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posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: AlaskanDad

I would like to know what she has on Comey to make him flip flop like a fish out of water.




posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 04:21 PM
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Setting aside all ethical concerns and moral feelings I may have about either candidate and just providing a purely analytical assessment of what happened:

In my opinion, the DNC and HRC badly miscalculated the thirst for a true populist this election. They had one in Bernie Sanders, who polled - at certain points - 15 pts ahead of Trump, something Clinton never did even at the height of her upswings. They also miscalculated the desire for a progressive element on the left, and how many of those would stay home for her on election day because they perceive her not to be a progressive, but a corporatist and political opportunist in progressive clothing.

However much the emails and everything else hurt her, I strongly suspect the above hurt her just as much, if not more.

That said, with the dispassionate analysis put aside and returning to my own ethical views: what's done is done, and I for one feel like the most important thing I can do as an individual right now is be conscious and mindful of my words and deeds, in trying to encourage civility and reconciliation between the various "sides" of this country. People can and should disagree with one another - even passionately - but I do not believe they should allow their fears of what the "other side" may do to them to lead us into even deeper division, and yes, hatred.

I may disagree with Trump on just about everything... but what I don't disagree with is that there is a massive population of people on the right who are really, genuinely hurting and angry about it. In jobs, in poverty, in terms of feeling their rights are being curtailed, in feeling there is little hope for that to change under a Democratic administration and/or congress, etc. And here's the thing: Anything the left does they perceive is going to further distance them from the prospect of finding good paying work, or that curtails their second amendment rights, etc. is never going to fly. Those on the left, even if they disagree with it, have to understand and respect - not just dismiss and denigrate - that. It's not going anywhere.

Likewise on the left, there are is very real concern about how minorities and other disadvantaged people are going to be treated under a Trump administration. There is also deep concern about what will happen to safety nets. For instance, I'm disabled and rely on HUD (Section 8) to literally survive. Are deep tax cuts going to result in those programs being slashed and burned? Etc. etc. And I think that too has to be acknowledged and addressed by the right, rather than just dismissing it and saying we don't care about any of that as it shouldn't exist in the first place. The dismissal and denigration by both sides of the other's core values, needs, and fears, is what drives this profound divide. Not any intrinsic "evil" of one side or the other imho.

So how do we bridge those gaps? The first step in my opinion, is saying we actually care about bridging them. If either or both sides simply instead say, "No, we don't want to build bridges, you are the enemy, you are to be detested and obstructed at every step of the way, and crushed underfoot because I simply believe you are wrong, period," then this vicious cycle will simply repeat ad infinitum and will likely become even more combustible going forward. I don't want that. I don't want to live in that future, where compromise is finally and truly impossible and we simply live at each other's throats... and I refuse to contribute to it.

We can and must find ways to coexist. Infinite deepening conflict with intermittent periods of stability is not sustainable in the long term. As corny as it sounds... the antidote to this division is simply put, love. That is, genuine empathetic concern and consideration about the wellbeing, freedom, and happiness of both "sides," by both "sides." Now I know the immediately knee jerk response to that is, "Why should I care about people who did X to me and this country?" I know both sides are thinking that as soon as they read those words. And I understand why. And you're right! Both sides have inflicted things on the other, and that's precisely the problem. Both sides have ignored the very real concerns, fears, and until recently, simmering (now exploding) anger bred by what the other has, from their point of view, done to them.

Both sides must first acknowledge, "You know what? I have absolutely not cared what happens to this half of America, in my pursuit of what my half wants." I have no compunction at all saying both sides are guilty of this. But what do we do when someone is guilty of something? Do we insist upon eternal retribution and recompense? Or do we find a way to fix it, and to change, for the benefit of both?

That's up to every individual, and I can't tell anyone else what to do. Nor will I judge anyone or call them bad people if they don't share my spirit of compromise. But I will never stop at least encouraging it. No matter how much it may seem like anathema to BOTH. No matter how unthinkable it may feel, no matter how deep the anger between both.

Because I don't share that anger. I don't see either side as my enemy. I see both sides as repeatedly wounded, smarting, and angry about that - rightfully so - about real issues that matter deeply to them. And I see my job as a human being as the challenge to care about that and not dismiss it.

I say that as someone who didn't - and couldn't - vote for either of them, and who has no great affection for the Democratic or Republican party. I see a country divided in two, with both sides having very legitimate issues and problems, screaming at one another, rather than acknowledging the real pain and at times even human dignity of the other.

I'm sure what I'm saying will be more unpopular than ever today. But I won't stop saying it. Or respecting the views of those who disagree, no matter how angrily. And that goes for Trump, too. I refuse to hate him or anyone else. I will instead hope for good things, for us all. (While lamenting - but not attacking people for - anything I disagree with that is in store.)

Peace.
edit on 11/9/2016 by AceWombat04 because: Typos

edit on 11/9/2016 by AceWombat04 because: Ditto



posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: eluryh22
a reply to: butcherguy

Of the people that were going to vote for her..... do you think any of them actually changed their minds based on the e-mail stuff or the pay-to-play stuff?


I actually think a lot did. Many dems voted across the aisle. Many more didn't vote at all! That counts as a 'no' vote in her corner. There wasn't enthusiasm in her rallies nor the voting. For a very possible 1st ever 'woman' POTUS, in the beginning she did have a sweeping win. However, she was shown to be a candidate not to be proud of. I saw 3 Clinton signs in a 100 mile radius. Only 1 in my town. People were ashamed to publicly show support of her even if they did want her as POTUS.

As the straws fell upon the camel's back, it broke. So yeah, a lot of people changed their mind. Otherwise, we would see completely different results today.



posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 04:39 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Good question, no matter how I look at the email server situation, she was guilty!



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