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Republicans, congratulations.

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posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 02:02 PM
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I know your fear of anti-Muslim policies is very real, and I wouldn't dream of nay-saying them. You've reason to be concerned if the rhetoric spewed by Mr. Trump are anything to go by. I sure as Hell would be. Frightened, even.

He doesn't have control of the GOP, assuming he's the "outsider" he is supposed to be--let's just say, I have doubts as to just how "outsider'ish" he is. He could, conceivably, have both a hostile Senate, and House. Gonna be really hard to pass any sort of draconian measures.

Should the worst occur, and some form of anti-Islamic nonsense come to pass, you won't be alone. I, and many, many others will be there with you.

I don't like him. I certainly don't trust him. But, he deserves a fair shot. I'd have said the same thing if Clinton had won. God, I'm glad she didn't...

Hang in there, my friend, you've allies, even if you may not know it.




posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
I know your fear of anti-Muslim policies is very real, and I wouldn't dream of nay-saying them. You've reason to be concerned if the rhetoric spewed by Mr. Trump are anything to go by. I sure as Hell would be. Frightened, even.

He doesn't have control of the GOP, assuming he's the "outsider" he is supposed to be--let's just say, I have doubts as to just how "outsider'ish" he is. He could, conceivably, have both a hostile Senate, and House. Gonna be really hard to pass any sort of draconian measures.

Should the worst occur, and some form of anti-Islamic nonsense come to pass, you won't be alone. I, and many, many others will be there with you.

I don't like him. I certainly don't trust him. But, he deserves a fair shot. I'd have said the same thing if Clinton had won. God, I'm glad she didn't...

Hang in there, my friend, you've allies, even if you may not know it.


The Muslim community should worry less about Trumps policies and more about stopping their violent brothers around the world.



posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 02:45 PM
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I am not happy about the Donald's win, but I was glad to see HRC defeated.

If the Donald was not 1% and did not have a multitude of shady dealing in his past I could feel better about his winning.

That said I feel he will likely be less harmful in general than Hilley. Hilley has shown us through her term as SOS the type of control she would demand of her minions and we would be stuck with her for 8yrs less death came sooner.

I saw this as we the people lose no matter which crook was elected, but I say Hilley was likely the worse of the two choices!

Go away Hilley - go to jail, where you belong!
edit on 9-11-2016 by AlaskanDad because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: AlaskanDad

At the very least, I hope this breaks the Clinton family's stranglehold of the Democratic Party. O'Malley and Biden were both much better candidates than her, but neither had a legit chance against the Clinton machine. And seeing as I voted for Bernie in the primaries, you can probably guess what I think about him.

Unfortunately, I can see them staying on as behind-the-scenes powerbrokers, along with the other Third Way Democrats. I wouldn't mind a "Green Democrats" movement that followed through on Bernie's mission while co-opting the Green Party's progressivism. Maybe that can drag the party back to the Left. Because the current party has become a center-right mess of triangulation and BS. Even now, many of them are still lashing out at the Left Wing, as if their arrogance and treatment of us didn't drive us away in the first place. Meh



posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: seagull


I appreciate it. I think we'll know his true intentions once we see his preferred Cabinet members and advisors. I don't believe for a second that he's an outsider. Though I'd be pleasantly surprised if he stiffs the Congressional Republicans. But I'm not counting on it. I'm just going to assume the Republican will pass a flurry of programs and make good on all of their threats. (insert expletive of choice)

Oh, I'll say something just for the kicks. Both of my parents have already put out the memo to our family from around the country to take our resources out of the market & banks. I think I've mentioned this before, but my Mom's like the defacto "Matriarch" of her family tree, Muslim and Christian alike. I don't think anyone's going to go so far as to sell off properties, but we'll see. The next 2 months or so will be quite interesting, to say the least.



posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Some people or organizations can never see nor admit their part in causing their own problems, they will always find some one else at fault, as such they can never learn from their mistakes.

The dems are a corporate political party, they followed hilley and the corps off the cliff, like the lemmings they are. Did they learn anything from the 2016 election is the real question.

I caucused for Bernie and I voted GREEN and I am happy with that decision; but there was never a chance I could have voted Hilley.



posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 03:54 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Quite the detailed post.


I have to head out again, but I intend to be back in about an hour. Then I'll edit this post to respond in detail lol. I don't want you to think I overlooked you.

ETA: Ok, here we go.



I've chowed down on that humble pie a few times myself. It's an acquired taste.

Same here. After I had my personal "religious revival", God made me eat it quite often. Usually it was because I was too arrogant about something, so He'd put me in check & I'd have to apologize about the situation. Clearly I haven't completely shed that habit, hence this thread.



Immigration: We're talking about illegal immigrants, or those who can not prove who they are. Not legal immigration. I actually want that expended and streamlined. I think Trump does too.

But what are the details for this plan? He and his campaign would always say things like (paraphrased) "we'll stop all Muslim immigration from those countries until we can figure out who's who and what's going on". It's been something like 16 months of that, yet they act like they haven't spent any of that time learning about our current immigration guidelines. In other words, I think their plan will be indefinite since they don't seem to have the slightest interest in actually finding out "what's going on" or how to "fix" it.

As for Latino/Latino illegal immigration, I have my doubts there too. It's not a coincidence that Texas under both Dubya and Rick Perry had massive amounts of illegal immigration and undocumented workers. Even the conservatives in my State don't seem to have a problem hiring illegal immigrants and undocumented workers for the cheap labor. And since Trump will still be dealing with a Republican controlled Congress that will be the ones actually passing the laws, I have no doubts that they'll continue their traditional immigration policies. That means I expect we'll see more of the same, meaning they'll keep the stigma of illegal immigration vilified in order to guarantee that cheap labor pool won't be able to get labor rights & benefits.



A student is always legal, especially one with a scholarship. I can see no other way that could happen. So a new immigration policy enforcing the border and opening the legal channels would help your father, not hurt him.

Isn't that basically the "DREAM Act"? Once again, if I recall correctly, congressional Republicans were against that. So I'm doubtful they'll suddenly start caring about those students now.



Religious freedom: I am an aging redneck from the deep heart of Alabama. Do you think I want to ban all of the Muslim faith?

I don't think Trump does either. He's only responding to those who abuse the religion to excuse terrorism. No one else.

If he's really against terrorism, he needs to focus on the extremist branch of the Wahhabism sect. Because right now, it doesn't sound like he differentiates at all when it comes to Muslims. So I'm skeptical of his intentions until I see reasons not to be.



Obamacare has failed my friend. The premiums are skyrocketing, the number of options are decreasing, deductibles are through the roof... and folks like me still have to rely on charity when we get ill. There are a few things that were good in it, and those should be included in a replacement plan. But as I see it, the plan overall has failed and needs to be replaced with one that works.

I don't like Obamacare/ACA in general, mostly because I want true single payer healthcare.


However, I think people seem to have forgotten how bad it was for millions of Americans before it became law. Not only are there something like 22 million Americans w/healthcare now that didn't have it before Obamacare, but we also no longer have to worry about "pre-existing conditions". Remember the horror stories of patients paying premiums for years only to be cut off once they finally needed healthcare? That's why I usually emphasize that Obamacare/ACA needs to be replaced with something. But I've yet to see any real plan for the Repubs to replace it with, which leads me to believe we'll go back to "pre-existing conditions" if they repeal it outright.



I don't think the country will stand for an overturn of Roe vs. Wade... I wouldn't want to see abortion criminalized... but maybe restrictions on partial birth abortions. But I see that as common sense. If it is a child now, it was a child two seconds ago on the other side of some flesh.

But didn't Trump flat out say he'd nominate Justices that will overturn Roe v Wade? I want to say it was the 2nd or 3rd debate, but I don't remember. Either way, the Republicans will have full control of both chambers of Congress and the ability to select their Supreme Court justice to replace Scalia. If they were ever going to follow through on their anti-abortion threats, now is the most likely time they'd do so. Though it's also ironic that the people who claim they want liberty, individuality, and govt to stay out of people's lives also wants to let govt decide what women do with their bodies. Meh.



Gay marriage is a tricky one, given. There is also the issue of a state's right to govern itself.

But this will conflict with the 14th Amendment. In fact, the 14th Amendment was also the basis for the Supreme Court decision that struck down the anti-interracial marriage laws in the 1960s. So it's not really a State's rights issue.



The Iran deal was a mess from the start. We need to stop trying to control Iran and start talking to them. I think Trump will reset that whole dynamic, just as he plans to do with Russia, Iran's ally. Clinton angered Russia and openly admitted she planned to continue doing so.

I hope you're right. I'm tired of these pointless wars and I have no beef with Iran or its people.



I know, my friend, these all sound pretty scary, but as I said... I will cry long and loud if I see anyone's rights being trampled upon, no matter who is doing the trampling. And there's a lot more like me. Those you see as potential enemies can also be seen as potential allies.

You're probably right. But my emotions are admittedly still a bit raw. Though I don't see conservatives as true enemies, just as ideological opponents. I still want you all to have happy, productive, and fulfilling lives; I just want you all to adopt my policy positions.


edit on 9-11-2016 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-11-2016 by enlightenedservant because: typos



posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

You have legitimate concerns. I want to quell some of that fear.

I'm heading to class now, so it'll be a couple hours before I can respond. But I will respond.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: Steak

The Muslim community here in the states are Americans. They have the right to be concerned about bloody Donald Trumps attitudes towards them.

As for what happens with their religious brethren around the world, how the Hell is it their **bleepin'** responsibility? They don't live in the areas where the fanatics run wild in the streets. They live here. Let them be concerned about here. Just like you should be. Just like I should be.

Maybe if we were a bit less **bleepin'** concerned about "there", and more about "here", there would be less blood in the damned streets in the world. Thought about that? Ever?

Muslims in America are, by and large, no more or less peaceful than the rest of us. To treat them like they're some sort of danger is, to quote someone, bullsnype.



posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 05:59 PM
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a reply to: AlaskanDad

The ironic thing is the Democratic Party and Republican Party followed 2 completely different paths when it came to their energetic bases. The Republican Party embraced and co-opted the Tea Party, and took control of Congress by harnessing it for their own goals.

But the Democratic Party has shunned and bashed the actual progressives and our policy goals. They're even more hostile to us than the Republicans are, which is baffling. Don't get me wrong, I understand why the corporate wing of the party does it. After all, why would friends of Wall Street and former Wall Street executives support the Occupy movement? But for them to tell us they don't need us and yet act like they're entitled to our votes? WTF?



Did they learn anything from the 2016 election is the real question.

Only time will tell. Though an early indicator will be if they keep their weak leadership in place. I mean people like Chuck Schumer and the others who have crafted this mess. Ironically, they could really use someone like Obama (either one) to lead the DNC, since at least they both have high approval ratings and can possibly stop the desertion of party members.



I caucused for Bernie and I voted GREEN and I am happy with that decision; but there was never a chance I could have voted Hilley.

I have a simple rule when voting: vote for the most progressive candidate. But I won't lie, I felt a part of my idealism die last night. I think it's insane to work so hard and make so much progress only for a reset button to be hit that nullifies everything that was previously done. I still need some time to see if I'll modify my political ideals or not.



posted on Nov, 9 2016 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: seagull

Exactly. It's like blaming atheists in Oregon for China's anti-religious crackdowns on the Falun Gong members.



posted on Nov, 10 2016 @ 07:02 AM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Steak

The Muslim community here in the states are Americans. They have the right to be concerned about bloody Donald Trumps attitudes towards them.

As for what happens with their religious brethren around the world, how the Hell is it their **bleepin'** responsibility? They don't live in the areas where the fanatics run wild in the streets. They live here. Let them be concerned about here. Just like you should be. Just like I should be.

Maybe if we were a bit less **bleepin'** concerned about "there", and more about "here", there would be less blood in the damned streets in the world. Thought about that? Ever?

Muslims in America are, by and large, no more or less peaceful than the rest of us. To treat them like they're some sort of danger is, to quote someone, bullsnype.


Maybe you missed it but Muslim Terrorist are now carrying out attacks in the USA. And their Muslim friends/families let it happen (multiple times now). Once again - I think Muslim's need to worry less about Trump and more about getting their hate filled/violent communities under control.



posted on Nov, 10 2016 @ 08:10 AM
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a reply to: Steak

Just a head's up, but your trolling is a bit soft. At least put some effort into it like everyone else does, such as misquoting some scriptures or listing some raw facts about Muslim-related terrorism in the USA.

To get you started, how about listing how many Americans have been killed by Muslim-related terrorism this year? If you can find that number, I want you to then compare it to the number of Americans killed every year by drunk drivers, cancer, the flu, police, mass shootings, or their spouses. If your goal is actually to help save lives, this little exercise should make it clear what the real danger is.

You're welcome, bro.


ETA: Since I'm feeling particularly generous this fine morning, I'll give you some good links to get started with. This officially lists the leading causes of death for Americans every year.

Leading Causes of Death

And here's an unofficial count of the number of deaths related to police.

The Guradian's "The Counted"

And here's an unofficial list of the terrorist attacks and related incidences in the US. They're listed by the year, so scroll down to the bottom to see the ones for 2016.

Terrorist attacks and related incidents in the United States
edit on 10-11-2016 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2016 @ 08:26 AM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Steak

Just a head's up, but your trolling is a bit soft. At least put some effort into it like everyone else does, such as misquoting some scriptures or listing some raw facts about Muslim-related terrorism in the USA.

To get you started, how about listing how many Americans have been killed by Muslim-related terrorism this year? If you can find that number, I want you to then compare it to the number of Americans killed every year by drunk drivers, cancer, the flu, police, mass shootings, or their spouses. If your goal is actually to help save lives, this little exercise should make it clear what the real danger is.

You're welcome, bro.


ETA: Since I'm feeling particularly generous this fine morning, I'll give you some good links to get started with. This officially lists the leading causes of death for Americans every year.

Leading Causes of Death

And here's an unofficial count of the number of deaths related to police.

The Guradian's "The Counted"

And here's an unofficial list of the terrorist attacks and related incidences in the US. They're listed by the year, so scroll down to the bottom to see the ones for 2016.

Terrorist attacks and related incidents in the United States


Wow - so you're saying it's ok for Muslim's to kill Americans because more people die in car crashes and have cancer? You really have no clue. And sorry - but people like you are not worth my effort. Enjoy the next 4 years - hopefully you'll be less ignorant by then and vote for Trump.


edit on 10-11-2016 by Steak because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2016 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Sorry to butt in here, but it's early, I arrived an hour ahead of my seminar thanks to some idiot in IT, and that all sorta makes my fingers itchy...

The problem you speak of is related to perception, not to facts. By the facts, my smoking is a minor issue; try telling that to Joe Public. Instead of having smoke-free areas, we need to have car-free zones.

With terrorism, the whole point is to shock and terrorise. The purpose is to instill fear in a population. Fear is perception, and the uninformed (the majority), respond to perception far faster than they do to facts.

Muslims really do have a huge problem on their hands.

I was happy, after the Orlando shooting, to see Muslim leaders standing with local officials to condemn the violence. That's a good example of what is needed to combat the issue. It's a tough row to hoe, and unfair in many ways, but it is what it is. I have been down a similar but admittedly far less dangerous road with Westboro Baptist Church. They do NOT represent me or my religion, and I speak out against them every given opportunity.

That's what it's going to take to solve the Muslim issue. Thankfully, that's already started and I hope it continues. You, personally, are doing your part; I have seen that. I hope more join you. We have quite enough hate right now.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 10 2016 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

But that's the point. It's only about perception because people refuse to look for the truth. The link I listed above shows a whopping 64 or so Islamic terrorism related deaths in the US this year. In comparison, more than 500,000 Americans die every year from cancers, more than 600,000 Americans die every year from heart disease, and even police have killed more than 900 Americans this year. Even more than 1,000 American kids die every year from child abuse and child neglect.

It's not our fault that people are obsessed with fear. Put it like this, this culture craves fear so much that horror movies, haunted houses, murder mysteries are used just to give an artificial stimulus of fear. Even relatively boring events like camping and sleepovers are "spiced up" with ghost stories and scary folk legends. I wouldn't mind this if real people weren't negatively affected by it.

As for more Muslims needing to speak up, I'll echo a previous sentence: It's only perceived that way because people refuse to look for the truth. Just be honest for a second, have you taken the time to google "Muslim statements against terrorism"?

ETA: I'm asking that because there have been countless thousands of Muslim leaders and religious scholars who've spoken out against terrorism. They've put out countless joint statements against it, issued fatwas against it ("fatwas" are literally "religious suggestions"), etc. And if you google that phrase, you'll even see joint statements by thousands of Muslims in one area, 10s of thousands of Muslims in another region, etc, all condemning terrorism.

So the question is this: If so many Muslims are speaking out against terrorism, why do you never hear about it? That's not a problem of perception and it's not a problem for Muslims; that's a problem of media not reporting it and citizens not caring enough to look for themselves. You can't blame us for that.
edit on 10-11-2016 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2016 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: Steak

No, I'm saying your trolling is subpar and that you don't actually care about saving lives. You just want an excuse to justify your hatred.



posted on Nov, 10 2016 @ 09:42 AM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Steak

No, I'm saying your trolling is subpar and that you don't actually care about saving lives. You just want an excuse to justify your hatred.


No, that is what you said - and further you insult me as a troll - hence you're the one filled with hate.



posted on Nov, 10 2016 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Don't mistake my comments for blame. I for one do not blame the whole of Muslim society (ack, I despise using that term... it seems so seperatist), I only point out the character flaws in general society. Those needing the blame are the Jihadists.

People typically do not seek out that which is not immediately important at that moment in time. They instead prefer to continue through their day in a habitual manner. When something unusual happens, that is when they look for knowledge. Media news is a part of that habituality; we are trained to turn on the local news at 5:00 each day. Once there, a person sitting behind an official-looking desk tells us what they think we need to know and what they think we should think about it.

It's a highly effective methodology.

The example I gave of Muslim leaders happened at a press conference, so there was no good way to isolate it from the public view. I want to see more of that kind of response because it is integrated with the propaganda rationing we are all accustomed to. The statements you mention (which I have seen, because I searched for them) are buried in the maze of information overload called the Internet. I do not say I want Muslims to say it more... they already say it. I want it more accessible.

Unfortunately, another of those character flaws in humans is that they are visual. If someone is walking down the street and attacked by a gang of Asians, they would be combative if an Asian tried to help them. We tend to place far too much faith in first visual impressions, and not nearly enough in analysis beyond that.

It's not fair, but it is what it is.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 10 2016 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck



Unfortunately, another of those character flaws in humans is that they are visual. If someone is walking down the street and attacked by a gang of Asians, they would be combative if an Asian tried to help them. We tend to place far too much faith in first visual impressions, and not nearly enough in analysis beyond that.

Ironically, we wouldn't have the rampant anti-Islam hysteria if the majority of people were actually like this. People are generally killed, raped, and assaulted by members of their own demographic. This is true across the board. But people are also generally much less likely to loathe their own demographic, because it includes friends, family, and extended family. So they look for scapegoats to blame instead of looking at themselves.

Put it like this, just think about any crimes or suspected crimes that have happened with your own community and/or city. Look at all of the DUIs and victims of DWI-related car wrecks. Think about all of the domestic abuse cases; the reported rapes; the reported child abuses cases; the drug overdoses and drug dealing cases. Then think about all of the bar fights or brawls at clubs; the local gangs/crime scene; the riots or "vandalism" in a large city nearby, etc. And think about anyone you know who's ever been robbed, shot, or killed for any reason whatsoever.

Now be honest, how many of the perpetrators were Muslims? Other than soldiers or defense contractors who've gone overseas to fight Muslims, how many people have you personally known who were assaulted, raped, robbed, or killed by Muslims in your own city, community, or State? I'll go out on a limb and guess that the number is either non-existent or incredibly small, especially when compared to the non-Muslims who've done those things to the victims you know or have seen. So if people were really visual about this kind of thing, we'd be seeing a vastly different narrative. And if the media reported the religious affiliations of every criminal when reporting on crimes, people would also get a much different narrative.

Ironically, Islam has pretty much always had the opposite perception in most African American communities. We're generally seen as the ones who don't smoke, drink, eat unhealthy, commit crimes, or absorb the "poisons" of "Babylon". There are numerous African American pop culture examples, but 2 obvious ones would be in the movie "Boyz in the Hood" or the 1st verse of 2Pac's song "I Ain't Mad At Cha".


Then again, Muslims have been in African American communities since the times of slavery. Our familes are generally Christian majority, but have Muslims mixed throughout them. We're not an unfamiliar and/or foreign scapegoat like we apparently are in other demographics here. We live together, go to schools together, do entertainment together, etc.

So I think most of this comes down to a point you mentioned earlier. It's all about the way people here are programmed. Their preferred news outlets only mention Islam when there's something negative to report. And they virtually never mention Islam when a Muslim celebrity is onscreen, since that would ruin the narrative (such as Ice Cube, Shaq, Dave Chappelle, crazy Mike Tyson, Dr. Oz, etc). But the truth is out there if people actually want to learn it.




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