to sow discord and chaos -- even here in America.

We didn't listen though. Even the USA's own MSM ignored this fact for the most part. Perhaps it seemed to "conspiracy" or something, along the lines something "those crazy conservative conspiracy people" would rant about.

They should have listened. We're being infiltrated and subverted daily by a foreign government, and it seems we're sleeping at the wheel and not doing anything about it.

And yet for some reason the conservatives in this country apparently have already been programmed, as they believe Russia's agenda is good for them. If conservatives fawning over Russia isn't a sure sign of Russian social engineering and successful propaganda, I don't know what else is.

EDIT: Adding to the above, that should be the canary in our American coal mine. If an entire political group is shifting like that, it should send a stark warning to the rest of America. Democrats, Independents ... no one is immune from this foreign influence.

What is paradoxical is this "nationalistic" push as of late, and yet that only seems to extend to everyone but Russia. Has anyone noticed that? This is not by accident, but by design.

Be vigilant, check your sources and question everything.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Read the FBI statement more carefully. It said Donald Trump did not have direct contact with Russian government.
This means Donald Trump personally. It does not exclude indirect contact, meaning some of the many people who worked for him, having such clandestine contacts.

Government statements often are like this: they technically have narrow meanings, and if other people extend it and make inferences (which might be incorrect) the government is happy to not correct them.

In my opinion, it is not appropriate for one side in a domestic partisan election to be talking covertly with a potential foreign adversary in a foreign government, especially one with a vested interest in the outcome.

If he talked with Putin openly, and results and discussions openly reported, that might be OK. People were upset with HRC's private speeches to financial powers when she was a private citizen. Private contacts with a foreign government while a candidate is worse.

originally posted by: Kettu

Russia has been sowing seeds of alt-right nationalism across the EU in order to cause chaos and inflame tensions. Russian money and intelligence has been fed to anti-EU, pro-nationalist, alt-right groups in Finland and the UK...and here in the USA.

This is, quite literally, exactly the same as the Cold War KGB playbook. At that time, the most important strategic imperative was to weaken European countries in NATO and divide the bonds between US and Western Europe. And this appears to be what Putin is doing once again, remember he was KGB in East Germany?

Back then in the Cold War, the USSR concentrated on disruptive leftist movements in European countries, giving them covert ideological, propaganda and financial help. Now it appears that Russia correctly sees the weak point of disruption to be from the right.

Trump is favored by Putin because he will cause more friction between US and EU/NATO.