LEAKED paper confirms NASA warp drive

a reply to: ms898

Here is the only thing about EMdrive that matters:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: fractal5

That is the one made by Cannae. The "leaked" paper is the tests performed on the original Shawyer drive. They both use Shawyer's designs and do the same thing. They are just made by different people.

And either one showing real amounts of thrust is fine by me! Get me off this rock as all the monkeys have gone insane...

I found the leaked paper...

drive.google.com...

Here is an article that provides the link to the above as the source...

Here’s the 411 on the EmDrive: the ‘physics-defying’ thruster even NASA is puzzled over
A leaked NASA paper points to a working EmDrive


An EmDrive paper has finally been accepted by peer review

Originally, this article pointed out that previous studies and papers on the EmDrive have either not been submitted, or passed peer review. Those days are in the past, however, given a NASA Eagleworks’ paper on the EmDrive test which has reportedly passed the peer review process and will soon be published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics’ AIAA Journal of Propulsion and Power.

This is an important step for the EmDrive as it adds legitimacy to the technology and the tests done thus far, opening the door for other groups to replicate the tests. This will also allow other groups to devote more resources to uncovering why and how it works, and how to iterate on the drive to make it a viable form of propulsion. So, while a single peer-reviewed paper isn’t going to suddenly equip the human race with interplanetary travel, it’s the first step toward eventually realizing that possible future.

Read more: www.digitaltrends.com...
Follow us: @digitaltrends on Twitter | DigitalTrends on Facebook


Read more: www.digitaltrends.com...
Follow us: @digitaltrends on Twitter | DigitalTrends on Facebook

www.digitaltrends.com...

a reply to: Kashai

Here is the PDF itself from a place called thisweekintomorrow.com: Measurement of impulsive Thrust from a Closed Radio Frequency Cavity in Vacuum.

Not sure if it is kosher to link this so Mods feel free to do your thing.

It is interesting reading! Lots of graphs, a couple pictures, and an explanation of the set up used at the Johnson Space Center. They did a forward, a reverse, and "null" thrust both at ambient and under vacuum. All the results were the same. The null thrust is perpendicular to the measurement tool to rule out any effect the tool may be imparting upon the engine--there was none.

Result: thrust produced in both atmosphere and vacuum condition at the same measured rates per kW applied. Each run was done three times in vacuum(so three forward, three reverse, three null) for a total of nine. The abstract states it as the last line, "1.2 +/- 0.1 mN/kW" of thrust produced and measured with all other possible sources accounted for.

"Yet it moves"

[ETA: On p. 29 there is a historic overview of quantum mechanics that leads up to what they think is going on in the EMdrive. Good stuff!]

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF


One way of considering how, is that it is the result of a quantum effect.

a reply to: Kashai

Just finished. The quantum fluctuations are what they think is being pushed off of when guiding the em towards the plate. The quantum portion ripples out the open end while a thrust velocity goes the other way against the plate.

From the paper:

If the vacuum is indeed mutable and degradable as was explored [in the preceding paragraphs], then it might be possible to do/extract work on/from on the vacuum, and thereby be possible to push off the quantum vacuum and preserve the Laws of Conservation of Energy and Conservation of Momentum

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Q. Why does the EmDrive not contravene the conservation of momentum when it operates in free space?

A. The EmDrive cannot violate the conservation of momentum. The electromagnetic wave momentum is built up in the resonating cavity, and is transferred to the end walls upon reflection. The momentum gained by the EmDrive plus the momentum lost by the electromagnetic wave equals zero. The direction and acceleration that is measured, when the EmDrive is tested on a dynamic test rig, comply with Newton's laws and confirm that the law of conservation of momentum is satisfied.

emdrive.com...

It would seem the interference pattern generated in the EM Drive looks much like a Warp Bubble would look like....


www.inquisitr.com...


Further...

mysteriousuniverse.org...

Not to suggest that an EM Drive can travel that fast but it does seem possible that we have something to learn from the EM drive in relation to generating a Warp Bubble.

Actually the title may not be as misleading as first thought. Can't remember where but I read an article a few days ago in which scientists were suggesting that the EM drives thrust could be created by the warping of space time within the drive chamber, the proposed evidence for this being light traveling at speeds higher than the speed of light within the chamber. However more tests were needed to confirm the result.

If confirmed though you could call the EM drive a kind of warp drive (maybe internal warp drive). It wouldn't be the traditional idea of a warp drive (Star Trek style) as the warp bubble would only exist within the chamber instead of surrounding the ship and therefor wouldn't be able to break the speed of light, but it could be using the warping of space-time to create thrust. Therefore warp drive may be an adequate description.

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Q. Why does the EmDrive not contravene the conservation of momentum when it operates in free space?

A. The EmDrive cannot violate the conservation of momentum. The electromagnetic wave momentum is built up in the resonating cavity, and is transferred to the end walls upon reflection. The momentum gained by the EmDrive plus the momentum lost by the electromagnetic wave equals zero. The direction and acceleration that is measured, when the EmDrive is tested on a dynamic test rig, comply with Newton's laws and confirm that the law of conservation of momentum is satisfied.

emdrive.com...

This answer is total nonsense.

Where does the em wave get its momentum from (before transferring it to the cavity)?

a reply to: moebius

1.
Q. Is the thrust produced by the EmDrive a reactionless force?

A. No, the thrust is the result of the reaction between the end plates of the waveguide and the Electromagnetic wave propagated within it.
2.
Q. How can a net force be produced by a closed waveguide?

A. At the propagation velocities (greater than one tenth the speed of light) the effects of special relativity must be considered. Different reference planes have to be used for the EM wave and the waveguide itself. The thruster is therefore an open system and a net force can be produced.
3.

Q. Why does the net force not get balanced out by the axial component of the sidewall force?

A. The net force is not balanced out by the axial component of the sidewall force because there is a highly non linear relationship between waveguide diameter and group velocity. (e.g. at cut off diameter, the group velocity is zero, the guide wavelength is infinity, but the diameter is clearly not zero.) The design of the cavity is such that the ratio of end wall forces is maximized, whilst the axial component of the sidewall force is reduced to a negligible value.

From the same link.

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: moebius

1.
Q. Is the thrust produced by the EmDrive a reactionless force?

A. No, the thrust is the result of the reaction between the end plates of the waveguide and the Electromagnetic wave propagated within it.
2.
Q. How can a net force be produced by a closed waveguide?

A. At the propagation velocities (greater than one tenth the speed of light) the effects of special relativity must be considered. Different reference planes have to be used for the EM wave and the waveguide itself. The thruster is therefore an open system and a net force can be produced.
3.

Q. Why does the net force not get balanced out by the axial component of the sidewall force?

A. The net force is not balanced out by the axial component of the sidewall force because there is a highly non linear relationship between waveguide diameter and group velocity. (e.g. at cut off diameter, the group velocity is zero, the guide wavelength is infinity, but the diameter is clearly not zero.) The design of the cavity is such that the ratio of end wall forces is maximized, whilst the axial component of the sidewall force is reduced to a negligible value.

From the same link.

More nonsense.

Do you understand what you are quoting?

a reply to: moebius


Do not claim to be an expert just presenting a related link.


Would you care to elaborate as up until a few years ago EM drive was considered nonsense?

To be honest I consider the issue as related to quantum mechanics.

EmDrive (Q Thruster) and Warp bubble research update 8-13–2016

Addendum 8-1-2016: It has been reported that in March of this year Paul March, an engineer at NASA Eagleworks,  revealed that a scientific paper on the EmDrive is under peer review and that verification experiments will be conducted at three independent labs including at John Hopkins Applied Physics  Laboratory. A significant delay can be expected since a well considered peer review will await the results at the independent labs.  It may be fairly assumed that no paper would have been submitted without positive experimental results but whether these results will or can be duplicated remains to be seen. Stay tuned!

jamesstaffordauthor.wordpress.com...

Pretty good link that provides some history and elaborates on the topic.

Results

White announced the first results of his interferometer experiment at a 2013 space conference. According to White, these results showed a vanishing but non-zero difference between charged and uncharged states after signal processing, but this difference remains inconclusive due to external interference and limits in the computational processing.[9][11] It is now clear that no exotic matter is involved in such an experiment but some other concept is being used.[12][13]

en.wikipedia.org...

I'll believe it when I see it.