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Okay --- so WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS?

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posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs



Sessions: good that he will go after white-collar CEOs. I hope he does the Iceland thing and throws them all in prison.


Well now, I just might like this guy. Ok, so, here's where liberals can find something to agree on and push for. Now, apparently he didn't quite do that in his own state but became tougher in Congress. So, maybe he just needs to be in the right crowd, surrounded by like minded people to push him to do the right thing. I'm all for that.




posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 09:02 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs


I'm not advocating for unemployment.

I'm advocating AGAINST slavery. I wish people would stop thinking that $7 an hour is a living wage. Companies need to pay their EMPLOYEES a living wage before paying their shareholders. THAT needs to stop.

You and I have quite different ideas about what constitutes 'slavery.' Slavery is a horrendous practice wherein one person OWNS another person. It still happens around the globe.

Ownership of a person means they are literally no more than livestock. A slave has no right to food, shelter, water... they are forced to eat whatever their owner makes available, stay where their owner makes them stay. They can be whipped mercilessly with no consequences. They can be mistreated in any way their owner chooses. They make no wage. They have no value outside that appraised by their owner. They have no right to speak, no right to travel, no right to worship. They are property only.

An employee has rights, like the right to choose to not work for that company, the right to go to a home of their choosing after work, the right to worship or not as they see fit, the right to not be abused physically or sexually. An employee is paid wages, and in case of bankruptcy, typically has first claim on company assets.

When you or anyone else equates low-wage employment to slavery, you insult every slave who ever existed. The only reason you get away with it so easily is that slaves can't speak back. They're either owned or dead.

If you want better working conditions (which I do as well), the solution is not to make labor more expensive and thusly drive down the demand. The solution is to drive up the demand and drive down the supply. Economics 101. Demand is driven up by encouraging companies to operate inside the US; supply is driven down by stopping illegal trespassers from adding to the supply. Do that and wages will increase naturally, working conditions will increase naturally, and prices will remain stable. Your solution (raise minimum wage) will move more companies and jobs overseas, thereby drive down demand for labor, and decrease the equilibrium price point. Less people in the US will have any jobs. China and Mexico will do wonderful, though.

We could also set up a way for average people to improve themselves. How about state-sponsored tuition for the top 40% of high school graduates? Free enrollment in the university of their choice for an Associates degree. The top 15% can continue to a Bachelor's, as long as they maintain a 3.25 GPA. The top 7% can go on to a Masters, with the same restrictions. The top 2% can continue to a PhD with the same restriction. Expensive? Yeah, at first... but not when the increased lifetime taxes paid are considered. Then it's a payoff. And that doesn't include the innovation and entrepreneurship factor that a well-educated population will bring.

Everything you propose adds to the issues you claim to want to solve. The reason those poor folk in the hotel are treated the way they are is that they were tricked into trespassing in the first place. The Coyotes promised them how wonderful life would be here, just to get their life savings. Stop illegal entry and you stop the Coyotes. You stop the substandard wages and treatment. You stop the misery. You improve the ability of the people to help others and indirectly support charities. You eventually gain a surplus of jobs that people can enter legally to do and improve their lives as well... without paying criminals to do so.

And yeah... jail time for anyone who knowingly hires illegals. Not fines... jail.

You FIX THE PROBLEM.

And you don't have to demonize anyone to do it.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 09:28 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


Ownership of a person means they are literally no more than livestock. A slave has no right to food, shelter, water... they are forced to eat whatever their owner makes available, stay where their owner makes them stay


Right! Which, as I understand it, is what right-wingers want to do to the "undesirables" who have babies they can't afford (after, of course, forcing them to have the babies to begin with).....
no benefits
part-time work only
not enough to live on (taxpayers pulling up the slack with food stamps, public housing, etc - aren't those the things you want to do away with?)
no health care
no paid sick leave
no family leave

and to add insult to indifference: indebtedness that keeps people trapped on the hamster wheel.

Now please tell me how pennies per hour provides a person with enough to have a roof, food, health-care, clothing, clean water, etc. You can't. Because it doesn't.

You can't pay heads of household the wages a part-time high schooler would settle for and expect them to get by - ESPECIALLY if you aren't going to promote social safety nets like TANF, EBT, Social Security, Disability/Unemployment benefits, OT pay, etc.

I have no sympathy at all for people who live in McMansions and are overextended because of it. They are prisoners of their own making with "payments" piling up so high that they can't breathe. They did it to themselves.

But I do have sympathy for people who are not able to earn enough to live on, and then are assaulted and belittled for needing help.



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 09:44 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'd appreciate a little clarification Buzzy.

You've made some disrespectful and derogatory comments in this thread regarding Christians and the Bible. I'm wondering if they're aimed at all Christians, A specific denomination, (you did mention Evangelicals by name), or a particular subset of beliefs that you're railing against. Might be easier to identify which subset of Christians you don't see as a problem?

And, once you've identified exactly who/what you're so troubled by, what is it that you think needs to be done with "these people"? Should they be barred from holding public office for example. Prevented from voting perhaps?

You've claimed "life shattering abuse" by this as yet unspecified/unclear group towards "their children and their communities". Would you suggest this set of people should have their children taken away, I mean that would be the norm in cases of abuse, wouldn't it?

In a discussion about first steps, in a nation that identifies as somewhere around 70% percent Christian and 25% specifically Evangelical, I think it's important to get clear whether or not you see those sets as "vile" "disgusting" and the like or just some smaller subset of those two groups.

Again, I'd appreciate a little clarification. I don't want to assume I know what you're talking about.



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: desert

Again, that paranoid thinking that relies more on emotion and belief.


The followers, not the leaders.

The leaders use that paranoid, emotional thinking to control the Right.

It still amazes me that they think they are independent thinkers.



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Everything you propose adds to the issues you claim to want to solve. The reason those poor folk in the hotel are treated the way they are is that they were tricked into trespassing in the first place. The Coyotes promised them how wonderful life would be here, just to get their life savings. Stop illegal entry and you stop the Coyotes. You stop the substandard wages and treatment. You stop the misery. You improve the ability of the people to help others and indirectly support charities. You eventually gain a surplus of jobs that people can enter legally to do and improve their lives as well... without paying criminals to do so. And yeah... jail time for anyone who knowingly hires illegals. Not fines... jail.

Labor trafficking is a huge business and it is growing rapidly. Some of us have had to tighten our belts, but most of us haven't started feeling the real impact of the financial decline yet. It is coming. Like the people that stand on the beach and watch the waters recede, puzzled at the odd sight, not realizing that hell is preparing to explode all around them.

With the increase in the number of Americans that are homeless and unemployed, there is an increasing number of Americans that are falling victim to labor trafficking as well. There are so many Americans getting caught up in the web that the division of labor to stop this wickedness is being split between HLS and the FBI.

The FBI pretty much handles the domestic cases while HLS handles the international cases. Almost everyone knows about, or has heard about human trafficking in the sex trade, but few know just how huge the human trafficking labor trade is.

The method of enslavement varies greatly, but almost all rely on the desperation and the ignorance of the victim. Once caught in the web, fear, fraud, and coercion are used to keep the victim ensnared. The raising of wages will do nothing to stop poverty or homelessness, when the cost of living increases at a rate equal to or greater than the minimum wage.

As long as we allow ourselves to be ruled by men, as long as we allow a material society to determine our value, and as long as we allow ourselves to be used as minions and continue to do the bidding of those we have allowed to become our masters, there is no changing this world we live in.

We are being sold a fairy tale. We are walking around trying to convince ourselves and others that we are all dressed in white, when the truth is that we are all naked. Reality check. We all have a price. We all can be bought. We all will willing submit, and we all swallow our pride, along with our tongues, given the right situation.

I often hear people say that would die before they would allow certain things to happen, those people mean well, but they don't realize that there are things in this world that are far worse than death.



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck

I really wish people would stop advocating for unemployment.

TheRedneck


Don't we pay into our own unemployment when we work?



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 10:07 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Oh, I know all about the pennies. I lived it since 2009! Try raising a family of four on $5K/yr. plus food stamps. Try living in a run-down trailer. Try finding better work in a failing economy. Try getting laid off because of a minimum-wage hike. Try huddling up in the winter around one kerosene heater for warmth, thankful you made $20 that week for a can of fuel. Try swallowing every ounce of pride and having to beg the government for help... then get back to me.

I did all that. I didn't get welfare or medicaid... just food stamps. Thank God I didn't have a mortgage or car payment, or I couldn't have made it.

You are disconnected, Buzzy. Badly disconnected. I'm assuming, based on your posts thus far, that you have never written a check for the power bill, then raced to borrow enough money to cover it. I'm guessing you've never told someone you can't come to see them because you can't afford $10 of gas. Must be nice to be you.

Every single policy Obama has put in place has hurt me. Every single one. Obamacare? I didn't make enough to get Obamacare. I made too much to get Medicaid. Minimum wage? Just made me find another job with less hours. Please don't let Obama help me any more!

I did get help in one area: tuition. So I went back to school and got my BSEE. Now I am up to 20K/yr. as an intern and going after my Masters. If not for the WIA initiative, Obama's administration would have closed that door to me too, denying the food stamps.

I did that. Obama didn't. Minimum wage didn't. Open borders didn't. I did it in spite of those 'wonderful' programs, not because of them.

Now you call me an elitist, a bigot, a hate-monger, a zealot...


Just


helping me. I can't afford it.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: Annee


Don't we pay into our own unemployment when we work?

You're thinking about unemployment insurance. It runs out. Trust me.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 10:18 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


You are disconnected, Buzzy. Badly disconnected. I'm assuming, based on your posts thus far, that you have never written a check for the power bill, then raced to borrow enough money to cover it. I'm guessing you've never told someone you can't come to see them because you can't afford $10 of gas. Must be nice to be you.

You are so mistaken that it should embarrass you.

I am a professional social worker, man. I was in the trenches with the homeless, the hungry, the deranged, the despondent. I have definitely told someone I couldn't come to see them - more than once.

I pay ALL the bills in this household,

Now that we have that alarming misconception out of the way --
if a person is not paid enough to live on, the taxpayers have to make up for it. That is why we have social safety nets.
You are absolutely insulting my education, my entire career, and my integrity.

I have been in the public health system myself. I have never asked for government assistance except for using the public health system when my child was born. I have never had to seek unemployment benefits because I made good choices about who to surround myself with.

I spent my 40 hour work week HELPING people who needed help.
You want to rip it out from under them, but take care of the shareholders instead?

Your "guesses" are entirely wrong.



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


Now you call me an elitist, a bigot, a hate-monger, a zealot...

Just

helping me. I can't afford it.

WTF is this?

What??

wow. disconnected indeed.
Do some homework. If you haven't got a clue about the people Trump is choosing, it's on you to research it.
I've done my best. Now who is disrespecting whom? Obama's programs have kept this country from going entirely under. Don't preach to me about low wages, son.

Trickle down doesn't work. Employers who "hire" unpaid or underpaid interns are the problem. Their shareholders are earning money because YOU ARE WILLING to work for 20/per year.

Yes, sir. YES, I have had to borrow money to get bills paid. I have had to ask for deferral on my student loans. I worked for 35 years for never more than 24,000 a year. I worked my ass off. I helped others, often for no pay at all.

So shut up. We're done.
Disrespectful? Yes, you are.

Elitist, hate-monger, zealot? No sir. Those words came out of YOUR mouth, not mine. Try again.
You are wanting to get rid of social safety nets and expect your benevolent employer to see to your needs? LOL!! Good luck with that.


If you'll notice above, I gave an even-handed look at Bannon and Sessions and Pompeo....
you don't even know anything about those guys....so stop acting like you know something, because bub, you don't. You're just crowing the party line. You are utterly mistaken and bamboozled by Trump.

And you STILL haven't answered the questions. See my post to Takeahikesu to see the complaints/allegations.



edit on 11/19/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 10:32 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

So, what you are saying, is the majority of your income comes from the government. (American tax payers)
Or do all your clients pay cash up front ??
Talking to people about there problems does not make them go away, give them a home, job or health care.
I've seen you guys in action since the 60s, sucking the blood out the American workers with these Bravo Sierra
social programs that accomplish absolutely nothing.

Look at what 60 years of LBJ's nonsense has got us ??

A Total Disaster

Buck



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 10:32 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

It is truly beyond my comprehension, Redneck, how your disenfranchised circumstances and insufficient wages make you attack an actual bona fide Social Worker. The GOP would have you starve, you know that, right?

They would eliminate the food stamps that kept you alive. They would retract the public assistance that pays the heating bill for those who can't afford it. They want to remove social security and leave you without health care.

They want to pay you 20/year. And you're OKAY with that?

Good God man. Please come to your senses. It is the GOP and trickle-down nonsense that has put you in that situation, not the Dems. Blame Obama all you want, but you are barking up the wrong tree and cutting off your own nose.

You write well, but your awareness is not on par with your essay-writing, and certainly no match for a professional Social Worker with a Masters in social policy and factoids. Go ahead, hate on me. I'm a real-life, credentialed "Social Justice Warrior" who wants to keep the programs. THAT HELP YOU.

A thankless job, obviously. But someone is still doing it ON YOUR BEHALF. And that is me.
edit on 11/19/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: flatbush71


Talking to people about there problems does not make them go away, give them a home, job or health care.


What?


No, talking doesn't do anything but help them see their options, and not become despondent.

What makes the problems "go away" is appropriate access to social services: health clinics that accept patients who cannot pay, housing for the unemployed and indigent, food stamps for the hungry. I helped people fill out the forms, took them to their appointments, made the appointments for them, then took them and interpreted for them if they did not speak English. Education makes the problems more manageable. Education about how the system works, where to go, who to call, 311 lines.....

bah.

Wasting my breath and time.

I have been the person who shows them how to survive using our social system. And yes, the taxpayers were paying for my services, because we provided them FOR FREE to people who truly needed them. Now there will not even be a program to hire people like me who did all of that.

But that was just my role as a "case manager". I was also a qualified psychotherapist, substance abuse counselor, and parent educator.


edit on 11/19/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 11:29 AM
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I've been both Right and Liberal Left

Today I'm somewhere in the middle - - - I'll call it FAIR - - - the FAIR MIDDLE

How does one change a culture? We have to evolve.

The reality is - - we as a species - - do not need to procreate randomly and irresponsibly to ensure our survival. Less people, less problems.

I propose incentives for those that actually have something to give to society: critical thinkers, artists (of all kinds], water engineers, scientists (all kinds), educators, etc.

Give tax breaks to those who have only one child. Give tax breaks to families who's child makes honor roll. Change cultural thinking.

"Hand Ups" not "Hand Outs" - - I know from personal experience Free Hand Outs over time are not appreciated, they are expected.

"That which is not earned, has no value"



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs



If you don't want them hiring "illegals", then hold the companies accountable.


lol That's exactly what is left out of the equation! And for a darned good reason, as it takes the spotlight off those providing employment.

A few years ago (I remember posting it here), there was a campaign for "English Only" in Alabama, because the good people of Alabama suddenly found themselves with others who didn't speak English. The funny thing is, there had been for years billboards in Mexico in Spanish, "Mucho Trabajo en Russellville, Alabama" along with a special phone number to call so local recruiters could help them get to Alabama for jobs. These billboards could be found in towns all along the US-Mexico border.



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 11:36 AM
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QUESTION: Do we have any kind of government program, national data base, to sponsor a family displaced by war?

I want religion kept out of politics completely, but many churches have sponsored whole families.

To make it clear - - there is a difference between "Political Religion" trying to force their ideology by laws - - - and "God of the Heart" that believe they are to take care of their fellow man.



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Annee


Don't we pay into our own unemployment when we work?

You're thinking about unemployment insurance. It runs out. Trust me.

TheRedneck


Oh, I know it runs out. I lived a real life too.

That old saying is true: "If you have your health, you have everything".

But, I sure fought for all I could, best I could. No slacker here.



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: desert


The funny thing is, there had been for years billboards in Mexico in Spanish, "Mucho Trabajo en Russellville, Alabama" along with a special phone number to call so local recruiters could help them get to Alabama for jobs. These billboards could be found in towns all along the US-Mexico border.


LOL!!!!

Sweet. More evidence that no matter what, people will do what they have to in order to care for their families.



posted on Nov, 19 2016 @ 11:58 AM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

I spent my 40 hour work week HELPING people who needed help.



The current system keeps good people down though.

It doesn't do "Hands Up" for those trying to be independent.

You have to be a complete loser to get assistance.




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