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California woman faces possible jail time for selling signature dish online

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posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: goou111

Wow you sit high on that horse huh?

How many times have you fed your kids friends? Were you licensed to do that? Why is that ok but as soon as someone gives you 5 bucks you face jail time?



If you can't see a difference between serving a kid in your house and selling RAW FISH to the public then you have a problem. That would make you the exact kind of stupid that food hygeine laws are made to protect.




posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

I think you misunderstand. This is not about the need for food inspection; what you do is vitally important. It is about the scope of what you do. Did this woman
  • Receive a substantial part of her income from selling food?
  • Openly advertise for customers?
  • Knowingly produce food for others which led to a serious disease or death?

If the answer to any of those is 'yes' I withdraw my argument and commend the regulators for their actions. But if not, I believe they are (or at least should be) operating outside their jurisdiction.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

If someone wants pay someone else for some food why the he'll do the cops need to be involved?

Why the hell can't the consumer be responsible for what they buy and eat?
edit on 7-11-2016 by goou111 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: PraetorianAZ
Whats next is soon they wont let us even cook food in our own homes anymore without classes and a permit. They will say its for our own good and we have to buy precooked food at certain government establishments until we can prove we know how to cook. Im calling it now.


This is NOT the next thing to happen. This is the kind of ignorance I deal with daily. If you want to chow down on raw chicken that is your right. It is not your right to serve poison to others.

As I already said, should you like to protest government regulation of food and water, feel free to go drink the water in the gutter outside your house. That'll show us fascist health inspectors. Rest assured we'll still be there to do a foodbourne illness investigation to find out why you got sick and even if you die. That's just one of the many things we do.

Hell we should stop testing for HIV in donor blood too. If people don't want HIV they shouldn't get blood transfusions.

Just because you don't know somebody that died from foodbourne illness doesn't change the fact that it happens every day. You're very fortunate to operate under the protection that people like me work to ensure is in place. Every day, without regard for social class or standing, I make sure what you eat and drink is safe.

Thanks for making me seem like a Nazi though. The worst part of my job is that people, the same people we strive to protect, denigrate what we do. I sometimes wonder why we bother.


Dang. So dont bother. Look at it as natural selection. We need more of this today than you could imagine.

The point your missing here is I am an American with freedom of choice. If I choose to drink gutter water then I am also accepting the risk that I might get Ecoli and other illnesses. If I choose the roach coach over a 5 star steak dinner I am accepting the risk that I might crap water for a day afterward. If I want to buy my clothes from goodwill instead of Dillards then I accept the risk the clothes might smell or have stains or crabs. I dont need the government telling me what I can and cannot do in a transaction with one another American.

You sound like the kind of guy that would buy a used car and then call the seller up a month later complaining when it breaks down.

Havent you ever heard the saying "Caveat Emptor"?



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Ksihkehe

I think you misunderstand. This is not about the need for food inspection; what you do is vitally important. It is about the scope of what you do. Did this woman
  • Receive a substantial part of her income from selling food?
  • Openly advertise for customers?
  • Knowingly produce food for others which led to a serious disease or death?

If the answer to any of those is 'yes' I withdraw my argument and commend the regulators for their actions. But if not, I believe they are (or at least should be) operating outside their jurisdiction.

TheRedneck


I disagree with this absurd sting. In reality where I am we would likely not even investigate this. This is an urban health department with too much money to spend. I don't chase down people that may or may not have sold a couple items. RAW fish though, would certainly put them on the radar.

Selling something that makes a person sick or kills them is not a barometer for regulation. If they make a person Ill or kill them it's too late. Even if it was not her primary source of income she could make many people ill or kill them. If she wanted a side business she could make cakes or breads. RAW fish is not something you sell out of your house. It's an incredibly high risk food. The last county I worked in, not even a big one, somebody died from raw seafood.

You also need to remember that some seafood is deadly even if it gets cooked properly. Being licensed means the food comes from an inspected and legitimate source. Do you want a child or pregnant woman eating raw fish from a contaminated pond?

This lady could sell her recipe. Instead she was selling a raw fish dish for consumption to the public. No idea where it came from. No regulation.



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: PraetorianAZ

You have a right to eat or drink whatever you want. People do not have the right to sell things to others for consumption that might kill them. Big difference.

You can eat a dead rat from the side of the road should you wish. You don't have the right to serve it to somebody for compensation.

Individual freedom is not endangering others.



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 10:46 AM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Ksihkehe

I think you misunderstand. This is not about the need for food inspection; what you do is vitally important. It is about the scope of what you do. Did this woman
  • Receive a substantial part of her income from selling food?
  • Openly advertise for customers?
  • Knowingly produce food for others which led to a serious disease or death?

If the answer to any of those is 'yes' I withdraw my argument and commend the regulators for their actions. But if not, I believe they are (or at least should be) operating outside their jurisdiction.

TheRedneck


Do you want a child or pregnant woman eating raw fish from a contaminated pond?



Well that pregnant woman should be aware of the risks she takes and the parents of the child should be aware as well. If they are knowingly buying food from an unlicensed establishment then it is their responsibility to understand the risk. If thats a risk she is willing to take to save a couple bucks then sit down and shut up.



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 10:50 AM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: PraetorianAZ

You have a right to eat or drink whatever you want. People do not have the right to sell things to others for consumption that might kill them. Big difference.

You can eat a dead rat from the side of the road should you wish. You don't have the right to serve it to somebody for compensation.

Individual freedom is not endangering others.


Caveat emptor
Caveat emptor
Caveat emptor
Caveat emptor
Caveat emptor
Caveat emptor

I should have the ability to serve anything I want to people as long as they are aware of the risks involved. If they dont like the risks then they don't have to buy. Isnt America wonderful.

As a great Chinese man once said in the movie dont be a menace "You don't like? You Don't Buy". Simple as that.



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 10:58 AM
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originally posted by: PraetorianAZ

I should have the ability to serve anything I want to people as long as they are aware of the risks involved. If they dont like the risks then they don't have to buy. Isnt America wonderful.

As a great Chinese man once said in the movie dont be a menace "You don't like? You Don't Buy". Simple as that.


YOU are going to explain the risks? Well good for you - - ONE - - person.

Bet the 54 year old woman who died eating homemade potato salad wished she'd been warned.. But wait, the maker of the potato salad was unaware of its danger. (and this was free food)

There is a reason for food laws.

Contaminated potato salad to blame for deadly botulism at Ohio church potluck dinner



LANCASTER, Ohio (CNN)– Local and state health officials say potato salad made with home-canned potatoes is to blame for the more than 20 cases of botulism in Lancaster, Ohio, last week. All of those who are sick ate at a potluck dinner at Cross Pointe Free Will Baptist Church on April 19. Health officials tested leftover food samples obtained from the trash and interviewed ill patients to determine what common food all of them ate. As of Tuesday, there were 21 confirmed cases of botulism and 10 more suspected cases, according to Ohio Department of Health spokesperson Shannon Libby. That includes the death of a 54-year-old woman. The ill patients were treated at area hospitals with an antitoxin from the Strategic National Stockpile provided by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. fox8.com...



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: PraetorianAZ

Well, genius, if they are not regulated how do you know if they're licensed. Just take their word for it?

So in your world I can sell sawdust blended with some lead and mercury for baby food. If the parents don't like it they can change brands. Maybe we just throw some dirt, roaches, and sour milk, right into the vitamix and sell it as a protein shake. If they don't like it they can stop buying it.

You have a right to eat and drink whatever you want. You do not have a right to sell poison for consumption. Do you want the grocery store to be able to start grinding up their trash and putting it in the ground beef?



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 11:09 AM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: PraetorianAZ

Well, genius, if they are not regulated how do you know if they're licensed. Just take their word for it?

So in your world I can sell sawdust blended with some lead and mercury for baby food. If the parents don't like it they can change brands. Maybe we just throw some dirt, roaches, and sour milk, right into the vitamix and sell it as a protein shake. If they don't like it they can stop buying it.

You have a right to eat and drink whatever you want. You do not have a right to sell poison for consumption. Do you want the grocery store to be able to start grinding up their trash and putting it in the ground beef?


Everything you have just described sounds exactly what we are getting anyway when you buy food here in the states.

And to your first statement if you are wondering if someone has paid their fine to sell food ask to see a certificate. If they don't have one don't buy their food. Its as simple as that.

So in your word yes you can sell some sawdust blended with some lead and mercury for baby food. But am I going to buy it? No way. I have enough common sense and love for my children to only purchase quality products from licensed establishments. But should I have the choice to buy sawdust blended with some lead and mercury for baby food. You bet.

Caveat emptor



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 11:26 AM
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a reply to: PraetorianAZ

Have a nice life. It's about all I can say. We're never going to agree or come to a compromise. You want to be able to check their license but don't want it required. If it isn't required then no business will do it.

The whole premise of public health is to protect the public. Not just people that can afford shopping at Whole Foods. Everybody deserves the right to safe food and water.



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: Annee

Well Annee I have disagreed with you frequently and vigorously, but I'm glad we have some common ground here. You fascist


Apparently I am also now a left-wing fascist on this topic.



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 11:48 AM
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I don't believe that every person who cooks from home and is not licensed is by default dirty or careless about the food they sell. I have a neighbor who does exactly that; she's a single old lady and she's making a bit of extra by selling home made food. She's extremely clean and her food is excellent, and she's only doing it on Fridays, before weekend. She have a small group of people who buy from her every week, she never advertise or ask for new customers. Everyone who buys from her is coming into her home, see how and where she cooks; they are long time customers and they know she doesn't have a license.
But...
As a private person I am happy she can make a living on her own because she is really good and she's working very hard for her age. But, god forbidden, it only takes one mistake, one sick person from her food or a sensitive kid and she will pay a very heavy price for it, and that will be really regretful at her age. I'm not sure is worth the risk. I know I wouldn't do it.

Not everyone is as clean and careful as my neighbor is, and I fully understand why the authorities cannot just turn a blind eye to stuff like this. And there is only so much warning you can give a person who doesn't want to listen.
Those regulations are in place so we can buy and eat food without fear for our life; if someone wants to cook from home, even on a small scale then they should get through the trouble of getting a permit. For everyone's sake...


edit on 7-11-2016 by WhiteHat because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

I'm glad to see we agree on this particular case: absurd.

But again you fail to catch my meaning here:

Even if it was not her primary source of income she could make many people ill or kill them.

Never did I ask if it was her primary source of income. I asked if it was a substantial part of her income. As in, was it enough to need to be reported on taxes? Was it less than 1% of her overall income? Did she depend on it for a portion of her living expenses?

Or was it a few bucks "butter and egg" money?

If anyone wishes to run a business, I agree they should be inspected and verified. However, I do not see selling a dish she eats herself to someone who asked to buy it a business. That is a personal transaction.

To personalize this: I raise chickens for eggs. I have given friends some eggs before. Now eggs are easily contaminated. I have no business license to let four hens and a rooster run around my yard and shoot eggs out their butt. So should I be prosecuted for giving friends some eggs?

What about if I got, say, 8 hens? My yard is plenty large enough. Then suppose my neighbor asked me if they could buy some free-range eggs? So I sell them a dozen eggs a week for, say, $2. Do I need a business license?

Let's say I get 30-40 more hens and talk to the local country store about selling them the eggs for resale? Now do I need a business license and inspections?

My answer is no, no, and yes. It all depends on whether I am advertising for customers and receiving substantial income. In the first case, I am receiving no income. In the second, very little. In neither case have I advertised. In the third case, however, I am actively seeking an outlet, I am making substantial income (even if that income is a small percentage of my total income) and am therefore operating a business.

Where we disagree, I believe, is that people tend to barter and trade with one another. It's just part of life. That barter/trade/sell relationship is based on trust and just being a good neighbor. If my neighbor asked to buy a dozen eggs and I had extra, I would sell them to him. Not doing so, in my opinion, would be rude and denying him something without just cause. That does not make me an egg-producing facility. It makes me a good neighbor.

It's a question of degree, and a question of individual control. Not a yes/no referendum on food inspections.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: BlueAjah

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
Would you prefer people are able to sell food without any checks? What happens when someone gets sick? I, for one, am happy that anyone selling food has to pass through hoops.

Oh and REALLY quite pathetic to throw in the Clinton comment. What does she have to do with this?


I think the government should stay out of everyday life.

If someone knowingly buys food from someone not licensed to sell it, then that's their risk and they are taking it knowingly.

If someone wants to buy only from licensed sellers, that's their choice too.

What's going to happen to all of those church Chicken Bakes, and Cake Sales?


Then people should probably stop suing each other, and businesses, for every last freaking thing under the sun. You know damn well there's somebody out there in our wonderfully litigious society that would buy food from somebody off facebook, get sick, and sue them and facebook and everybody else they could think of.

Generally if an adult wants to avoid being nanny-ed, they should avoid doing dumb # that necessitates nanny-ing.



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: Annee

Well Annee I have disagreed with you frequently and vigorously, but I'm glad we have some common ground here. You fascist


Apparently I am also now a left-wing fascist on this topic.


LOL, I've so been called a Fascist.

Those who think 300+ million people should just run amok and do whatever they want - - - are just plain nuts.

I suggest to those people: "Buy an island, start bringing people over, let them do whatever they want - - see how long it lasts."

Even tribes in the remote Rain Forest of Brazil have rules they live by.

When it comes to personal responsibility, I'm far more Right then most would think. "That which is not earned, has no value".



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: PraetorianAZ

originally posted by: mobiusmale

originally posted by: Navieko
Unless she was actually making false/misleading claims regarding the product she's selling, good on her for not folding to the stupid laws that say she has to have a freaking permit to sell food. It's right up there with the other ridiculous bureaucratic/socialist laws that say we can't use certain plants, etc.

If people get sick eating her food, then guess what? They'll stop buying her food. Stop treating people like babies and gtf out of our lives.


What's next, SWAT Teams are going to raid Momma's kitchen at dinner time, to make sure that the roast is being served at the Government-mandated ideal temperature?

Is Grandma going to get busted for not properly sanitizing her kitchen counters?



Whats next is soon they wont let us even cook food in our own homes anymore without classes and a permit. They will say its for our own good and we have to buy precooked food at certain government establishments until we can prove we know how to cook. Im calling it now.


For those who think this is facetious or hyperbole, keep it on file to show your grandchildren how much the world's changed in our time.



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 12:33 PM
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What happened to personal responsibility?

Oh well I'm going down to the corner to buy a bag full of tamales from Mrs Juanita, I'll make sure to ask to see her permit.



posted on Nov, 7 2016 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

And what would you do if one of your loved ones dies after eating one of those tamales? Just say "oh well, sh*t happens - it was my responsibility"? Or will you try to stop Mrs. Juanita from ever selling tamales again?

You know, the seller has a responsibility too - and that is to get licensed and be monitored for food safety.



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