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You Can Believe in Jesus Without being a Christian

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posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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Not only can you believe in Jesus without being a Christian, You can also believe in Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Brahma, Shakti, Devi without being of any particular religious persuasion.

I am really getting tired of all this religious bickering among humans. It bewilders me that more people cannot open their eyes and see that you can accept a philosophy, be tolerant and understand a philosophy without becoming or needing the religious name tag associated with it.

Look at Hinduism, it believes in One Supreme Being, yet it understands that humans need to see "God" in a way they can relate to, so a myriad of avatars are available for worshippers. The same can be said on a broader scale, if you believe in any "God" you will acknowledge his/her complexity and unmeasurable power, you will also acknowledge that every creature in this universe is a creation of "God". So how can you not accept that "God" portrayed himself in various ways to give his message to his creations. Imagine a circle with God in the center, you can approach him/her in any direction. The key to remember here, is that while there is only One God, there is uncountable paths that lead to him. No message hold more importance or significance than another, no religion is better than another. Man has corrupted the true philosophy of religion to further their own gains. As long as you follow the tenets of being a good person and the basics in regards to morals that most religions agree on, you are on the right path. You do not need ritualized worship, but if it makes you feel good, then that's the path for you. You can be an atheist and still find "God" in the end. You do not need to believe in God, if it doesn't fit your life. Just live a good life and in your next, perhaps you will no longer see the need to be an atheist.

It is time we all open our eyes and see that no one is right and no one is wrong when it comes to religious persuasion. In this life I may be a Hindu, but in my last I could have been a Christian and maybe in the next I will a Muslim. We are born into different religions or influenced by circumstances outside ourselves that cultivate what religion we choose to practice. But inside we are all the same, we are human, with a intelligence we don't yet fully understand or are quite capable of comprehending as of yet.

I was born a Hindu, I practiced hinduism most of my life, but I was also baptised in a church twice, once as a Catholic and once as a Christian, blessed and saved by a muslim mejji, shared Hannukah prayers with my Jewish friends, I see the beauty and truth in all religions. In my own family I can find the full spectrum of religious beliefs and non beliefs, yet we are related by blood. I see the fundamental message that "God" gave us all, I only wish all of humanity could see the same thing I see.

Maybe then we will realize it is not our duty to cast judgement, convert or distance ourselves from others due to the tag of religion. Maybe we will realize religion is a personal thing and can finally work towards understanding how much we are alike instead of looking at our differences.
Remember the "God in I" and start within, you will no longer need to look at others and what they believe in.

sorry for preaching, but it wasn't meant to be a sermon of any kind, just something I have always wanted to say.




posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:22 AM
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I am not Christian but I believe he existed...I don't believe he is a messiah or son of a god though.
EDIT: I wanted to add that I also believe the original scroll that the bible was taken from (but not kept in their original form) has real insights for mankind concerning faith, and living well.

[edit on 1/25/2005 by LadyV]



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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I asked a friend who is Jewish about Jesus once, and she told me that her faith does acknowledge his historical existense, just that he is not, as LadyV said, the messiah. Seemed like a pretty logical answer to me.

Excellent post, and should be required reading for anyone who is going to post in Conspiracies in Religions.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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You have voted worldwatcher for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
Not only can you believe in Jesus without being a Christian, You can also believe in Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Brahma, Shakti, Devi without being of any particular religious persuasion.


I was born a Hindu, I practiced hinduism most of my life, but I was also baptised in a church twice, once as a Catholic and once as a Christian,

Did you make a mistake in indicating that Catholics are not Christian? If you believe that Catholics are not Christian I would really be interested in your explanation as to what we are. I am Catholic and I am a Christian. If you deny that please tell me why.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 12:25 PM
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I don't think she was saying that catholics and christians are not the same thing... I just think that she sees that catholics are a large specific portion of christians and should not be just "shuffled into a general term"

I believe the whole point of the proposal is that people are too defensive of their own beliefs instead of respecting others beliefs as we would have them respect ours...

there is never a chance of conversion without respect...
so in essence (comment if i am incorrect worldwatcher) if we all keep a respectful openess to all religions then we are not denying our own faith, we are merely helping to establish a world tolerant to all good faiths. allowing that others might be open to learn from us ...(and we from them)

did i get the gist? I think so... I feel personally that religion can be the greatest force for good, if tolerant...
but if fanatic or fundamental in nature, then it is the greatest cause of wars...
so we need to use our religion well and perpetuate peace... not promote wars of intolerance...

along these lines... (and i don't want this to spin into flaming certain religions)
Any religion that preaches intolerance to others... needs to be dispensed with... or at least the scriptures or chapters that preach "killing people of other gods" should be removed... and kept only as history lessons that teach us what NOT to do.... it is the "golden rule of religions" respect others religions as you would have them respect yours...



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 01:53 PM
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Lazarus, you certainly got the gist it


Mahree I wasn't trying to seperate Catholics from Christians, just making a point that I was baptized in both a Catholic cathedral and a Christian church.

While the basis for Catholicism and Christianity is generally the same, you must admit that they are differences between the two sects. Catholicism is the basically the original version Christianity before the new testament came along. The same applies to the various branches such as Protestant, Mormon etc. Another difference noted about Christianity and Catholicism is that Catholicism pays reverence to saints and Mary, while Christianity is more geared towards Jesus.

here info regarding the differences between the sects:
The difference between Catholicism and Christianity



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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Amen and thank you worldwatcher!

From a Pagan Unitarian who believes in the existance of the biblical teacher Jesus as well as other enlightened teachers.


Unitarian motto:

We need not think alike to love alike.

Creed:

Affirming the inherit worth and dignity of every individual.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
Lazarus, you certainly got the gist it


Mahree I wasn't trying to separate Catholics from Christians, just making a point that I was baptized in both a Catholic cathedral and a Christian church.

While the basis for Catholicism and Christianity is generally the same, you must admit that they are differences between the two sects. Catholicism is the basically the original version Christianity before the new testament came along.

You are correct in thinking that it all did begin with the Catholic Church.

Then you have a few mistakes.

The BIG mistake is that " Catholicism is basically the original version of Christianity before the new testament came along." There was no Christianity before Jesus. The New Testament begins with Jesus and it is through Jesus that we are Christians. Jesus was Jewish. The new religion He began was Christianity.

In the year 1517 a monk named Martin Luther posted his "95 theses" on the door of Wittenberg Church. And that was the beginning of the Reformation and Protestants. The many other Protestants sects branched off from this one. Martin Luther was protesting abuse in the Catholic Church and the abuse of selling indulgences.

I think maybe tolerance of someone's religion might be helped if we shared facts instead of rumors and myths. We do not worship the saints or Mary either.

If you have been to a Catholic Mass you must know that the whole Mass is built around Jesus. His Word, His Body, Blood and Divinity.

So..I don't see how you can say that Mary and the Saints are put before Jesus.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
It is time we all open our eyes and see that no one is right and no one is wrong when it comes to religious persuasion.


Well, I agree you can believe in Jesus without being a Christian. There is plenty of evidence that he was alive in those times and was, in fact, crucified. However, you can't believe in Christ and believe in everyone else's beliefs. If Jesus Christ is not the Son of God, then he is a liar, a hypocrite, and should be cast to the side of the road like a cigarette butt. He said you can come to the Father through Him alone. How could I believe that and believe everyone else's religion, too? I would be a complete hypocrite.

So yes, you can "believe" in the teachings of Jesus and try to live by them, but you cannot be a Christian and believe in other Gods as well. However, the teachings of Jesus, if He's not the Christ, are a bunch of smoke blown up your ... He would have been the consumate liar. "Everybody get along" as a teaching isn't Christ's alone, either. You could "worship" the teachings of Rodney King, too.

I would like to point out, though, that in your post, WW, you were telling everyone else their faith was wrong and that they should agree with yours. Reread it and prove me wrong
Just found that amusing and wanted to share



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 04:44 PM
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JJ huh???

I'm missing something here or you are


Mahree, I'm sorry but I'm not here to discuss Christianity versus Catholicism when it's own followers seems unable to agree on what exactly their differences and similiarities are.


So..I don't see how you can say that Mary and the Saints are put before Jesus.

I did not. what I said was that Catholics pay reverence to Saints and Mary, while Christians do not.

and this?


The BIG mistake is that " Catholicism is basically the original version of Christianity before the new testament came along." There was no Christianity before Jesus. The New Testament begins with Jesus and it is through Jesus that we are Christians. Jesus was Jewish. The new religion He began was Christianity


What are you saying, You just repeated exactly what I said, that Catholicism was the original version, then Christianity arose after the new testament?

[edit on 1-25-2005 by worldwatcher]



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Mahree
In the year 1517 a monk named Martin Luther posted his "95 theses" on the door of Wittenberg Church. And that was the beginning of the Reformation and Protestants.


Much of the groundwork for Luthers theses was laid in Desiderius Erasmus's work Enchiridion Militis Christiani or Manual of the Christian Gentleman and Ecclesiastes or Gospel Preacher. Just thought I'd contribute to religious tolerance and historical accuracy.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 04:53 PM
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ww,

I think it's just a metter of semantics, that's all. I think what Mahree is trying to say is that it would be more accurate to say Catholics are Christians who pay reverence to saints, because they believe in Jesus too. Catholics were the original Christians.

[edit on 25-1-2005 by Duzey]



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 04:58 PM
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thanks Duzey


semantics seems to do it all the time. My point as I stated before was not to comment in anyways about Christianity or Catholicism except to say I was baptized as both. I know they both believe in the Holy Trinity and Jesus and are very much alike, but from conversations with both Christians and Catholics that I have had, I have found that they also have fundamental differences whether some of you choose to admit it or not.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 05:07 PM
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Oh yeah, huge differences. My grandfather and aunt were both Protestant ministers, so I can say with confidence about the only thing they have in common is they are both considered Christian.

Protestants do not believe in rituals, revering anyone other than Jesus or God, no Pope, just a lot of singing and praying, with the occasional sermon thrown in. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

My grandfather used to say 'Protestants talk straight to God, Catholics have to go through the Pope'.
This is because Protestants believe that every man who worships God is a minister, in that they can spread the word of God and speak with him directly through prayer. I'm not really a Christian anymore, but I was immersed in it when I was younger.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by worldwatcher
It is time we all open our eyes and see that no one is right and no one is wrong when it comes to religious persuasion.


Well, I agree you can believe in Jesus without being a Christian. There is plenty of evidence that he was alive in those times and was, in fact, crucified. However, you can't believe in Christ and believe in everyone else's beliefs. If Jesus Christ is not the Son of God, then he is a liar, a hypocrite, and should be cast to the side of the road like a cigarette butt. He said you can come to the Father through Him alone. How could I believe that and believe everyone else's religion, too? I would be a complete hypocrite.

So yes, you can "believe" in the teachings of Jesus and try to live by them, but you cannot be a Christian and believe in other Gods as well. However, the teachings of Jesus, if He's not the Christ, are a bunch of smoke blown up your ... He would have been the consumate liar. "Everybody get along" as a teaching isn't Christ's alone, either. You could "worship" the teachings of Rodney King, too.

I would like to point out, though, that in your post, WW, you were telling everyone else their faith was wrong and that they should agree with yours. Reread it and prove me wrong
Just found that amusing and wanted to share


I don't think it's necessary for people to believe in other religions, but at least they should respect the other religions.

As for Jesus being the Son of God, in Hinduism, that would not be a point of contention, since everyone is said to be a son of God or an expansion of God in Hinduism. Of course, his claim to being the SINGULAR son of God would be ignored by most Hindus. My mother prays to Christ along with many deities, Rama, Krishna, Sai Baba (Shirdi), Agnel Baba, Amba, Lakshmi, and so on.

My viewpoint on all of this is that prayers to any particular person isn't the key to finding God. These religious figures may have existed at one time to spread their version of the Truth, and religions were formed around them, but the action of praying to them essentially gives the same effect (eventually) to all who pray with sincere devotion to their God. Prayer in Hinduism is considered as a form of pranayama, a way for you to connect with the higher Self. It's a form of meditation, and there is no constraint upon the individual as to which deity to pray to.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
JJ huh???

I'm missing something here or you are


Mahree, I'm sorry but I'm not here to discuss Christianity versus Catholicism when it's own followers seems unable to agree on what exactly their differences and similiarities are.

I can understand why you do not want to discuss this subject. You were hoping to make a statement and not be questioned about it. It is the simplest thing in the world to know what Catholics believe. It is all written down in one book for all Catholics. That book is the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I suggest you get a copy if you want to tell us about our religious beliefs.

I still don't understand why you continue to make a difference between Catholics and Christians. Mary is the Mother of God. Not all of the branches of protestants believe that. Catholic Christians do believe that we should honor the Mother of God. I cannot speak for Protestants beliefs.


and this?

this is a copy and paste of what you said.


While the basis for Catholicism and Christianity is generally the same, you must admit that they are differences between the two sects. Catholicism is the basically the original version Christianity before the new testament came along.


You said that there was Christianity called Catholicism before the new testament. There was no Christianity before the new testament. there fore Catholicism began with Jesus.

I believe that tolerance would begin if you stopped making the assumption that Catholics are not Christian. Or else at least give me your basis for your statements.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
JJ huh???


lol Totally missed that until I read it in Mahree's quote. What part of it caused the "huh"?

Mahree, what gives you the idea some Protestants don't believe Mary is the mother of Christ? It's pretty clear in the Gospel...

As to this whole Catholic v. Christian arguement, lemme weigh in as a born again evangelical Christian. Fundamentally, there is no difference between Catholics and the rest of the sects of Christianity. WW, you need to understand what makes someone a Christian. It's not doctrine, it's not living the life, it's not praying, it's believing that Jesus Christ came to this earth to die for our sins and be our salvation in our hearts, minds, and whole being. Catholics are simply another sect of Christianity with their own doctrine. It happens that I disagree with some of their doctrine, which is why I don't follow that sect of Christianity, but we all have the same book. Different translations, but it's still the same book.

Now, before Christ came to this world, Christianity didn't exist. Catholicism being a sect of Christianity, this would mean it didn't exist yet either. Look at the word: Christianity. How could it exist without a Christ? Christianity began as a sect of Judiasm in the first century. Some time in the third century a group of people got together and established some rules for the message Christ preached, collected accounts from eye witnesses and Luke, and made them into an addendum to the Tora. It was at this point Christianity was removed from Judiasm, and the begining of the Roman Catholic Church. They were it as far as a major sect of Christianity until the middle ages. Then there were some divisions based on interpretation and doctrine. NEver was the core message, Jesus Christ is the son of God and came to this world to save this world, been questioned or changed by a legitimate sect of Christianity (with the possible exception of Mormans, but I know little and the only reason I say that is because I read some propoganda against them once. It could very well be false.)



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 06:08 PM
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ok, people
Mahree is correct that it is important to remain factual... but enlighten, don't critisize... the purpose is that if we are respectful enough to each others beliefs, then we can understand them better and be educated into the knowledge of the religion...

the purpose is to see if we can make a better way in life by mutual respect...

or shall we call down the pale riders and call for the begining of the religious war... where everyone will fight for his god, and the best god wins? nope

every christian sect can claim to be the "one" and all others invalid
what they all need to realize is that this has to be a world that allows lots of "others" because in a way... they too are an "other"

In fact, every religion on earth could claim that it is the only one and that all others must die or be converted... the point is NOT TO claim it...
the only way anyone here can convince anyone else of anything religiously is to admit that they too must be respectful enough to listen to a different (but perhaps just as valid) way

Christians...realize that there is only ONE god... but many names from many languages... and many translations... and interpretations...
even Vishnu is a translation of "GOD" and all the other pantheon of hindu dieties are merely symbols, that suit different caste levels. (or other differential level)
There are many universal truths if you seek them...
perhaps this was Gods way of being available to the whole world (as the bible and most every other religious text promises us) maybe the different cultures of the world required god to offer so many diferent names/interpretations for itself... so that the world would have this offer of god.. (maybe the tower of babel is still causing problems)

maybe one size of god doesn't fit all? and isn't god powerful enough to have realized that?

maybe that is the reason that prayer seems to work equally well in all religion... I have heard of miracles in most... (except seems to also be related to devoutness level)

these are my observations... i am a christian who has been a buddist and a wiccan at different points in life... i have never dropped my belief in Jesus... Although my understanding of him changed thru time... I have come full circle... but would have never found the truth of my belief, unless i had traveled these other paths...

and for the record...jesus, buddha and Vishnu would have gotten along wonderfully... talked without arguement, discussed without incident... and compared notes... why can't we?



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by Mahree
I can understand why you do not want to discuss this subject. You were hoping to make a statement and not be questioned about it.


Not at all, we can discuss my statement, but I think you're nit picking here with the "semantics" I'm not getting it? give me a day to reread your words several times, maybe i'll understand the issue



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