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You Can Believe in Jesus Without being a Christian

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posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:41 PM
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"Tolerant"...it is semantics again. There are probably 20 definitions of the word "tolerant" in a big dictionary. If tolerant and compassionate are synonymous, then fine, Jesus was tolerant and compassionate.
He knew where to draw the line and show compassion or rebuke the erring ones. He was compassionate (tolerant) towards the adulteress. He didn't say, "That cannot be tolerated! Stone her!"
But yes he certainly did NOT tolerate other things.

Just semantics.




posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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If we are to assume compasion is the same thing as tolerance, then Jesus was always tolerant. He was disaproving of the prostitue at the well, but His compassion allowed him to still let her drink the living water. He was intolerant of her sin at the same time he was compassionate towards her. Yet another fine example of hate the sin, love the sinner.

To all of you gay hating Christians: Reread that last sentance. You are no better then they are. They may be sinning and not repenting, but Jesus said all sin is seen equally in the eyes of the Lord. I am 100% positive you have at least one sin you may have asked forgiveness for, but never repented. Therefore, you still commit it. I know I have several that I can't seem to shake. If a gay fellah's only sin were being gay, then he'd have a huge leg up on the kingdom of Heaven than I do. Totally off topic, but I felt I should say something since the first part of my post lended its self so well to this.

Rock, rock on,
JJ



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:50 PM
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Yeah, I am in agreement. I believe in Jesus, Krishna, Buddha and also in science, philosophy and extraterrestrials. It is very limiting to confine and commit yourself to a single belief system. There is a whole world of wisdom out there.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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Ok, it's looks like they aren't too well recognized, yet. Apparently most of them are technically Orthodox, but the establishment isn't to big on Yeshua worship. They do seem to have a bit of support in their position from some Jewish scholars though.

The Nazarene's in particular seem the most 'Jewish' (faith-wise). www.nazarene.net... I still think it's a neat concept. Religions evolve, who knows what will be accepted 100 years from now.



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Hehe, well, that's Bart Simpson's plan.


Further proof God's not a bad guy. He let Homer stay home to watch football!

Maybe there is a different 'Heaven' for each faith. That way the more orthodox Christian religions won't be all jealous they put in all these extra hours, and the rest of us are still getting in. If, indeed this is where we go. My mother prays for my soul



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher Catholicism is the basically the original version Christianity before the new testament came along.


no greek orthodox christianity is, constantine made it the official religion of eastern rome(later the byzantine empire).



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 02:27 AM
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From a Biblical stand point, God wanted Paul to do this. That's why He came to him, that's why He blinded him, and that's why He restored his sight. So in that respect, what Paul did is exactly what God wanted to happen.


this all came of course after paul was himself kicked in or dropped on his head,
literally.




From a perspective that discounts the Bible, but still accepts that there is a God above who wants us to know him, how weak would this God turn out to be if He sends His Son/Himself to Earth, and before His throne in Heaven is warm, someone has already hijacked His faith and turned His people away from him. THAT'S a lightning bolt style smiting if I ever heard of one.


This really makes no sense because, From a perspective that discounts the Bible, in all likellyhood would also discount that Jesus was more than a human teacher albeit a very good one.




or else God LIED then, and God doesnt lie.

i believe the arguement is not that the creator by what ever name lied but that the pen through which his words supposedly came was less than trustworthy.





so shove that little preppy talk of equality up your u no what because they belive God said it,


it is no matter if They believe it or not. the rest of your comment was uncalled for , unnecessary and ignorant. you have the right to your beliefs the same as I or anyone does. But no more so.

[edit on 26-1-2005 by stalkingwolf]



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 02:39 AM
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perhaps this will help.

Religious Rivalries

Dear Children (and believe us, that's all of you), We consider ourselves pretty patient folks. For instance, look at the Grand Canyon. It took millions of years to get it right
We've been patient through your fashions, civilizations, wars and schemes.

We want to let you know about some of the things that are starting to tick Us off.

First of all, your religious rivalries are driving Us up a wall. Enough already! Let's get one thing straight: These are YOUR religions, not Ours. We're beyond them all. Every one of your religions claims there is only one of Us (which by the way, is absolutely true). And each claims its scriptures were written personally by us, and that all the other scriptures are man-made. How do We even begin to put a stop to such complicated nonsense?

Okay, listen up now. We're your Father AND Mother, and We don't play favorites among Our children.

Also, We hate to break it to you, but We don't write. Our longhand is awful, and We've always been more of "doers" anyway. So, ALL of your books, including those Bibles, were written by men and women. They were inspired, remarkable people, but they also made mistakes here and there. We made sure of that so that you would never trust a written word more than your own living heart.
You see, one human being to Us, even a bum on the street, is worth more than all the Holy Books in the world. That's just the kind of folks we are. Our spirit is not a historical thing. It's alive right here, right now, as fresh as your next breath.
.
Holy books and religious rites are sacred and powerful, but not more so than the least of you. They were only meant to steer you in the right direction, not to keep you arguing with each other, and certainly not to keep you from trusting your own personal connection with Us.

Which brings Us to Our next point about your nonsense; you act like We need you and your religions to stick up for Us or "win souls" for Our sake. Please, don't do Us any favors. We can stand quite well on our own, thank you. We don't need you to defend Us, and We don't need constant credit. We just want you to be good to each other.

The thing is, We want you to stop thinking of religion as some sort of loyalty pledge to Us.
The true purpose of your religion is so that YOU can become more aware of Us, not the other way around. Believe Us, We know you already. We know what's in each of your hearts, and We love you with no strings attached.
Lighten up and enjoy Us. That's what religion is best for.

What you seem to forget is how mysterious We are.
You look at the petty differences in your Scriptures and say, "Well, if THIS is the truth, then THAT can't be!" But instead of trying to figure out Our Paradoxes and Unfathomable Nature, which by the way, you NEVER will, why not open your hearts to the simple common threads in all religions.
You know what We're talking about. Love and respect everyone. Be kind, even when life is scary or confusing. Take courage and be of good cheer, for We are always with you. Learn how to be quiet, so you can hear Our still, small voice. (We don't like to shout).

Leave the world a better place by living your life with dignity and gracefulness, for you are Our Own Children. Hold back nothing from life, for the parts of you that can die surely will, and the parts that can't, won't.

Simple stuff. Why do you keep making it so complicated? It's like you're always looking for an excuse to be upset. And We're very tired of being your main excuse. Do you think We care whether you call Us: Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Diana, Wakantonka, Brahma, Cerridwen, Father, Mother, God, Goddess or even the Void of Nirvana? Do you think We care which of Our special children you feel closest to, Jesus, Mary, Buddha, Krishna, Gerald, Mohammed or any of the others? You can call Us and Our Special Ones any name you choose, if only you would go about Our business of loving one another as We love you. How can you keep neglecting something so simple?

We're not telling you to abandon your religions. Enjoy your religions, honor them, and learn from them, just as you should enjoy, honor, and learn from your parents.
Know that Our Special Children, the ones that your religions revolve around, all live in the same place, (Our heart), and they get along perfectly, We assure you.

The clergy must stop creating a myth of sibling rivalry where there is none. Our blessed children of Earth, the world has grown too small for your pervasive religious bigotries and confusion. The whole planet is connected by air travel, satellite dishes, telephones, fax machines, rock concerts, diseases, and mutual needs and concerns.
Get with the program! If you really want to help, then commit yourselves to figuring out how to feed your hungry, clothe your naked, protect your abused, and shelter your poor. And just as importantly, make your own everyday life a shining example of kindness and good humor. We've given you all the resources you need, if only you abandon your fear of each other and begin living, loving and laughing together.

We're not really ticked off. We just wanted to grab your attention because We hate to see you suffer.

In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust,

Us



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 05:36 AM
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worldwatcher,

Beautiful post!!!

I'm not sure how to express the myriad of thoughts and ideas that were inspired by your post. So, instead of taking the risk that I may goof it up, I'll just leave it at "Ubiquitously Sublime".


stalkingwolf,

By reading your posts, I can tell that this topic is very well understood and that you are very much in tune with what's being said here. Even better is that you are very much aware of what isn't being said as well and with intuitive & complete comprehension. I'm not aware of what else you've posted on here but I'll be keeping an eye out for your name from now on.

brygivrob,

Just thought I'd compliment you on your "Semantics" comment. I like knowing that there are others out there that easily identify what a profound and many times problematic effect that "Semantics" and "Linguistics" have upon our ability to communicate with one another. Irony is Tragedy!



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 06:01 AM
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My 2 cents on this topic...
I believe in every prophet, everyone of them existed and they interupted what they knew in different ways due to their different beliefs at the time, their culture, and their upbringing. This is what has created the different religions around the world today. One intresting fact though, the three main prophets Jesus, Mohammd, Budda all have time in their history were they disapeard. There is no mention of jesus through his teenage years, mohammed went into a cave and became enlightend, and if memory serves me correct Budda sat under a tree for a long amoutn of time. During all this time in their lives no one knows what they did? Personaly i think they reached a stage in meditation were they spoke to the "higher being" and they all would of been told the same thing, but interupted it in different ways.
Anywho i believe that all religion is the same religion just with different twists in them. Personaly though i think the thoughts and writings of Lao Tzu, is the most purest thought of god.
We need to all come together and realize we are all talking about the same being, its just that we see "it" in different ways. Lets to say there is a object in the middle of a room, and there is four people in each couner of the room, they will all see different angles of the object so their perceptions of it will be different, yet they are all looking at the same object. Yet they claim they have seen it with their own eyes, and will belive no one elses word for it......this is what has caused millions of deaths through-out history. We need to learn that perception is different from one to another.
I know i do alot of christian cashing on this forum, but this is because of the ignorant fanatical christians who wont understand that they are sitting in one corner of the room.



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 08:58 AM
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I go to sleep and wake up to see that this thread has taken on a life of it's own.

Thank you all, I appreciate your shared wisdom. Mahree don't worry about a thread being jacked, I'm not the type of person that would want anyone not to respond because their views don't match mine. All is welcome, like I said, we are all right when it comes to God.

Mahree, JJ, I finally understand what you were trying to say, thanks to the help of others who replied. I apologize for "generalizing" and mislabeling what I considered Catholics and Christians. I understand the doctrine of Christianity, however Stalkingwolf interpreted what I was trying to get across in words I couldn't find. Duzey and Stalkingwolf thank you for understanding for me. Mojom thanks and you're right on target with your comments about the others

My error was generalizing, perhaps if I had explained better the types of Catholicism and Christianity that I have been exposed to instead of labelling them as such, I hope you do admit though to understanding what I was trying to say of the various sects, but non the less the conversation was and is of value to me.

Maybe this will help explain me at bit more, the Anglican church which i attended Sunday School for quite a few years and which to my understanding Anglicans combines both Protestantism and Catholicism. I believe it holds the record or use to hold the record for ltallest wooden building in the world, it is quite beautiful. So what do you consider Anglican's as? closer to Protestant or Catholicism?

St. George's Cathedral
Inside St. George's



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 08:59 AM
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No you can't. If you read the bible you will see that the Lord asked us to do more than believe in him. He said, and I quote, "he who loves mother and father more than me is not whorthy of me." Jesus ask for our whole heart, mind, and soul. He wants our whole allegiance to him. You can't play hop scotch with him. Even in Islam, you can't be a muslim without giving all your allegiance to allah.

I dare you to call youself a muslim, and go to Iran, and call yourself a muslim/ whatever. You will be put to death immediatly. It's more than just believing, it's choosing sides. Read the book of revealation, in the end everyone must choose a side. That's what the mark is for, it's not just believing something or someone, it must be your life. Jesus said he is the bread of life, that means you can't have eternal life without him. Just like you can't live without eating, you can't live without eating Jesus. And by eating him I mean making him a part of you.

Remember you are what you eat.



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
I go to sleep and wake up to see that this thread has taken on a life of it's own.

Thank you all, I appreciate your shared wisdom. Mahree don't worry about a thread being jacked, I'm not the type of person that would want anyone not to respond because their views don't match mine. All is welcome, like I said, we are all right when it comes to God.

Mahree, JJ, I finally understand what you were trying to say, thanks to the help of others who replied. I apologize for "generalizing" and mislabeling what I considered Catholics and Christians. I understand the doctrine of Christianity, however Stalkingwolf interpreted what I was trying to get across in words I couldn't find. Duzey and Stalkingwolf thank you for understanding for me. Mojom thanks and you're right on target with your comments about the others

My error was generalizing, perhaps if I had explained better the types of Catholicism and Christianity that I have been exposed to instead of labelling them as such, I hope you do admit though to understanding what I was trying to say of the various sects, but non the less the conversation was and is of value to me.


Worldwatcher, Thank you for coming back in reply to what I was trying to say. The "generalizing" or "semantics" did bother me so much I couldn't get on with the rest of your post.

Perhaps the problem in understanding my concern is that you or the others are not Catholic Christians. We are all Christians, some Catholic, some Protestants and some Orthodox Eastern Church. I am sorry that I did get off your topic, but it looks to me that it turned out all right and is what you were looking for when you posted.



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 11:27 AM
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here is a thought, we all know (i think ) that English is if not the one of the
most difficult languages to use because of words with same pronunciation
and different spellings , and different pronunciation with same spelling, etc.
next time one of us comes across a situation like this try picturing this.

6 people in a room or on a board like this ( it works better in a room) discussing
a topic like religion or world politics, 1 from Glasgow Scotland, 1 from Newcastle England, 1 from Sydney Australia, 1 from Toronto Canada, 1 from Baton Rouge
Louisanna, and 1 from Hollywood California.
They all speak english right? you could even say they all speak english as a first language.



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 01:17 PM
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stalkingwolf YOU REALLY GET IT!
you really do... if only everyone in the world could be so open to what "god" is...
your main point is a little off the topic of "can you believe in jesus without being a Christian" but goes so much furtherin understanding....

I hope you don't mind that i borrowed some of your statements to use in the future... i assume they were probably "borrowed" by you as well... they were perfect enlightening stories to aid the understanding...

as a former "seeker" i have walked many paths.... and been true to God/spirit in all... the story of "mary anne" really hit home...

If everyone would listen to their heart, and stop quoting so many well intentioned words. Those were written by people long ago, for reasons that were already proven different, than the way they were taken,...

most of the bibles stories are parables... and for a christian, ANY christian to say that they are the only way is like shouting in a mirror...
if so then what about all the other christian interpretations that are the only way?
most of the Christian sects are not recognozed as valid paths by other christian sects... (church of christ, catholic, mennonite, babtist, ect...)
ask any of them if the others will meet them in heaven, and they are likely to give you the hearts answer, instead of the doctrinal answer... the heart says yes, the doctrine says no ...
if only they could apply that heart wisdom to all their beliefs...
I will relate a true story to elaborate

After the death of my mother, my step dad killed himself (fairly common)... My cousin (a devout babtist) was convinced that my step fathers suicide would prevent him from entering heaven. According to church doctrine, that is true...
but just as with all things... their are exceptions to the rule...
My step father was beyond depressed, and mentally ill (had been hospitalized a week before) and was on suicide watch. I would think that God realized the illness within him and recognized that he was not mentally sane... and thereby, my stepfather could claim his great reward...
if not... then that is a shame... i will be sure to correct God on that error later...(god doesn't make mistakes, so i am not worried.)
now many christians will point out that my nephew was correct... and in that case, i would say that THEIR god is not mine... Mine is mine is mine... and so with everyone that should be the case...
a connection to spirit is a deeply personal thing... and should be.
If the heart is left out of religion then we are losing the greatest part...
But once again... stalkingwolf: your words express it so much better than mine



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 06:40 PM
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please feel free to borrow anything i post. knowledge was freely given to me .
it is my obligation to freely pass on that which i have received.


stalkingwolf YOU REALLY GET IT!
you really do... if only everyone in the world could be so open to what "god" is...
your main point is a little off the topic

actually I think it is right on point. if you can follow what the 2 letters are saying
and can see that all dieties are one just different names or aspects of the same
being , then there is no reason you cannot believe Jesus' teachings* and not subscribe to the dogma of the church. ( NOTE * Jesus' teachings not Jesus' teachings as related by...)




Remember you are what you eat.


If you are a follower of Jesus this is contrary to his teaching.

[edit on 26-1-2005 by stalkingwolf]



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by stalkingwolf
please feel free to borrow anything i post. knowledge was freely given to me .
it is my obligation to freely pass on that which i have received.


stalkingwolf YOU REALLY GET IT!
you really do... if only everyone in the world could be so open to what "god" is...
your main point is a little off the topic

actually I think it is right on point. if you can follow what the 2 letters are saying
and can see that all dieties are one just different names or aspects of the same
being , then there is no reason you cannot believe Jesus' teachings* and not subscribe to the dogma of the church. ( NOTE * Jesus' teachings not Jesus' teachings as related by...)




Remember you are what you eat.


If you are a follower of Jesus this is contrary to his teaching.

[edit on 26-1-2005 by stalkingwolf]


What comes out of a man is what defiles him not what goes in. I know , I know. But he also said that whoever eats of his flesh and drinks of his blood has eternal life. John 6:53 The jews thought he meant literally, but he was talking about accepting his sacrifice on the cross for sins. So what you are talking about is from a physical standpoint, I'm coming from a spiritual standpoint.

Remeber that the Lord always said to partake or eat him because he is the Living bread, or mana which gives life eternal. So spiritually we must acept his sacrifice and have faith in him to recieve salvation. So in closing I was talking about spiritually not physically.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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The big point that you guys are missing, and by the way I feel what you are saying, is that God is a who, not just a what. God is a person, not energy. God thinks, albeit on a way higher scale than us, God feels emotion, God communicates, and he creates with just a thought.

The whole point of the bible is God relating to us in a way that we finite beings can understand an infinite being. The thing we have to get over is samantics. We know that the people who wrote it had a different style of speach and writing than we have today. They had fads and slang back then too. So we have to figure out how to correctly translate the wording of the past writters.

Thats where paleontology kicks in, and helps us to realize how things where in a certain time period. But you can't be too careful with these things, as humans we are quick to jump to conclusions of what a certain thing meant, and put it in a box lock and key. As far as the bible goes, this is where faith comes into play. You must put your faith in the fact that God id immutable, and that the bible is divinely inspired. Meaning that the people who put the pen to the paper was lead but God for every drop of ink that touched the papyrus, or sheep skin or whatever.

Know as far as other holy books goes, if it is the same God who is directing all the writings of these books, then he's either a scitzo or he's an evil person trying to confuse everyone in the world. Which both of those statements directly attack his immutability, holiness, and righteousness. The fact remains that none of these books/ideals actually agree wholeheartedly with each other.

They agree on a point here and there maybe, but a book isn't just one statement, it's a sum of ideas that come together to paint one picture. And the pictures just aren't the same, from every book and the ideals behind them.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 11:22 AM
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God is a person, not energy.

so then there is no way that your God or definition of God can be the force,
the spirit that inhabits, exists in all creation?



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by stalkingwolf



God is a person, not energy.

so then there is no way that your God or definition of God can be the force,
the spirit that inhabits, exists in all creation?


Force and energy are two different things stalkingwolf. You can use energy as a force but energy is not a force. What do you mean by exist in all creation? Are you saying everything is God and God is everything, or that God is everywhere? I agree with the second but not the first. God is the force that keeps this universe and everything in it together(including energies), but he is not some cloud of energy that's occupying the universe, he is a spirit.

Now, I can't tell you the nomenclature of a spirit, but I can say that God never refered to himself as energy, power maybe, but not energy.



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