Please, dont vote for her

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: UKTruth

Laws change.

Until it does then it's not murder. Again, it's a legal term with legal meaning.

If the law changed tomorrow, would you change your view?

On whether it's called murder or not? Yes. That's what i've been saying! If abortions are made illegal, then it would no longer be lawful...

Would I change my opinion on supporting the right to choose? No. I would fight alongside other people to make abortions legal again. So women can have a legally sanctioned choice.

I don't change my views on right or wrong based on a govt. telling me what is legal or not.

You're misconstruing things. I didn't say I was basing my morality on what is or isn't currently deemed legal. I was merely pointing out that you were falsely calling it murder in the legal sense....since it's a legal term. That's all.

why translate that to 1%. Make it easier for you?

Does focusing on the %1 make it easier for you?

Right, so ignore laws. When talking to another human being I want to know what they think, not what the law tells them to think, so lets just leave it out of the discussion.

My view is that 7-8k unborn babies past the 20 week mark being aborted per year is a tragedy and reflects poorly about how we value life as human beings.

a reply to: UKTruth

Right. I've broached that. Regardless of the legality of abortions, I strongly feel women should have the right to choose. I draw the line at late term abortions, with the exception of the instances the mother's life is in jeopardy.

That's what I think.

My view is that 7-8k unborn babies past the 20 week mark being aborted per year is a tragedy and reflects poorly about how we value life as human beings.

Let's say hypothetically late term abortions were made illegal. No exceptions. The only abortions that took place are the ones that now take place 90% of the time (so the 13 weeks and under).

At that point are you still against women having the right to those abortions?

Side note: why is it creepy when I use the term 'unborn', but you use it often yourself?

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: payta

Trump stands for change

I find those changes rather terrible. Especially towards women. I can't support the changes he wants. Sorry.

LUNACY,
I'd like to inform you about the comming full moon (closest to the Earth since 1948). You may like this.
Feel free to check this astrological election prediction - Astro-king
What I see there is one mistake - the person who is using fear is not Trump. I like the first comment:

Venus crosses the galactic centre on November 9-10. This is the heart of the feminine, the collective unconscious, which is so manipulated/manipulable, so it’s very profound.

What is the collective unconscious telling us for the last 4 years? Status quo we should fear. And an evil, manipulative queen of the hive making servants, punishing disobedience and pissing masculine world leaders like only women can do - to the point of endless wars, sanctions and famine.

How do you FEEL about it now? Economy and jobs should be first on the list.
One more thing. The Sun makes nothing of the moon. Its light is just a reflection of the Sun which has both positive and negative charge.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: UKTruth

Right. I've broached that. Regardless of the legality of abortions, I strongly feel women should have the right to choose. I draw the line at late term abortions, with the exception of the instances the mother's life is in jeopardy.

That's what I think.

My view is that 7-8k unborn babies past the 20 week mark being aborted per year is a tragedy and reflects poorly about how we value life as human beings.

Let's say hypothetically late term abortions were made illegal. No exceptions. The only abortions that took place are the ones that now take place 90% of the time (so the 13 weeks and under).

At that point are you still against women having the right to those abortions?

Side note: why is it creepy when I use the term 'unborn', but you use it often yourself?

I found the whole "sentient" thing a bit creepy... sorry, not really meant to offend, I just said what was on my mind in reaction to the language, Found it a bit cold for the issue.

My summary view on abortion is (I am not a 'no abortion ever' advocate).
Mid to late term - 2nd semester onwards - should not be acceptable except in certain circumstances relating to a clear danger to the mother.
Early term - allowed, but, also make sure abortion is not marketed as a service. There should be no pressure applied to women just because some clinic wants to make some money, especially on young women to get abortions. I also think more input is required from the father and more education is required to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Pregnancies arising from rape should be treated differently.

This is without talking about the family - which is under threat with too many young people growing up without the right influences.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

BWAAAA,HA,HA,HA,H HEARING a guy talk crap AND SEEING it doesn't excuse HYPOCRYSY of the source it comes from now does it?
HERE we have an ACTUAL groping DNC perve and a civilian Billionaire who 's got a big mouth and is a THREAT to all of this filth but ENJOY yourself at your expense please...

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

First we need to establish astrology and the collective unconscious are real things to begin with. I could tell you that during meditation sessions I get visions from the Universe that Trump is going to destroy the USA. There is as much evidence for that as there is for what you described. None at all.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

You accused me of making things up.

I literally posted a video clip of Trump saying all those things himself. I backed everything I said up.

You were wrong. I made nothing up. I showed that with video proof. Now you're not mature enough to admit you were wrong.

a reply to: UKTruth

Found it a bit cold for the issue.

I understand. I simply don't see it that way.

When we recognize there is the ability to experience life consciously we then feel compassion for their potential suffering. This is why we feel bad if we see a dead dog in the middle of the road and not when vegetables are uprooted from a garden. What's the distinction? Sentience.

Still sound cold?

To me it's all about consciousness. That's the critical element. That's when it starts to become an issue of morality.

There should be no pressure applied to women just because some clinic wants to make some money

Is this a two way street? It's not a conspiracy theory that Catholic hospitals put heavy pressure on women to not have an abortion. In some locations, going to a catholic hospital is the woman's only viable choice without having to drive large distances. I believe John Oliver did a long segment on this earlier this season.

I also think more input is required from the father

This is very problematic. Keep in mind we have been talking about late-term abortions being an issue.

So what happens when agreement between two parties is required before action is taken? What if the man in this scenario says no to the procedure until the third trimester. What if the man never gives consent at all.

This would make that 1% stat go up.

Mid to late term - 2nd semester onwards - should not be acceptable except in certain circumstances relating to a clear danger to the mother.

So we are almost in agreement here. I put the starting point in time to match whatever the neuroscience is telling us in regards to consciousness. If the science later shows it actually starts much much earlier, then my position will change to reflect that.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Yes it does sound less cold, and I am beginning to understand who I am talking with now laws are out of the way

Yes it should be a two way street. Religious guilt should not be fostered or stoked up.

I don't have an answer for the father point. I just think there is not enough involvement.

Agree on the last point.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Actually it is a clear accusation of HYPOCRISY...IT'S ALWAYS EASIER with the cussing...

They screwed Sanders over to get this corrupt lady in office.
Look guys, just choose whoever the hell you think is going to better your lives. But if you do vote for someone who has been part of the establishment, has all the support of TPTB, and is in favour of the same policies of the last 15 years, then dont whine later on if things surprisingly keep going in steady decline.
She supports the TPP for crying out loud!

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Don't worry about your freedom of choice/programmed prison of choice. Trump will be busy doing business with no time to touch it. Once your husband has a better payed job you'll be able to rise a child or two. He's rational. You'll love him.
My spiritual teacher once said that with God's grace you can escape karma. Karma is in the same category and isn't outside nature laws and heavenly bodies' influence so it's rational to take it into account even if you don't believe it.
I'm pretty confident that Cl. is using much more stuff like this. The words she's using are all chosen to program you into fear and loyalty. It's a false moon-light.

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

Once your husband has a better payed job you'll be able to rise a child or two.

Say what? I'm not married. I don't plan on having children.

For others that are married and planning on having children soon, I really don't think the ability to do so hinges on a Trump presidency.

so it's rational to take it into account even if you don't believe it.

The great fire wizard Vevras doesn't support Trump. It's only rational to follow his sage advice, even if you don't believe.

The words she's using are all chosen to program you into fear and loyalty.

I've consistently said on ATS that i'm not pro-hillary, I am anti-Trump.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

no, I subscirbe to the logic that a viable human being is a viable human being and that killing a viable human being is murder. I actually don't think that abortion in the first trimester should be illegal...

Jaden

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy

The words she's using are all chosen to program you into fear and loyalty.

I've consistently said on ATS that i'm not pro-hillary, I am anti-Trump.

Honey, this is all she needs and wanted. Then don't vote. You may deserve her but others don't.

Sorry, I was not following your posts. I think I see you for the first time. )

Please, don't vote for her

I just got back from voting.

There was not a single CLinton sign at the school.

Nada.

NOT ONE.

a reply to: payta

I am not American but if I was, I sure would vote Trump. I was one of the Brexit voters here in the UK and proud to say so. It is odd, that many people that would maybe say to me that Brexit is a bad idea are the same people that are so far brainwashed by the government around them, that they feel the need for a safety net all the time. They felt that being part of the EU was that safety net. It is all propaganda and there is some that seriously buy into it.

Just like America now, people think Hilary is that safety net because she is known and her husband was once in office. However that does not change anything, it just continues whats been occurring for many years now.

I agree with your post here and I would wish there was more free thinkers in this world, people are too quick to deny anything new because they are too comfortable with what they already know.

Anyhow, good to see which side your on

originally posted by: BlackProject
a reply to: payta

I am not American but if I was, I sure would vote Trump. I was one of the Brexit voters here in the UK and proud to say so. It is odd, that many people that would maybe say to me that Brexit is a bad idea are the same people that are so far brainwashed by the government around them, that they feel the need for a safety net all the time. They felt that being part of the EU was that safety net. It is all propaganda and there is some that seriously buy into it.

Just like America now, people think Hilary is that safety net because she is known and her husband was once in office. However that does not change anything, it just continues whats been occurring for many years now.

I agree with your post here and I would wish there was more free thinkers in this world, people are too quick to deny anything new because they are too comfortable with what they already know.

Anyhow, good to see which side your on

You're a patriot and I salute you.

originally posted by: neo96
Please, don't vote for her

I just got back from voting.

There was not a single CLinton sign at the school.

Nada.

NOT ONE.

Nice to hear that, as. It sound promising. Maybe Hilary and her Agenda that everything is going perfectly fine for her is just a farce. Pretty funny to hear that there is no signs at all.

a reply to: UKTruth

Appreciate it pal.

Nice to see it's noticed and thankfully there is more and more people (probably thankfully due to the internet being used so much now) becoming more understanding of the world around them and are realising the bad deal most of us are getting.

No wonder that same government wishes to slowly put constraints on the internet.